Help - Need information for wiring for an AGP

[hudson.bh]

Will be a new pool owner shortly, just purchased an 18' AGP that will just fit in the flat section in our yard. I need some assistance\information for wiring an outlet for the pump.
The pool store stated I needed to wire for a 15 amp breaker. Is this sufficient or would a 20 amp breaker be better? Will I need a GFCI breaker or are twistlock outlets available as GFCI?
What type of wire is best to run in conduit? Does everyone have a switch, timer or both? I also need to bond the pool (wire from the pump housing to the pool?)

The pump will be a 1 hp pump with a 100 pound sand filter. The total run from the box will be about 50'-60'. Our local code stated the outlet must not be within 5' of the water.


I already have a conveinence outlet underneath our deck. I have wired runs for outlets, lights, etc. in our home so I have the basic knowledge required. Would I be better off attempting a DYI or calling an electrician (anyone have an idea what the wiring install would cost)?

Thanks in advance for your help!

Ben

[Poconos]

Welcome to the forum. First comment is the 1 HP pump is way too oversized for the 100# sand filter no matter what the motor rating. Full or uprated. You don't say if the motor is 120 or 240 V. If it's 120 the 15 amp breaker would be marginal and I'd go to 20. The running current on a 1 HP is around 7 amps at 240. I'd also go with a GFI breaker. For the 60' run with #12 the total resistance is about 0.2 ohms so at 7 amps you would drop about 1.4 volts. No big deal. Go with #12. Electricians speak their own language. I'm not an electrician. As for the types of wire suitable for conduit, ordinary romex should suffice since it won't be exposed to dirt or dampness. As for a timer, the mechanical types can be used as a switch too but I'd put in a separate switch to keep the pump off if you desire.
Now...a word of warning. I hate codes. Whatever I said above may be overridden by local and national codes. I don't know what they are. I've given practical info above as a DIYer myself who lives in an area where even pool fences aren't required. People do have them though to keep the big critters out.
I'm feeling a little whacky tonight but seriously, check your codes and follow them. Oh, that pump/filter sizing should be addressed further.
Al
PS: OK Carl, Chastise me about codes.

[Watermom]

Just to give you some perspective on pump/filter sizes: I have a 24 ft AG and I have a 1/2 hp pump and a 200 lb. sand filter. I agree with Poconos. Your pump and filter are mismatched. A pump that is too powerful for a filter can damage it. I'd take it back and get a smaller pump and a larger filter.

[BigTallGuy]

If any one out there is a licensed Electrician, Please feel free to chime in. I am not a licensed Electrician.

The only thing I want to caution you about is running Romex through Conduit. In most cases, it is a no-no for two reasons. 1) Even if you use 3/4 or 1 inch conduit, you will have a mountain of trouble getting the #12/2 with Ground Romex thru the conduit around the bends and turns. 2) Is Heat. When an electrical circuit is overloaded, the wires get hot and can melt the insulation. When the wires get too hot, they can ignite the insulation and result in a fire. The copper wires do not burn, it is the insulation that burns. Romex inside of conduit does not disipate heat as well individual strands. Three individual strands of #12 wire may cost a couple of bucks more than Romex but it is worth it for safety.

Any Hardware Store or Electrical Supply House will have 12 gauge wire in Individual strands in Red or Black, White, and Green colors. Always always always install one, and only one Ground Fault Circuit Interupter (GFCI) in the Curcuit. You can install a GFCI Breaker in the Breaker Panel OR a GFCI Recepticle in the Outlet box, one or the other, never both. Two GCFI's in a single circuit will fight each other, continually trip each other, and will cause nothing but trouble for you. I also recommend a water proof Outlet box with an approved cover.

For a 60 foot run, 12 gauge wire with a 20 amp Circuit Breaker is minimum, adequate, but minimum. If at all possible, run a dedicated line, meaning, there are no other outlets on the line from the breaker panel to the final GFCI Outlet, and I don't see a need for a switch in the circuit. A 15 amp circuit is too small and could cause pre-mature pump motor failure.

I strongly recommend hiring a Licensed Electrician and get a building permit.

Just trying to help! BTDG

[CarlD]

In most areas, if you are supposed to an electrical building permit and you don't, your HO insurance won't cover an accident.

It's a false economy.

With your run, you may even go to #10 wire. Plus you should absolutely go with a GFCI breaker--that protects the whole circuit, not just the outlet. Again, the $20 or $30 more is cheap insurance.

There is also available ground contact wire which does not, I believe, require conduit. It's designed for wet and outdoor environments where the outer sheath is molded around the inner conductors, not just a shell around them.

Electricians do this stuff all the time--it's a regular part of their business. Find a good one.

BTW, Poconos and W'mom are spot-on about the pump and filter.

[Poconos]

That wire you refer to is UFB underground direct burial. That's what I've used. I also use #12 out to the poolhouse and that run is over 100' from the main breaker panel.
Al

[hudson.bh]

I wanted to thank everyone for the advice! I am going to go to the place I bought the pool and talk with them about downsizing the pump (from the 1hp). The pump came as part of a package and I am suprised that they are including an oversized pump.

I am also going to call an electrician (no insurance issues), its better to be safe than sorry.

[Watermom]

Definitely don't need bigger than a 1/2 hp pump. And, I'd go for at least a 200# filter.

[CarlD]

While a bigger filter is better as Lisa says, with a 1/2 hp pump a 150# filter should easily be sufficient if cost is a concern.

[moose364]

Like CarlD said think about going with the 10awg wire, not only will it be safe insurance, but when you get ready to add that pool light are any other thing. there will be no worries about the load on your wiring.

[BigTallGuy]

Ditto on the 10 gauge wire. When any electric Motor starts, it requires an initial spike of electricity to start the motor. Once the motor is turning, the amperage draw is much less. This initial spike can trip the breaker if the curcuit is too small. That is one reason why a curcuit that is too long or too small amperage rating will not work properly. As I stated in my original post, a 12 gauge curcuit with a 20 amp breaker is adequate, However, a 10 gauge curcuit with a 30 amp breaker is better. There are 30 amp GFCI breakers available for just about all the different electrical panels. Excellent decision on contacting a Licensed Electrician. Do not let the Electrician talk you out of getting the Building Permit to save money.

[hudson.bh]

Thanks again for all the support and information. I went back to the pool store today and upsized the sand filter to a 200lb filter (from the 100lb). I also changed the pump from a 1hp to a 3/4hp hayward. I asked about the 1/2 hp pump and they said they did not carry any.

On the electric I am going to start calling around for pricing on the install (anyone have any ideas on what is a fair price for the 12 guage 20amp or 10 guage 30 amp breaker install?). The pool company is a little behind so my pool will not be installed until the beginning of July. I will be getting a permit and the wiring has to be inspected by an independent 3rd party. All the other codes are not that bad (10' from the property line, twistlock outlet and the outlet has to be 5' away from the water itself).

Ben

[Watermom]

That pump/filter size is a much better match. Glad that worked out and that we were able to alert you of the potential mismatch problems before you already had it installed and it was too late to do anything about it. I'll let somebody else address your installation/electric questions.

Bet you can't wait to get the pool up and running!!!

[BigTallGuy]

Thanks again for all the support and information. I went back to the pool store today and upsized the sand filter to a 200lb filter (from the 100lb). I also changed the pump from a 1hp to a 3/4hp hayward. I asked about the 1/2 hp pump and they said they did not carry any.

On the electric I am going to start calling around for pricing on the install (anyone have any ideas on what is a fair price for the 12 guage 20amp or 10 guage 30 amp breaker install?). The pool company is a little behind so my pool will not be installed until the beginning of July. I will be getting a permit and the wiring has to be inspected by an independent 3rd party. All the other codes are not that bad (10' from the property line, twistlock outlet and the outlet has to be 5' away from the water itself).

BenThe cost will depend on a lot of things, mainly your location. I would call or visit local Electrical supply stores or hardware stores and ask the question. I am sure most of those businesses will have lists of Electrical contractors that are more than willing to give you free quotes. Free works so don't be afraid to get multiple quotes.

Copper wire has seen a roller coaster of price changes in the last few years so a quick visit to the hardware store you give you enough current price info to at least estimate the material costs. GFCI breakers can get pricey.

As previously stated there is Direct Bury Romex that does not require conduit, as well as plastic, and underground rated flex conduit. I would discuss all of these options with your contractor. The costs will ultimately depend on how you decide to install the curcuit, and how much labor is involved in trenching etc.