Tagelus diverter / spider gasket

[RobDHW]

Hi - I've got a Tagelus TA-50D sand filter that needs a new spider gasket. I'm getting water leaking out of my backwash hose. I understand that this also may be the cause of dirt getting back in my IG pool (please confirm). I've pulled off the top part of my filter and seen the bad gasket. It does appear to be glued on. Now, I suppose that I could scrape out the old one & glue a new one in, but I haven't seen a part number for it, and Pentair only sells the diverter. I'm happy to buy a new diverter (as opposed to the whole thing) but I can't figure out how to get the old diverter off the handle / spring thing. I know my local pool store won't give me a straight answer. Could someone help? Thanks in advance.

UPDATE - so, 2 more things. At the pool store today I found out that once I pull off the handle / valve assy. (which I had w/ me) if I rotate the handle between the Closed setting & Backwash setting then I can take the handle off by removing a phillips head screw. My new diverter will be here Wednesday - stay tuned. Also, when I reinstalled the handle /valve assy. - what do I use to lube the spider gasket? Pentair wants me to use 3M 847 Gasket Grip but don't I want to use the pool lube / teflon stuff? Pentair specifically says "Don't Use Vaseline"?

Thoughts?

-Rob

[Watermom]

Rob, did you get your problem solved? Welcome to the forum, BTW.

[Poconos]

Answer to your first question, yes. Bad gasket can cause unwanted flow paths. I never heard of any lube on these things as I would suspect it would quickly wash off unlike O-rings or other gasket seals. They are glued in so you have to scrape out the channels it sits in before gluing the new one in. You can use a small flat blade screwdriver that fits in the channel for the scraping. When I replaced mine I also got in there with some sandpaper to rough up the channel before using silicone seal to stick the new one in. I know, most say don't use silicone seal. That 3m 847 looks like it would work fine. It's what glues it into the channel. Not a lube.
Hope this helps.
Al

[RobDHW]

So, I'm actually not sure if I have fixed my problem, for couple of reasons.

1) The handle unscrews from the diverter assembly by putting it in the filter position. Then there's access to the screw.

2) I bought the whole diverter, since I couldn't find just the spider gasket. The gasket comes glued into the diverter, but I was told to "lube it" like an O-ring.

Now... virtually nothing has changed. I still have dirt in the pool - no more or less than ever. I do have 1 tree near the pool, and our neighborhood is like a squirrel resort - so maybe it's just the squirrels knocking stuf into the pool from the tree.

BUT - I'm still kind of getting water out of my backwash hose in Filter mode... but if I take the backwash hose & bend it at a right angel to the ground (pointing up at the sky) it only seems to fill up to the level of the pipes running out from the pump to the pool. I'm surmising that it's because my pool level is higher than the pump.

That's where I'm at...

Thanks for te welcoming greeting.
-Rob

[Poconos]

Rob,
Strange. First on the gasket, if the manufacturer says lube it, I guess do it. I still have never seen any reference to doing that but I don't know everything. If I read your post right it looks like the water in the turned up waste hose reaches the level of the pool water. Is this with the pump running? If the pump is off I would understand the levels. Pump on, the water in the waste line is at some pressure so I think it would be a lot higher than the pool water level. However, should not be. The waste port should be closed. The only time that port should be connected to anything is in the backwash, waste, and rinse positions. Something still isn't right with that valve. Only thing I can suggest is open it up and look again.
Al

[RobDHW]

Poconos - I REALLY appreciate your input! I'm with you. You're reading my post correctly. Something is messed up. I do know that with the pump running, the water in the waste hose does go to what, I think, is the pool level. If I leave the multi-port set to "rinse" with the pump off it might as well be called "drain the pool".

I'm actually out of town right now, but I have taken the thing apart a few times, poked around and can't find anything wrong. What this means is that I'm missing something. All I can think of is that I need a new multi-port. I'll be back home on the weekend & will go back at it then, but I'm totally mystified.

It is nice to know that I'm on the right track...

-Rob

[Poconos]

In the rinse mode you would have a siphon going. Skimmer to pump to filter to waste line.
In the filter position that waste line should be totally blocked. Put it in that position and with the pump off try blowing into the waste line and see if you can move air. If you can then something is leaking which I suspect. Sounds like you can take that valve off easily so you may take it off and blow in the various ports to help isolate the problem. In filter mode, waste port blocked. Rinse, backwash, and waste positions, outlet to return line blocked. If you had it plumbed wrong you would have major problems, not these subtle things. This problem will be solved eventually. Keep at it.
Al

[RobDHW]

I agree with all you've said Poconos. As I remember, a few years back a local pool company was trying to figure out a problem we had & they "couldn't". I think they were pressure testing the lines & their readings weren't making sense. I know that a skimmer was "moved" long before we bought the house. The former owner and former pool company were useless. short of ripping up the yard, I'm think I'm stuck w/ the way it is, at least until the filter dies, or we get an underground leak (knock wood - I hope that's decades from now). Thanks for confirming what I've always suspected : our pool was plumbed by Mario & Luigi... the Mario Bros.

[Watermom]

Rob -- I just had to tell you --- I am the one who moderated your post in after you posted and when I read it, your last comment made me laugh! Thanks for the chuckle. That was great!

[RobDHW]

Glad that it got the desired effect. Gotta have a sense of humor...

[RobDHW]

Just as an FYI - I just backwashed my filter and left the pump off, but w/ the multi-port set to "filter". My backwash hose fills up to the return pipe level. I never did get around to blowing into it, but now I think I don't have to. Seems like a bad multi-port to me. Guess I'll be replacing that sometime.... Right now it's not causing me enough grief to spend the time & effort.

-Rob

[RobDHW]

I finally got around to blowing into the waste line. I think I moved water, although if it was from the skimmer or return I'm not sure. I might mess with it over the weekend, but I'm inclined to think that I'll really work on it when I close the pool in the fall. Taking the multi-port off the filter is not easy, do to the way I've replaced some PVC, so I'd just as soon do that over correctly at the same time. Once i've got it open I'll probably change the sand & check the laterals too. Thanks all for your help. I love the fact that I'm not scared of my pool stuff any more and really understand how it works.
-Rob

[RobDHW]

I GOT IT!
Why I didn't think of this before is beyond me... DOAH!
So, the original spider gasket really was bad. My general feeling was that the problem got worse (a bit) after I replaced the gasket. Since things bug me 'til no end until I figure them out, I've kept learning & thinking. Finally I just pulled the diverter back off. I wiped off the lube from the gasket (but relubed the o-ring) since no one ever heard of that before (thank you forum & no thanks pool store). I also felt around, since it *looked* fine, the area where the spider gasket makes contact inside the valve. It didn't feel perfectly smooth. This is the key - I took some superfine 0000 steel wool & carefully cleaned the area inside the valve where the spider gasket makes contact to ensure there was no gunk there & it was smooth.
No longer am I getting leaking to Waste when filtering.
"Party on Wayne..."

[Poconos]

Good work Rob. I know that feeling when something bugs you to the point you can't stop thinking about it. Sometimes the answer comes at the strangest moments. Enjoy the pool and have a Happy and safe 4th.
Al

[RobDHW]

Thanks Poconos. One thing that I noticed tonight too - pool circulation is much improved also. It's better now than when we bought the house 8 years ago.
Happy 4th weekend!

[RobDHW]

Well, the problem reappeared after a backwash. Interestingly enough a day later the top to the multi-port started leaking, where the handle / diverter bolt on. Hi-ho, hi-ho it's to the pool store we go (whistle along).... Grabbed a new o-ring, no more leaking from the multi-port, or out the waste port. The top did seem to rest a bit higher, before I screwed it down. We'll see what happens after a backwash. What I'm thinking : the old o-ring was worn enough where the pressure was high enough to lift the top enough to let crud slide under the spider gasket. I can justify anything.... I've thought I've had this fixed a bunch now. *sigh* stay tuned...

[Poconos]

Hey, at least you're laughing and whistling about it rather that crying. It's always something. As long as you make progress, keep whistling. Could be the handle and the valve piece that has to seat all the way, wasn't seating.
Al

[RobDHW]

Al - I don't think it was a handle / diverter seating issue. That all seemed fine - except if the pressrue was allowing it to rise up & unseat *just enough*. It's the only thing I can think of that makes any sense. If this doesn't do it, I'll have to replace the whole stinkin' valve. That's an end of season / shutdown for winter plumbing job.
Gotta laugh... if I don't I'll post a "For Sale" sign in the front yard...