Chlorine and calcium low

[mrszaff]

I am a new member and I really want to get my pool right this year, so thanks in advance. We fought a metal issue last season and reading your info really saved us. Thank you!

Opened it up 2 weeks ago and it stayed green for 10 days despite "perfect #s" according to the pool store. I added Polyquot 60 and kept shocking it with liquid shock and bleach , finally after replacing the valve in the filter because of air bubbles and then adding Proteam mustard and black majic(Sodium Bromide) it cleared up but now the chlorine levels are really low. I just got an analysys at Leslies Pool Store and here are the #s. The water is clear but not sparkling yet.

16x32 inground vinyl
sand filter
FAC .5
PH 7.2
TA 80
Calcium Hardness 80
CYA 35
TDS 1000
Copper/Iron 0
Phosphates 500

That's all they gave me but they recommended I add
a bag of Powder Shock and 20lbs of Calcium Hardness(I didn't buy it) as well as phosfree anf 10 oz of PH up
Before I do anything I wanted to check with you all.
thanks from Long Island !!!

[CarlD]

I am a new member and I really want to get my pool right this year, so thanks in advance. We fought a metal issue last season and reading your info really saved us. Thank you!

Opened it up 2 weeks ago and it stayed green for 10 days despite "perfect #s" according to the pool store. I added Polyquot 60 and kept shocking it with liquid shock and bleach , finally after replacing the valve in the filter because of air bubbles and then adding Proteam mustard and black majic(Sodium Bromide) it cleared up but now the chlorine levels are really low. I just got an analysys at Leslies Pool Store and here are the #s. The water is clear but not sparkling yet.

16x32 inground vinyl
sand filter
FAC .5
PH 7.2
TA 80
Calcium Hardness 80
CYA 35
TDS 1000
Copper/Iron 0
Phosphates 500

That's all they gave me but they recommended I add
a bag of Powder Shock and 20lbs of Calcium Hardness(I didn't buy it) as well as phosfree anf 10 oz of PH up
Before I do anything I wanted to check with you all.
thanks from Long Island !!!

I'll BET they tried to sell you Calcium and Phosfree! Don't waste your money. There is no such thing as "low calcium" in a vinyl pool. You don't need it--it's only for concrete/plaster pools. Phosfree is the latest gimmick to move $$$ from you to them. You need to raise your FC to at least 3-6ppm if your pool is clear and you should do it with bleach or liquid chlorine. Your pH is a little low but with a passel of kids splashing it it, it will go up enough.

Forget TDS--if you had an SWG your TDS (from the salt) would have the pool store guys DROOLING over stuff they could sell you.

In short, you need chlorine but otherwise GO SWIMMING!

[nthach]

The only "gimmick" I've seen that somewhat works is Green To Clean.

Leslie's shock is almost always cal hypo. Liquid bleach or pool chlorine is the best thing to use for shocking the pool - as the -chlors like trichlor/dichlor will also dump CYA in your pool.

[mrszaff]

Thank you so much, I am heading to the store to get bleach!!!

[mrszaff]

Hi again,
The pool still looks great but I can't get the chlorine to stay above .5 for more than 24 hours.
I have been adding 2 gallons of bleach every night. I even added a package of the powder shock one night. The chlorinator has been running every day as well with 4 tabs in it.
Thanks
Mrszaff

[Watermom]

Can you post current water testing results. The last ones posted are now 4 days old. It would also be good if you could give us at least 2 of the following: FC, CC, TC, in additon to all the other test numbers.

[mrszaff]

ok, I will try to get back to the pool store tomorrow and get a test done, I only have the strips.

[nthach]

I would suggest picking up the HTH 6-way test kit at Wally-World. It's made by Taylor, and while it's not a K-2006 or one of Ben's/TFP's kits, it's better than the strips - only thing it doesn't do is FAS-DPD chlorine.

[waterbear]

You have a bromide pool right now. It can take a while for the chlorine to hold after a sodium bromide treatment. Keep shocking the pool with liquid chlorine or bleach and you will find your chlorine will eventually hold. It can take 3 or 4 times before it does, however.
Invest in a good test kit and stop relying on the pool store. You will never have your pool under control if you do. Get a Taylor K-2006 (not the K-2005). It is worth every penny (around $80 US) and will pay for itself over and over again. I know that NO ONE on here will disagree with me!

[nthach]

Why are you adding bromine to your pool - not only does Cl and Br interact with each other, Br breaks down to worthless bromides quite quickly.

You'll need to use bleach or liquid chlorine in huge doses to get the Cl levels up and you'll need to maintain them for a few days or weeks until the Br is down to 0.

[aylad]

The Taylor kit that we recommend (that Waterbear mentioned in his post) can be found online for $55.00 at http://www.spspools-spas.com, or for $46 and change at http://www.amatoind.com . Believe me, a good test kit and your own testing will not only be more accurate, but save you HUNDREDS at the pool store.

Janet

[waterbear]

Why are you adding bromine to your pool - not only does Cl and Br interact with each other, Br breaks down to worthless bromides quite quickly.


Sodium bromide is an effective way to kill algae (usually mustard algae) caused when CYA levels get too high. By converting the pool to bromine temporarily it takes the CYA out of the equation. However, once the pool converts back to chlorine the high CYA levels tend to create problems once again so unless there is also a water change to lower the CYA the use use of sodium bromide based products are only a band aid and not a cure!

[CarlD]

If memory serves, if you use a bromine to clear algae from a chlorine pool, you need to add lots of chlorine to get rid of the bromine.

So you either add lots of chlorine to get rid of the algae, or lots of chlorine to get rid of the bromine that got rid of the algae....

[mrszaff]

Thanks everyone, I added the bromine to get rid of the ugly algae last week, which wasn't reacting to the polyquot 6o or the gallons of liquid shock and bleach I was pouring in. It did clear up the pool so we could swim so I can't complain. BUT, you are right I am still dumping bleach in every day. I found it at Walgreens today for only $1.99 for the store brand large jug. I am also noticing that the supply of bleach is very low every where I go here in my long island town, not a coincidence I am sure. I haven't been able to go to Leslies yet after a long day at work for a test kit or water analysis. I will look at the online sights you recommend. We are getting a thunderstorm now so I will wait till tomorrow and keep you posted. THANKS for all the input, it is much appreciated, and I still have a good looking pool, which makes me happy!!!

[Watermom]

Just an FYI -- Polyquat 60 is a much better preventative than it is for treating an existing algae bloom.

[nthach]

Is the Walgreens brand bleach 5.25% or more of sodium hypochlorite? Some store brands are between 2-4% NaOCl, caveat emptor.

[mrszaff]

I finished it up so I don't know, but the IGA brand I used today was 5.25 sodium hypochlorite, is that ok? I put in 3 gallons.waiting till payday to get my kit, but the test strips show dark purple in the am and white in the pm for chlorine so I know it's not holding yet.

[nthach]

The IGA stuff should be fine. I'd add in your Cl at night and take measures of day/night Cl usage.

[mrszaff]

Hi,
I am awaiting the arrival of the test kit so I went to Leslies pool store and here are the test results.

Free Chlorine 0
Ph 7.2
Total Alkalinity 100
calcium hardness 60
cyranuric acid 35
total dissolved solids 1200
copper/iron 0
phosphates 500

They would not do a test for total available chlorine, they claimed that it is the same as free chlorine even though it says right on the sheet how to do it. They tried to talk me into a bucket of calcium hardness plus, I lied and said I had it at home and 2 lbs of soda ash.

So how much bleach will it take to get the chlorine to hold and what do I add to get PH up?
should I worry about alkalinity?
I have been adding two 128 oz bottles at night bit it goes down in about 36 hours to 0.
I just bought CLorox 96 oz bottles today because they are on sale. they are 6%
I will let you know when the kit arrives and I do my first test.
thanks!

[Watermom]

With a cya of 35 and that fact that you currently have no chlorine in your pool, you should probably shock it up to 15. In a pool this size each 3 qt jug of will raise your cl by about 2ppm. You should add it in the evening and then see how much it drops by morning. If you are losing more than 1 ppm overnight, then you are fighting something in your water and you should add enough bleach to get the cl back up to 15. Test and dose it with bleach two or three times a day until you get to the point where you are not losing more than 1 ppm of cl overnight. Then, you can let the cl drift down and keep it in the 3-6ppm range all the time. If you let it dip below 3ppm, you are inviting an algae bloom.

Also, your pH is ok at 7.2 but just watch that it doesn't drop any lower. You can use 20 Mule Team Borax (in the laundry aisle at Walmart) to raise it.

Hope this helps.

BTW -- Don't use soda ash. It will raise your pH and your alk and you don't want your alk any higher. It is great at 100.

[mrszaff]

Thank you! Maybe I'm still fighting the bromine from the mustard algae.
How much Borax should I add?
Also, My chlorinator is now empty, what is the best kind of tablet to keep in it?
I appreciate your help!

[aylad]

IF it's an inline chlorinator, the only kind of tabs you can put in it is trichlor--but don't get the "dual acting" ones, because the "dual" means they've added copper. Watch out, though, because it will lower your pH, and yours is already on the low end. It's okay where it is, and you don't necessarily need to add any Borax, but just make sure the trichlor doesn't drop it below 7.0

Janet

[nthach]

IF it's an inline chlorinator, the only kind of tabs you can put in it is trichlor--but don't get the "dual acting" ones, because the "dual" means they've added copper. Watch out, though, because it will lower your pH, and yours is already on the low end. It's okay where it is, and you don't necessarily need to add any Borax, but just make sure the trichlor doesn't drop it below 7.0

Janet

You can also buy cal hypo tablets too - I know Leslie's can order it from PPG.

[aylad]

yes, but they are usually enclosed in plastic, and you cannot use them in a chlorinator.

Janet

[mrszaff]

I received my test kit in the mail today. Here are the readings I get,
Free CHlorine 0
CC .2
PH 7.3
Alk 70
CYA is showing > 100 is that possible?

I will shock again tomorrow and try watermom's advice

[Watermom]

Yes, it is possible to have a cya > 100. The cya test is the hardest test to read. Try it again and see what you get. If you have been using trichlor tabs for a long time, it may very well be over 100. If that is the case, if it were my pool, I'd do a partial drain and refill. (probably about half the water which would take your cya down to 50 and would be much more manageable.)

Alk and pH are ok.

Also, do shock the pool. How does the water look?

[mrszaff]

I'll try it again tomorrow, the pool looks perfect.
thanks

[mrszaff]

hi all,
Since my last post 6/16 I only added 1 gallon of liquid shock and my chlorine has stayed pretty steady.I haven't added anything since. I Just let the chlorinator run. Here are the readings I got today with my very own test kit.

Free Chlorine 4.5
CC .5
PH 7.1
Alk 60
CYA is still>100 unless I am doing it wrong, I noticed when Leslies did it a month ago it was 35

how much baking soda and borax should I add?

The pool is clear and 80 degrees, I back washed this morning and it looked a little cloudy/white coming out of the hose, I rinsed it as well.

thanks!

[waterbear]

The only "gimmick" I've seen that somewhat works is Green To Clean.

.
This is just a source of organic ammonia to create monochloramine and negate the effects of high CYA. It (and sodium bromide) are often a cure worse than the disease since they create a huge chlorine demand after.
Monochloramine does help kill algae since they see it as a food source, a lethal one.

[waterbear]

You can also buy cal hypo tablets too - I know Leslie's can order it from PPG.

cal hypo tablets cannot be used in an unvented erosion feeder! To do so is dangerous. There are special cal hypo feeders available for cal hypo tabs .
Also you should NEVER mix trichlor and cal hypo. It can cause an explosion!

There are several brands of cal hypo tabs besides the PPG ones but they all dissolve rather fast so they are not suitable for erosion feeders. They are used in skimmers or special vented feeders.

[aylad]

It doesn't surprise me that your CYA is over 100--the trichlor pucks in the chlorinator are not only raising your CYA with each puck that you add, but also driving your pH downward. I strongly recommend that you stop using the pucks except in emergencies (vacations, etc) and switch to liquid chlorine, or bleach.

Also, with a CYA that high and keeping the chlorine at 4-5, you are walking a very fine line between a clear pool and algae problems. With a CYa at 100 or above, you should be keeping your Cl at 8-15 ppm at all times.

If you stop using the trichlor and aerate your water, the pH will probably rise on its own. If you plan to continue using the trichlor, I'd start with about 1/2 box of Borax and aim for somewhere in the 7.5-7.6 area for pH. It's always better to add a little at a time and "sneak up" on your target number, than to overshoot it and have to correct. Same goes for baking soda to raise the alk--it only needs to come up a little bit, so I'd start with a box and go from there.

Janet

[mrszaff]

so I should shut off the chlorinator, and run the filter(is that what you mean by aerate) and add liquid chlorine? Is that correct?

[aylad]

If it were my pool, I would shut off the chlorinator, switch to bleach or liquid chlorine (same thing, bleach is 6% sodium hypochlorite, liquid chlorine is 10-12%), and aerate the water by either tossing in a group of rowdy kids, turning your return eyes upward so they ripple the water surface, and/or adding a fountain. This will stop the CYA rise, stop the pH plunge, and raise your pH to a little higher level.

If you continue to use the chlorinator, it won't be long before you have CYA levels so high that you can't maintain high enough chlorine levels to keep it clear. I'd hate to see you fighting algae all summer when it can be prevented!!



Janet

[mrszaff]

ok thanks. by the way I have been adding bleach all summer but my chlorine kept going to zero in 24 hours until this week, then I turned on the clorinator because it finally stuck. It only has 2 tabs in it that' s why I was doubting my numbers. I just threw in a gallon of liquid shock and shut off the chlorinator, the filter is on.

thanks again

[aylad]

This is a long thread, and for some reason I'm having trouble locating the volume of your pool. Since you "threw in a gallon of liquid shock", did you test for chlorine to see how high your chlorine is right now? What type of "liquid shock" did you use? You really need to get the chlorine up to at least 8 ppm.......

Janet

[mrszaff]

sodium hypochlorite,12.5%
21000 gallons in ground vinyl
I will test it again in the am and add more if needed.
keep you posted
thanks again

[aylad]

In 21K gallons, 1 gallon of 12.5% should have raised your FC by 6 ppm. I would definitely test again in the morning and add more to get back up to at least 8--and I would probably shoot for 10, just to be safe.

Janet