New Pool Owner Questions - 8 questions!! :)

[kmmlangston]

Dear All ~
First, this is an amazing forum with so much information. Thank you to everyone who takes time to post such detailed answers to the basic, introductory questions like the ones you are about to read! :) Learning the ins and outs of a pool is more than one might think!

I wasn't sure where to post these questions, as they cover the gamut of topics, but here goes. I will try to be succint. :) (which is hard for me.)

Basic Info about pool: Chlorine, rectangular IG, fully screened (live in FL), 15,000 gal, Hayward Sand Filter, pump motor is 1 HP, Solar panels for heating, no waterfall/spa. Built 2000. We purchased the house in Nov 09 and are quickly learning (or trying to) the complexities of pool ownership. There may be more info you might need that I don't know, but my husband probably does.

1. Best automatic vacuum/where to purchase? After trying a search, I found there are lots of options that I had no idea about. We do have a port in the pool to plug a vacuum in. I think we would want one with brushes and a vacuum, but don't think we need one that filters the water, too, or has a bag on it. We would like to spend in the $300-$500 range, but really, want the best bang for our buck.

2. Best test kit and place to order/buy? What are the things I really need to test for? (obviously chlorine, Ph, TA) I have a cheap $15.00 one from Pinch-a-Penny, but I think it does not test everything we need. Should I have a test kit that shows Calcium hardness and stabilizer?

3. MINIMUM time to be running pump/filter? We are having a small issue with what we think is mustard algae (greenish yellow on sides/bottom). I am gathering from reading here on the forum that we should be running it from 8-10 hours a day at this time of year.

4. How much bleach to shock? We are using bleach as a chlorinator (after reading about it here). I have read here to do a big shock and run pump a lot to clear out the algea. Will that be all it takes?

5. How often to change sand in sand filter? We are not sure when the last change was done. Also, this may seem like a moronic question: what is DE? (I'm telling you, I'm new!)

6. Making sure I understand abbreviations:
TC=Total Chorline
CC=Combined Chlorine
CYA=Stabilizer (?) This is important, yes?
TA=Total alkilinity

7. Benefits of multi-speed pumps? What are good ones? Our utility company is offering pretty good rebates for installing them and we are considering it.

8. Benefits of switching to salt?

I think that is it....I'm sure I'm forgetting something, but will look forward to your expert answers to generate more questions.

We do test chemicals regularly, but we haven't tested for 2 days and it rained like crazy yesterday (and probably will today as well). Hazards of living in Florida, I guess. If you need that info, I can post with it.

THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!!
Best Regards, Kelly Langston

[Watermom]

Hi Kelly and welcome to the forum! I'm going to answer some of your questions and other will be along to answer some, too.

2. A good kit to buy is the Taylor K-2006. Right now this seems to be a good place/good price for it. http://www.amatoind.com/taylor-k2006-test-p-555.html

3. If you are fighting algae, you should be running the pump 24/7 until it clears up. After that you can cut back. I typically run my pump 8 hours or so per day.

4. Without current testing result numbers, we can't really advise you what level to shock to. Post numbers and we'll go from there. I will tell you that in your size pool, each quart of 6% bleach you add will raise your cl level by 1 ppm. When you are fighting algae, you need to raise your cl to shock level (which is based on your cya reading) and hold the chlorine at this level until the water clears. Sometimes takes a few days to accomplish this.

5. There is no set time to change sand filter. Not often, that is for sure. I'm on the 10th season with my sand and many others have had their same sand for much longer. DE (dichotomous earth) is a filter media for people who use a DE filter. Your filter media is sand.

6. You are correct with the abbreviations and yes, cya (also called stabilizer or sometimes conditioner) is very important.

7. Multi-speed pumps are more cost-efficient. You can run on low for regular filtering and on high for backwashing, vaccuuming, etc. Someone else can advise you about what is a good one to buy.


I'll let someone else talk to you about question #1 and 8. Hope this helps. Repost with current water testing results.

Again, welcome to the forum!

[kmmlangston]

Thank you! One thing I would like to say is that after reading some of the posts on this forum, I know that you (Watermom) have had a rough go the past few years and that I hope you are in full remission and doing well. Thank you for taking the time to answer.

I just tested the water and here is what I came up with (using our cheap $15 kit)
Chlorine= between 1.5-2.00 it was more than one, but not quite 2 on the color chart
Ph= 7.8 (as best as I could tell)
Total Alkilinity= 170 ?? I have not done this test before, and I am thinking this is high? I added 17 drops of solution 3 before the water did a permanent change from a lilac color to clear.

Question: stabilizer is something I purchase separately and put in the pool? The tabs that the previous own had supposedly have stablizer in them, but we are not sure how old they are. If I am using bleach, is there a product that is just stabilizer?

The algea that we think we have seems to be very minimal at this time (I can only imagine it can explode, though), so if we increase cholorine and the time we run the pump, should that help? My husband has been vacuuming (yes, manually...hence the question about automatic vacuums!) and brushing the sides and bottom almost daily to keep ahead of it.

Any other information I can provide? Many thanks!
Kelly

[aylad]

Let me add my welcome to you--we're glad to have you here!

One more question--is your pool surface liner, or concrete/plaster/gunite?

If you used 17 drops for the TA test to get a permanent color change, then your TA is really 170. In a vinyl pool, it's not a big deal, but since your pH is also high you can take care of them both at once by adding muriatic acid to drop both the TA and pH (but only drop the pH to the low 7 range--you don't want to get to the 6 range), then aerate your water to raise the pH back up while leaving the TA low. You can read more about that in the Alkalinity forum--the process for ratcheting it down is stickied at the top of the forum.

Stabilizer is the same as CYA, often labeled at the store as " balancer" or "conditioner". It is important in the pool because that's what protects your chlorine from the sun, so it's left in the pool to fight "stuff". Your current CYA level is what will determine how high you need to raise your chlorine to get rid of the algae, so if you could test for that and post it, that will help us help you eliminate the algae problem. If you need to raise it, you can buy it separately at WalMart, or you can use the tabs in an inline chlorinator. The ingredient on these tabs should be trichloro........something. Basically that's a tab of chlorine with stabilizer built in. They are bad about driving your pH down, though, so if you use them to chlorinate with, keep a close eye on your CYA and your pH.

Hope this helps!

Janet

[Watermom]

Have you tested your cya or does your test kit have that test in it? If not, let a pool store test it for you. Just don't let them load up your car with unnecessary stuff, though!

Stabilizer can be purchased separately. We normally all use granular CYA but we are hearing about a liquid conditioner which has the advantage of not taking a week to dissolve like the granules do. Of course, the liquid is apparently about twice as expensive though. (BTW -- stabilizer, conditioner, cyanuric or isocyanuric acid are the same product.) Before you add any stabilizer, post your cya reading.
If it turns out that you do need stabilizer and if your ph is still high, you might want to consider using the trichlor tabs for a bit. They will add chlorine, add cya, lower your pH since they are quite acidic. UNLESS they have copper in them like some of the tabs do. If they do, do NOT use them. You do NOT want copper in your pool. (Copper is what turns hair green, by the way. Not high chlorine like most people think.) Post your cya reading when you get it and at that time, we'll help you decide what is the best way for you to add cya to your pool based on the current readings at that time.

Regarding the algae ---- you got it! Sustained high chlorine, runnng the pump 24/7 while trying to clear the water and brushing the pool. Do those things consistently and it will rid your pool of the algae. But, you must sustain the high chlorine reading. Don't let it yo-yo up and down. Try and test at least twice (and 3x is better) per day and each time, add enough bleach to get back to shock level. Again, we need to know that cya reading to know what the appropriate shock level is for your pool.

Finally, thank you for your well wishes. At this time, we *think* I am in remission after battling this for over 2 years now. I go back to MD Anderson Cancer Center in July for another appointment with my oncologist there and more PET/CT scans. I am praying that those scans still show all clear. I appreciate your kind words, Kelly.


EDIT -- I see that while I was typing Janet also posted for you.

[kmmlangston]

I KNEW from reading posts on this forum that you all would just be incredible! Thank you so much. Our test kit does not test for stabilizer, so I think we will take a water sample to pinch a penny, as they seem a decent enough outfit and haven't tried to push a bunch of stuff on us. That will probably not be until tomorrow. We are just about to get inundated with rain for the second day in a row, and I can only imagine how that can mess with the pool balance.

Our pool is concrete with a plaster finish? Marcite? The previous home owner did not maintain her chemicals correctly, and apparently the water leached calcium out of the pool walls and there is discoloration on the pool bottom and areas where the surface is degrading and chipping off (the process of which is accelerating, too). We are planning to have it resurfaced by a company in town called Padgett Plastering (anyone from Gainesville, FL, familiar with them?!). They have been in business here for 30 years and seem to have a good reputation. We just want to make sure that once we spend the money to have it looking amazing, we have the water chemistry solid so that it doesn't happen again.

Janet, thank you for your information. So, if we add the acid to lower total alkilinity, do we then run the pump for longer than normal to aerate to bring the Ph back up?

After reading through posts here on the forum, I did come to the conclusion that copper in your pool is NOT a good thing, so we will be sure to avoid that.

I'm not sure the pool store is open tomorrow, but if it is, we will try to go by and have them test our water and I will post their results. Again, MANY THANKS! We will have an amazing pool in no time thanks to you all!! :)

Best regards,
Kelly

[aylad]

You might want to check with WalMart--they used to have a 6-way test for around $15 that tests for Cl, pH, Alk, CH, TA, and CYA. The ones around here don't carry it anymore but I've seen posts on the forum from other parts of the country where they do still carry it. While you're at the pool store, look for a good drop-based kit that tests for those things. The Taylor K-2006 is the kit we recommend, and they can be found online or at some pool stores. They can be kinda pricey (up to $100), but believe me, they will save you that much money hundreds of times over when it comes to maintaining a clean, clear pool. When you have your water tested, make sure you get a reading for CYA and Calcium hardness--they're going to be important in your pool and I didn't notice readings for either of them in your above post.

About the aeration in your pool, you don't necessarily have to run the pump longer than normal to raise the pH again, but it won't hurt. It's a gradual process. You can point your return eyeballs to the water surface in order to create rippling in the water, and that will help. A large group of kids splashing around in it will help even better! :) Just make sure that when you add the acid, you're adding it in front of a running return, and don't add enough to drop the pH lower than 7.0. Be patient and act slowly, with this and all chemicals, because it's much better to "sneak up" on a target than to overshoot it and have to correct problems later. If you overshoot and drop the pH too low, you can always raise it fairly quickly with Borax, but don't want to risk doing any further damage to your pool than the previous owners already did.

Janet

[dmarsh70]

Hi Kelly,

Welcome! you are correct in saying that this board is awesome. I've only been a pool owner (1st time) for about 1 whole week.

I read this board for several weeks while my pool was being built and I can tell you that doing so will pay benefits.

I've spoken to about 3 local pool owners in my neigborhood, and with all due-respect, they are CLUELESS to pool maintenance :)

They run to the local store every week with their test bottles and come back with directions on what to add etc etc.

I've been testing every day as my pool has brand new marcite/plaster so for the first several days I pumped 24/7 and brushed twice a day, and took readings two times a day.

Moving along - I have a two speed pump. I just last night set it on the timer as I am seeing my water balancing out and I am no longer seeing blue plaster dust when I brush.

I set it to "HI SPEED" from 4:30 - 10:30 PM (about when we'll be in it alot throughout the week) and then on LOW SPEED from 7AM - 12 PM. Now that's 11 hours a day of running, but if I get in the pool I turn it on High Speed. So I am probably running the pump a bit more than needed - but I am experimenting.

I'll keep taking readings... In about a week I may try to run it at Low Speed during timed sessions..

I can tell you that in my limited experience what counts is "SLOW AND STEADY". Don't be too anxious to listen to the Professional Pool People at the pool store..

Also - I see you live in Florida -me too. From what I understand, we one of the few states that the pool stores sell "liquid chlorine" AKA - BLEACH. It's very reasonably priced, and my local store gets a fresh 15K gallon supply every week - so you may want to check that out too.

Good Luck!!
David

[CarlD]

Welcome!

We are delighted that our forum is once again open to new members and all the activity and life they bring us!

Carl

[kmmlangston]

David,
What brand is your pump? As I mentioned, we are looking into purchasing a variable speed pump -- apparently, the electrical savings can be worth the initial investment. (and our utility is offering rebates).

We got what the weather station is saying 3/4 inches of rain yesterday - Saturday - (seemed like more), but both my husband and i think we need to drain the pool a bit. I am hoping to take a water sample to Pinch a penny and get them to analyze it and I will post the results.

Thanks, all, for the wonderful information and generosity in sharing your expertise!

Best,
Kelly

[kmmlangston]

So, I took my water sample to Pinch-a-Penny here in town and this is what they came up with. (they did not try to sell me anything!)

FC= 1 ppm (this is what I figured with my home test as well - I knew it was low)
pH= 7.8 (This is also what I figured at home)
Acid Demand= 2 (they are saying this is high)
Total Alkilinity = 130 (when I tested before I took the water to the store, I came up with
160 as opposed to 170 like I got yesterday)
Calcium Hardness = 500 (knew this would be high as we have been told that is why our
pool surface is degrading: the water is leaching Calcium from the marcite/plaster.)
Stabilizer = 100
Total Disolved solids = 1,900

We got a lot of rain yesterday and the day before and are in a pattern to see some significant thunderstorms daily for the next several days. We are thinking we will need to drain an inch off after todays rain. How does added rain water affect pool chemistry?

As I mentioned, we are having what we think is a small algae problem. When we brush the walls/bottom, a yellowish color billows then settles to the bottom. Obviously we need to up our chlorine (bleach). However, we don't want to dump a bunch of bleach in the pool as most likely, the pool will be drained and resurfaced starting this week. Do we increase the cholorine a bit, and keep brushing the algea/vacuuming in the interim?

A few more questions: David said he is brushing his new pool twice daily. Do we need to do that once our pool is resurfaced? And, will a regular bristle brush work or do we need to get one of those wire ones?

Also, any advice on auto vacuums? (see original post)
Any advice on switching from Chlorine to salt? (original post as well)

I noticed on another thread a guy with the sign on of BigTallDumbGuy. Maybe I'll change mine to Frizzy-haired Numbskull Gal! :) Thanks for all the feedback!
Kelly

[aylad]

If you are planning to drain and resurface the pool this week, then I wouldn't worry about trying to adjust any of the numbers--just keep the chlorine in the 5-10 range to keep the algae bloom from getting any worse, and you can adjust everything else at startup.

In many cases, rain water actually has a lower pH than the pool water, so it may lower the pH for you. Ideal pH is 7.2-7.6, but my pool actually "settles" at about 7.8 no matter what I do, so I find it much easier to leave it alone. It actually seems to be easier on my kids' eyes, anyway. If you find that you have to drain water, if you can do it from the bottom of the pool, it will lower your CYA a bit, which will be a good thing if you don't drain it, because 100 is too high and will make it hard to keep clear. If you drain it, you'll have to start over anyway, so it's really not a big deal.

Ignore TDS and acid demand tests--they're pretty much useless to you right now.

I'm sure that the person who resurfaces your pool will give you detailed instructions as to what to do, but I'm pretty sure that daily brushing for awhile will be part of the program. Make sure you do whatever he tells you to, in order to honor whatever warranty comes with the job.

I have an auto vacuum--it's a Polaris 380. It is a suction side cleaner, meaning it plugs into an extra return on the side of my pool, and requires a booster pump. Most people that have Polaris either love or hate them...I happen to love mine. YOu can read about more possibilities in the Automatic Cleaners forum.

Regarding salt, it's supposed to be the most maintenance-free you can get in pool care--it requres regular additions to keep the pH down, but otherwise, as long as your salt level is good, it's supposed to pretty much do the rest. If you shock, you should do it with bleach or other chlorine source, but otherwise it's billed as pretty easy. I would love to have one, an dprobably will have one installed if/when I can find the extra cash lying around. I do know that if I were to build another pool today, I would definitely have one added to the package. I'm all for easy pool care!! Read through the SWG forum for opinions from those who have them...you could even start a new thread in that forum,if you wanted, asking for opinions.

Janet