View Full Version : Yellow Staining, Acorbic Acid Works Well, BUT.....
pilot-werx
05-24-2010, 06:53 AM
Hi All,
First post here and hoping Marie or anyone can help me out. After having black bark mulch blow into the pool on the few windy days we had, I began to notice the pool steps and liner begin to turn yellow. The pool is in-ground, 25000 gal, hayward sand filter, hayward super pump, raypak heater, inline chlorinator.
The people who put the pool in recommended sprinkling ascorbic acid over the steps and putting the rest (2lbs) in the skimmer. The staining went away within an hour. However, the moment I started to bring the chlorine up, the staining came back. Again, I did the ascorbic acid treatment and all was well until the I started adding chlorine back in...
I had emailed Alan at www.askalanaquestion.com and he said I should use ascorbic acid and follow that with Liquid Metal Out. Of course his website says nothing but good about the Liquid Metal Out, but has anyone here used it? If not, is there a Metal Out product that you have used? Since the local pool stores here carry nothing, can you point me in the direction of where I might be able to order?
Thank you for your help!
Regards,
Chris
Watermom
05-24-2010, 07:37 AM
Hi, Chris and welcome to the forum! I'm going to alert Marie to take a look at this thread for you.
Hi Chris, welcome to the forum:) You always need to follow ascorbic acid treatment with a metal out (sequestering agent). Any good metal sequestering agent will do - good ones usually run about $20 a bottle. I have used Jack's Magic, Sequasol, Metal Magic, and a few others that all seem to work the same. I put the metal out in as soon as all the stain is lifted (about a half hour later). The reason you need a sequestering agent is because the ascorbic acid lifts the stain off the surface of the pool, putting the metals back into solution. The sequestering agent then holds the metals in solution keeping them from redepositing onto the surface of the pool. Try to keep your ph on the low side for a while. High chlorine along with high ph is what causes metal to fall out of solution. If the metals stains start to come back when raising the chlorine levels, take the ph back down to 7.2 , and add more sequestering agent - this will usually remove any light stains that are starting. Please give me a set of your pool chemistry numbers (ch, ph, alk, calcium, and cya). If you have any questions feel free to ask:)
pilot-werx
05-24-2010, 07:55 PM
Thank you for the reply.
My numbers as of a few moments ago are:
chlorine : 0.5ppm
ph: 7.6
alkalinity: 90
calcium: 250
cya: 50
I am a little concerned with the chlorine that low as with the water heated to 82, it is only a matter of time before algae forms... However, right now the water is crystal crystal clear...
What are your thoughts on oxalic acid instead of ascorbic? The reason I ask is that oxalic is half the cost of ascorbic around here. I think there is a dealer close by that has Pro Teams Metal Magic. I will pick some up and try that.
How do my water balance numbers look?
Thank you for your help.
Chris
chem geek
05-24-2010, 08:47 PM
People have used citric acid, which is also less expensive, and it seems to work but just takes somewhat longer. I know that oxalic acid is also a reducing agent so in theory it should work, but I don't know how well.
As for preventing algae, one usually adds PolyQuat 60 to the water when doing an ascorbic acid (or citric or oxalic acid) treatment in order to prevent algae from growing during the treatment.
I second what chemgeek said. I have used citric acid and it works well. You just have to use more of it. Here is a link to ascorbic that isn't too expensive:
http://www.msm-msm.com/store/agora.cgi
Here is one for citric acid:
http://www.chemistrystore.com/search.cgi?keywords=citric+acid&Click+to+Search2.x=0&Click+to+Search2.y=0
The rest of your numbers look good. I always use the polyquat 60 when doing the ascorbic acid - especially if the water is warm, you also want to keeep your ph levels at 7.0 to 7.4 while slowly raising the chlorine levels back up. Let us know how you do, and if you have any other questions
staclear
06-07-2010, 11:52 AM
How well the Citric Acid works on Gunite walls ? How many pounds I need for 23000 Gallons of water to remove brownish yellow stain due to winter elements.
Citric acid will work, however you will need more citric acid than ascorbic acid. I would start with about 5 lbs of citric acid. Pour 1/2 in and put your filter on circulate. Add enough sequestering agent (metal out) per directions on the bottle. You can add a little more of it later if you need to. Allow the pump to circulate for a couple of hours. If the there is still staining add more citric acid. Once all of the stain is lifted you can put the pool back on filter. Make sure you have the sequestering agent in the water or when you start to balance the water you will just get the stains back. After the stain is gone and you rebalance the water, if the stain returns then you bring your ph back down to 7.2 and add more sequestering agent. Feel free to ask any other questions you have
pilot-werx
06-08-2010, 08:15 AM
So the plot thickens........... I had did the ascorbic acid and metal out and was trying to keep the chlorine down... We have gotten about 3 inches of rain in the past two days and the pool is now awful. The water is now milky white to the point where you cannot see the bottom step. So frustrating seeing the water was crystal clear. Any ideas before I get the backhoe and end my headaches? So I have got the chlorine tabs in the skimmer as well as in the chlorinator..
any help would be appreciated...
Watermom
06-08-2010, 09:47 AM
Go ahead and post a current set of water testing results also, please.
pilot-werx
06-08-2010, 10:07 AM
Here is where I am at with the water...
TC: 10ppm
FC: 10ppm
pH: 7.4
alk:120
cya: 100
My chlorine numbers are not going to be all that accurate because I just dumped two gallons of shock in it an hour ago.
I could care less about swimming in it over the next couple of days so I am hoping that by keeping the chlorine hi I can clear it up...
Where I was keeping the chlorine low for a few days, I added some algaecide to help keep the algae away so I am hoping that is not a problem..
The fight goes on!
pilot-werx
06-08-2010, 10:11 AM
I also had the analyticals done on my water and copper is the problem to the iron that I originally thought...
Your cya is very high. Is it possible to do a partial drain and refill? You will have to get your chlorine up to 25ppms to shock, and a minimum of 8 just to keep it sanitized. Sometimes after the ascorbic acid treatment the water gets cloudy. A partial drain will help the pool to clear faster, but is your fill water the problem, or do you think the metals came in another way? If it is your fill water you will need to put in more sequestering agent when filling. What is your calcium level? If your calcium level is high and your alkalinity is at the high end you can be getting some fallout from that, which will cloud the water and the only way to get rid of high calcium is to do a partial drain. You can also use skimmer socks. Otherwise you just need more POP - pool owners patience:eek:
pilot-werx
06-14-2010, 09:28 PM
Well after shocking the pool and adding putting tabs in the skimmer, the pool is clear again but the brown is back again...
Can you please give the name of the best metal out product so I can order it?
Regards and thank you ever so much for your help!
Chris
Proteams Metal Magic is good, Jack's Magic is good, Sequasol. Any one that is strong, or super. They are usually $18 - $24. You will notice that as the chorine level comes down and the ph is low (no higher than 7.4) the stains will start to lighten, and adding the sequestering agent should really make them disappear. Let me know how you do:)
CarlD
06-15-2010, 06:50 AM
Glad the cloudiness cleared up.
I sure hope those weren't Tri-Chlor tabs you put in the skimmer! With your CYA of 100, those are the worst things to use as they will send your CYA into even worse zones.
Remember Marie suggesting you drain and refill to reduce CYA? It will be even more necessary! ALL tri-chlor tabs release large amounts of CYA whether they are listed as "stabilized" or not. Don't use them with your current water situation!.
If, however, you used Cal-Hypo tabs (which I highly doubt) and your calcium hardness level is reasonable, then you'd be fine.
pilot-werx
06-22-2010, 08:35 PM
Some good news... With the water cleared up, I added 4 pounds of ascorbic acid followed by two bottles of pro team metal magic and so far this is the best it has looked after a week... fingers crossed...
waterbear
06-23-2010, 12:50 AM
People have used citric acid, which is also less expensive, and it seems to work but just takes somewhat longer. I know that oxalic acid is also a reducing agent so in theory it should work, but I don't know how well.
FWIW, oxalic acid is what is used in United Chemical's Pool Stain Treat and Pool Stain Treat spotting bags. I can't really tell a difference in how fast it works compared to Ascorbic acid but Citric does seem to be a bit slower. However oxalic acid is the most toxic of the three with ascorbic acid being the least toxic.
Make sure as you raise your chlorine levels you add more sequestering agent if you see stains coming back. Add the chlorine slowly - that's why I like to add bleach. You can add it in small amounts till you get it where you need it to be.