Switching from Chlorine to Salt

[kmmlangston]

Hello, All ~
Thanks to everyone who has posted answers to my questions in the Chlorine and water chemistry forum. We are new pool owners of a 15,000 gal, concrete, IG, fully screened, solar heated pool in Florida. We have a chlorine pool at this time and are considering switching to salt. My questions are:
1. Are there different kinds of salt generators? One better than others?
2. Have you switched from Chlorine to salt? What was the process?

I have not done a lot of research because I figured I would start here to narrow things down first! This is a great place to start with wonderful information. Thanks so much in advance.
Best,
Kelly

[Pool Master]

Your pool will be a "Chlorine pool" even if you decide to get a salt generator. A salt generator converts salt into chlorine. You could buy A LOT of chlorine for the price of the generator alone. Then figure in the cost of installation and you could have enough money invested that you could have paid for a top notch service for a couple of years or do it yourself and save even more. You also have to remember that the salt cost money and is close to the same amount if not more than using chlorine. I would never recommend a salt generator mainly because now you swim in salt water (YUK) which you can taste and feel on your skin. And it is NOT cost effective at all. My advice is spend some money on a big DE filter and have the best water around!

my answers to your questions.....

1. Yes there are different generators and I am sure there are some that last longer than others or some that outperform others. But, they are all expensive and they all break at some point.

2. I have seen a few switch to salt generators. They spent big money buying the equipment and having it installed. Then when they broke they either paid big money AGAIN or went back to the right way of doing the pool.

[Torontonian]

Your pool will be a "Chlorine pool" even if you decide to get a salt generator. A salt generator converts salt into chlorine. You could buy A LOT of chlorine for the price of the generator alone. Then figure in the cost of installation and you could have enough money invested that you could have paid for a top notch service for a couple of years or do it yourself and save even more. You also have to remember that the salt cost money and is close to the same amount if not more than using chlorine. I would never recommend a salt generator mainly because now you swim in salt water (YUK) which you can taste and feel on your skin. And it is NOT cost effective at all. My advice is spend some money on a big DE filter and have the best water around!

my answers to your questions.....

1. Yes there are different generators and I am sure there are some that last longer than others or some that outperform others. But, they are all expensive and they all break at some point.

2. I have seen a few switch to salt generators. They spent big money buying the equipment and having it installed. Then when they broke they either paid big money AGAIN or went back to the right way of doing the pool.

"the right way of doing the pool"? Wow, if Chlorine was oil, you sound like Exxon.

Once you swim in a salt water pool, you will wish you switched the first day you got the pool.

[Poolsean]

Thanks Torontonian...well said.

Pool Master, are you in the pool service industry by any chance?

First, most do not taste the salinity in the water. AND BY NO MEANS IS IT SEA WATER concentration (as implied by your "YUK" response). Most will comment that the salt water feels better on their skin than a non salted pool. Although some will also say that they don't feel a difference.


There are different types of systems, depending on if you're looking for basic salt chlorinators, inbetween, or bells and whistles (automation with regards to your chlorine and pH levels; pump control; remote interface, etc).
Then you have several model cells to choose from, within each manufacturer's offerings. The larger the cell, the more chlorine you can produce and the longer the cell will last. There is a cost with replacement cells when they wear out. Typically this is around 10,000 hours of operation. For So Florida and our 12 month seasons, this is about 3-5 years...I live in Coral Springs, FL.

Other than the initial cost of the system, your ongoing cost is very inexpensive. Replenish the salt and stabilizer when levels drop, which would be due to water loss from bather splashout, bathing suit dragout, filter backwashing (if you have a DE or Sand filter), rain fall overflow, and leaks. On a residential pool, this may be 2 -3 bags a year of salt. A bag of salt is anywhere from $5 - $10.

What's needed to convert your chlorine pool? Add the salt clorine generator equipment and salt directly into the pool. Depending on what your current salt level is (which may already have salt from bleach (sodium hypochlorite) usage. If your pool is new, or freshly refilled water, 50 lbs/2000 gallons gets you to 3000 ppm. This is the typical salt level for most systems offered in the US. Imported Australian systems run a bit higher in salinity.
You will still need to test your chlorine and pH levels, and adjust them as needed.

As stated, using a salt chlorine generator does not make your pool a salt pool, or a chlorine free pool. You're simply making your own chlorine, on site, and eliminating the need to have to run to the store to pick up chemicals week after week. It also creates a big convenience factor to maintaining your pool, giving you more time to enjoy it.

I DO WORK FOR AUTOPILOT CHLORINE GENERATOR SYSTEMS, www.autopilot.com, so you can take my response with a "grain of salt" as a salt industry rep.
Hope I've been unbiased.

[JasonLion]

I switched to a SWG a few years ago and love it. The "conversion" is simply installing the SWG and adding salt, done. I can even use bleach and turn off the SWG any time I want, and I do that when opening in the spring and when shocking the pool (which isn't often). Other than using the SWG to produce chlorine, I'm BBB all the way.

I've done comparisons of the total costs of the SWG vs bleach and they all come out more or less even. Depending on what you count as part of the SWG expenses, and what you don't count, it can go either way. Having a SWG is way less work and it makes going away for the weekend much simpler. I'd be willing to pay more for that, but I don't have to.

[CarlD]

PoolMaster:

You are entitled to your opinions but please do not state them as facts. You may wish to argue these points in "The China Shop"--that's what it's there for.

I have done the same arithmetic as you regarding the cost of installing an SWG system and came to a similar conclusion: That I could not justify the cost of the system.

HOWEVER, many, many of our members have them and love them and, for them, the CONVENIENCE is well-worth the cost. Nor have they complained about the salt in the water creating any problem. Your statement about that is simply inaccurate. Correct salt levels for SWGs do not create a salty taste or leave you feeling briny the way sea water does.

Since Salt Water Generators generate chlorine they are well within what we, at Pool Forum, consider "the right way of doing the pool". I would never state that using an SWG is "wrong" or a "bad" way to maintain a pool. There is nothing about an SWG that is incompatible with our philosophy expressed as the B-B-B method of pool maintenance.

[waterbear]

I will grant that the upfront costs of installing a swg are high but the ease of maintenance once installed is priceless. My pool practically takes care of itself. The trick is a GOOD test kit and PROPER water balance. For a SWG I have found that keeping the salt at recommended level or slightly above, CYA at MAXIMUM recommended level (usually 80 or 100 ppm), FC at 3-5 ppm, pH at 7.6 (and not lower!), uncorrected TA at 60-80 ppm, CH 300-350 (for plaster and fiberglass, not an issue for vinyl as long as it's at least 100- 150), and finally, adding borates to 30-50 ppm makes for a very stable and easily maintained pool. I have used these numbers in my own pool and in the pools of my customers (when I was working in the industry) with great success. There are posts in the China Shop (and on some other forums that I can no longer support) that document and support these findings.

Hope this helps.

[waterbear]

I DO WORK FOR AUTOPILOT CHLORINE GENERATOR SYSTEMS, www.autopilot.com, so you can take my response with a "grain of salt" as a salt industry rep.
Hope I've been unbiased.

Sean,

As usual you have been completely unbiased, IMHO!:)

[Watermom]

Evan,
Glad to see you around. I was mentioning you just the other day wondering where you wuz!

[waterbear]

Evan,
Glad to see you around. I was mentioning you just the other day wondering where you wuz!

[HIJACK}
Just been busy with work and school. Haven't had time to breath this year, it seemed. Summer vacation starts in a week!:D

(We now return to your regularly scheduled thread)
[/HIJACK]

[Pool Master]

"the right way of doing the pool"? Wow, if Chlorine was oil, you sound like Exxon.

Once you swim in a salt water pool, you will wish you switched the first day you got the pool.

Sorry you took my post the wrong way. I can understand though because most of you have never experienced "the right way of doing the pool" I may have worded this wrong considering no one knows who I am and that this was my first post. I know there are a number of ways to chlorinate pools, and many do not have as many options as others. Here in the pool capitol of the world there are many options and I have seen and tried them all. Before everyone gets upset I just have a couple questions. How many of you have ever tried using PURE chlorine? How many of you know what PURE chlorine is? I am not talking about Sodium hypochlorite, Trichlor, Tablets, etc..... I am talking about what the swg is making. Would you all agree that if you allready have what the swg is making (when it works) then you have PURE chlorine? My whole point is this .....When PURE chlorine is availible, why wouldn't it be better and more cost effective than a swg?

I will agree that if PURE chlorine is not availible then a swg is the best alternative.

If you all keep an open mind here, we may teach each other a few things.


Thanks Torontonian...well said.

Pool Master, are you in the pool service industry by any chance?

First, most do not taste the salinity in the water. AND BY NO MEANS IS IT SEA WATER concentration (as implied by your "YUK" response). Most will comment that the salt water feels better on their skin than a non salted pool. Although some will also say that they don't feel a difference.


There are different types of systems, depending on if you're looking for basic salt chlorinators, inbetween, or bells and whistles (automation with regards to your chlorine and pH levels; pump control; remote interface, etc).
Then you have several model cells to choose from, within each manufacturer's offerings. The larger the cell, the more chlorine you can produce and the longer the cell will last. There is a cost with replacement cells when they wear out. Typically this is around 10,000 hours of operation. For So Florida and our 12 month seasons, this is about 3-5 years...I live in Coral Springs, FL.

Other than the initial cost of the system, your ongoing cost is very inexpensive. Replenish the salt and stabilizer when levels drop, which would be due to water loss from bather splashout, bathing suit dragout, filter backwashing (if you have a DE or Sand filter), rain fall overflow, and leaks. On a residential pool, this may be 2 -3 bags a year of salt. A bag of salt is anywhere from $5 - $10.

What's needed to convert your chlorine pool? Add the salt clorine generator equipment and salt directly into the pool. Depending on what your current salt level is (which may already have salt from bleach (sodium hypochlorite) usage. If your pool is new, or freshly refilled water, 50 lbs/2000 gallons gets you to 3000 ppm. This is the typical salt level for most systems offered in the US. Imported Australian systems run a bit higher in salinity.
You will still need to test your chlorine and pH levels, and adjust them as needed.

As stated, using a salt chlorine generator does not make your pool a salt pool, or a chlorine free pool. You're simply making your own chlorine, on site, and eliminating the need to have to run to the store to pick up chemicals week after week. It also creates a big convenience factor to maintaining your pool, giving you more time to enjoy it.

I DO WORK FOR AUTOPILOT CHLORINE GENERATOR SYSTEMS, www.autopilot.com, so you can take my response with a "grain of salt" as a salt industry rep.
Hope I've been unbiased.
Yes, I am in the pool industry. You say "most do not taste the salinity in the water." keyword is "most"
Sorry , but I can. I will agree that a swg pool will feel better than a pool with soft water.
"On a residential pool, this may be 2 -3 bags a year of salt. A bag of salt is anywhere from $5 - $10."
This may be true in Toronto, Canada.... but not in a place like S. Florida. I keep all my salt pools at 3000 - 3500 ppm and use on average about 10 - 12 50 lb bags of salt per pool a year.



I switched to a SWG a few years ago and love it. The "conversion" is simply installing the SWG and adding salt, done. I can even use bleach and turn off the SWG any time I want, and I do that when opening in the spring and when shocking the pool (which isn't often). Other than using the SWG to produce chlorine, I'm BBB all the way.

I've done comparisons of the total costs of the SWG vs bleach and they all come out more or less even. Depending on what you count as part of the SWG expenses, and what you don't count, it can go either way. Having a SWG is way less work and it makes going away for the weekend much simpler. I'd be willing to pay more for that, but I don't have to.
"Depending on what you count as part of the SWG expenses"
I am really not trying to sound abrasive but why wouldn't you count ALL of the SWG expenses? All equipment, installation and maintenance/replacement cost?

PoolMaster:

You are entitled to your opinions but please do not state them as facts. You may wish to argue these points in "The China Shop"--that's what it's there for.

I have done the same arithmetic as you regarding the cost of installing an SWG system and came to a similar conclusion: That I could not justify the cost of the system.

HOWEVER, many, many of our members have them and love them and, for them, the CONVENIENCE is well-worth the cost. Nor have they complained about the salt in the water creating any problem. Your statement about that is simply inaccurate. Correct salt levels for SWGs do not create a salty taste or leave you feeling briny the way sea water does.

Since Salt Water Generators generate chlorine they are well within what we, at Pool Forum, consider "the right way of doing the pool". I would never state that using an SWG is "wrong" or a "bad" way to maintain a pool. There is nothing about an SWG that is incompatible with our philosophy expressed as the B-B-B method of pool maintenance.
I never said it was like sea water. But I will say this again, I can taste, feel and even see the salt at night with the pool light on.


Sean,

As usual you have been completely unbiased, IMHO!:)


Your pool will be a "Chlorine pool" even if you decide to get a salt generator. A salt generator converts salt into chlorine. You could buy A LOT of chlorine for the price of the generator alone. Then figure in the cost of installation and you could have enough money invested that you could have paid for a top notch service for a couple of years or do it yourself and save even more. You also have to remember that the salt cost money and is close to the same amount if not more than using chlorine. I would never recommend a salt generator mainly because now you swim in salt water (YUK) which you can taste and feel on your skin. And it is NOT cost effective at all. My advice is spend some money on a big DE filter and have the best water around!

my answers to your questions.....

1. Yes there are different generators and I am sure there are some that last longer than others or some that outperform others. But, they are all expensive and they all break at some point.

2. I have seen a few switch to salt generators. They spent big money buying the equipment and having it installed. Then when they broke they either paid big money AGAIN or went back to the right way of doing the pool.

I have to go do 37 beautiful pools today so I will leave you with this......

A swg is trying to make (on a much much smaller scale) what I allready have. Sean If you do not believe me I will be in Coral Springs on Friday and would love to show you and talk pools.

[Watermom]

Pool Master,
Forum rules state that anybody who is in the pool industry must identify themselves as such and to what capacity on each and everyone of their posts. Thanks.

[PoolDoc]

Dude. Don't listen much, do you? I warned you by email.

You are banned.

I suspected that you were in the pool biz -- you wrote like a typical "I got the answers" pool dude, swaggering in here all mouth and no ears. If you were a pool owner, I could cut you some slack. But you're not. And I lost patience with pool guys that were "going to set me straight" more than 10 years ago.

As I told you, if you can actually prove something, there are a bunch of us here who want to learn from you. But one more pool dude with a big attitude, that we don't need.

In case you don't check your email, it's below. If you want to discuss it with me, respond to that email. But, unless you can offer a good reason why I shouldn't, consider yourself banned for life.

PoolDoc




TEXT OF EMAIL SENT TO YOUR ADDRESS
================================================== ===
Hi Sonny;

Your post (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showpost.php?p=61558&postcount=2) set off quite a few warning bells in folks and we got several notices.

We would REALLY encourage you to read for awhile, before you post again, especially after selecting a user name like "Pool Master". A name like that, coupled with statements like SWG being "NOT cost effective at all" are really going to cause problems unless you are prepared to do the math, with real data, real numbers and real calculations, and PROVE it.

If you can, please do and be welcome!

But that sort of stuff goes in the "China Shop". You'll have to defend anything like that against PoolSean and probably chem_geek, but they will play by the rules, too. But, before you do so, find some of chem_geek's posts and make sure you are ready to return the ball, when you get into the court with him. If not, you might want to reconsider.

Sincerely,

The Pool Forum Team
================================================== ===

[CarlD]

Hello, All ~
Thanks to everyone who has posted answers to my questions in the Chlorine and water chemistry forum. We are new pool owners of a 15,000 gal, concrete, IG, fully screened, solar heated pool in Florida. We have a chlorine pool at this time and are considering switching to salt. My questions are:
1. Are there different kinds of salt generators? One better than others?
2. Have you switched from Chlorine to salt? What was the process?

I have not done a lot of research because I figured I would start here to narrow things down first! This is a great place to start with wonderful information. Thanks so much in advance.
Best,
Kelly

Please don't let this put you off your quest to determine if an SWG is right for you and your pool, and, therefore, which SWG is best for you.

Our goal is to protect you and help you have the BEST pool you can, whatever your budget. We do this for fun and the good camaraderie it brings, and every now and again someone in the industry like this shows up.

[waterbear]

As I told you, if you can actually prove something, there are a bunch of us here who want to learn from you. But one more pool dude with a big attitude, that we don't need.

In case you don't check your email, it's below. If you want to discuss it with me, respond to that email. But, unless you can offer a good reason why I shouldn't, consider yourself banned for life.

PoolDoc




[
Ben,

THIS is why we need you here and why you were missed!!!!!

You are right on the money!

[kmmlangston]

Original poster here.....
Wow. That sure was an interesting exchange...When I read the first response to my post I thought the person was a bit emphatic, to put it nicely, about the subject of SWGs. My thought was, "Well, why do my friends love theirs so much?". Now I know. We are in no hurry to make a change, but while it is on my mind and you all are here to answer questions, I thought I would ask. Thanks, again!
Happy Swimming,
Kelly

[aylad]

Don't let him (or the post exchange) scare you off--helping you get good information (and doing away with those who are giving you bad) is what we're here for!

Janet

[kmmlangston]

Janet, et al,
THANK YOU for all your information! By no means am I scared away! At any point I have questions on anything pool-related, this will be the only place I come to first! I read quite a bit before I ever posted, so I knew that there was a dedicated band of moderators who are incredibly knowlegeable and want to share their knowledge. Both my husband and I appreciate all the information that all of you have posted in response to my questions and concerns. I have a much better understanding of the whole Total Alkilinity/Ph thing than ever. This whole forum is just a wonderful source of information and I have shared it with several people in town.

When it comes time for us to make a decision about switching (or not) to salt, I will check out Sean's company, as I value openness/transparency/whatever you want to call it, and appreciate his feedback.

Thanks, again, everyone.
Best to all,
Kelly

[Poolsean]

Thanks for the consideration Kelly. We're all here to HELP.

[waterbear]

Original poster here.....
Wow. That sure was an interesting exchange...When I read the first response to my post I thought the person was a bit emphatic, to put it nicely, about the subject of SWGs. My thought was, "Well, why do my friends love theirs so much?". Now I know. We are in no hurry to make a change, but while it is on my mind and you all are here to answer questions, I thought I would ask. Thanks, again!
Happy Swimming,
Kelly
Well, this guy had an agenda since his job is chlorinating pools with chlorine gas (which is an excellent method but not something the home pool owner can do himself). SWGs definitely cut into his business (since they do much the same, as he even stated!) so he is going to do what he can to try and discredit them!

[ianitrix]

I move into my new house which already has a 2 year old pool but I would love to switch it over to salt. Ive been trying to read on the forums here on how to do this but I havent found a guide on how to do this myself. Is there a machine that someone could recommend I buy so I could do some research on

Thanks
ian

[CarlD]

I'm not the PF expert on SWCG, but I can give you these starters:

First: You are not switching over from chlorine to salt, you are simply using salt to generate the chlorine for you since salt is Sodium Chloride--you can always add additional chlorine.

Second: There are some simple, do-it-yourself systems, but they are for smaller pools--12,000 gallons, max. Some don't even need plumbing.

Third: Many of the better systems require some wiring, handled by a licensed electrician. But an experienced do-it-yourself-er may be able to handle it. I think some require 220v service.

Fourth: You will need to add salt to your water and test for it. Solar salt is usually best.

Fifth: You will need to have different chem levels than you are used to--CYA around 80ppm but FC only around 2 or 3.

Sixth: You will probably find your pH rises all the time and you are adding Muriatic acid frequently. There MAY be levels of T/A and CH that control that--again for the experts to guide you.

Seventh: You will probably LOVE it and wonder how you did without it. I don't know. I find adding LC ever other day or less to be pretty low-level in terms of effort. But everyone here who has one loves it! Personally, I prefer to spend the jack on a top-notch remote control robotic cleaner. But that's just me.

[BigTallGuy]

I move into my new house which already has a 2 year old pool but I would love to switch it over to salt. Ive been trying to read on the forums here on how to do this but I havent found a guide on how to do this myself. Is there a machine that someone could recommend I buy so I could do some research on

Thanks
ian

Hi Ian. I would simply like to add my 2 cents in regards to switching from Traditional Chlorine to Chlorine generated from Salt. I have an 11,500 gallon AG pool and had to replace the liner in May of 2010. I drained my pool of course and added the SWCG at the same time. But draining is not required. I calculated the amout of salt I needed, which was approximately 7-8 40lb. bags of Pool salt and added 6 bags to start. Once the water level was back up and the system running, I had the salt level tested and added another full bag, making a total of 7 bags or 280 lbs. The "Low Salt" light on the SWCG went out and that was all there was to it. I recommend only Morton Pool Salt without the Stabilizer. Cost is about $5-$8 per bag. It is fast dissolving and pure.

The last and final thing is what I refer to in a different post that I started is "Fine Tuning" a Salt Water Pool. You will have to determine a few things like how long to run your filter, CYA levels etc. but once you find your settings, it is bliss.

My only surprise in the entire ordeal was that keeping the pH down is a challenge, and this topic has been covered in many different Posts and threads.

In Short, I love my salt water pool and I am not sorry I did it. I would do it again. I was afraid the grand kids would shun the salt water taste, but they didn't.

If you want an idea of the approximate Salt level, dissolve one tablespoon of salt in a gallon of clean tap water (not your current pool water) and take a taste. That will give you about the same level as required by most SWCG's. Some people can taste it and some cannot.

And FYI, the Oceans of the world would have approximately 9-10 tablespoons of salt in the same gallon of water.