New to BBB

[rkelly]

I have been using regular chlorine for years and am disgusted with the constant work involved. I have just found this forum and am interested in the BBB method. My pool is a vinyl IG pool with 19,300 gals.

My readings:
FC - 1
TC - 3
TA - 80
CYA - 0
PH-- 6.8
I have added 2 bottles of stabilizer in the last week but I still get "0" and water is still cloudy.

Any help would be appreciated......

[aylad]

First off, let me say welcome to the forum! We're glad to have you here!!

The first thing I see in looking at your numbers is that your pH is too low--anything below 7.0 runs a risk of damaging your liner. So a priority for me would be to get the pH up, and I would do it using 20-mule team Borax from the laundry aisle at WalMart. (green box). I would start with about 2 cups, dissolved in water and then poured slowly down the skimmer. Give it a couple of hours to circulate, then retest for it. Many pH test blocks only go to 6.8, and if that's the case, your pH could well be below that, so after you test, you can add more 1-2 cups at a time until you get the pH into the 7.2-7.6 range.

When you say you've added 2 bottles of stabilizer, are you talking about the granular type? If so, did you add it through the skimmer or broadcast into the pool? The granular type is very slow to dissolve and register on the tests, so we usually recommend that you add it, through the skimmer or in an old sock tied in front of a return, and then wait 4-5 days to retest for it. The problem with testing and adding too quickly is that, by the time it does register, often you've overshot your target and either need to drain/refill some water or use higher chlorine levels to compensate.

I'm assuming the active ingredient in the stabilizer you put in is cyanuric or isocyanuric acid--if not, then we really need to know what it was. Also, what is the total amount of stabilizer in each bottle?

Regarding the cloudiness of the water--looks like you might have an algae bloom trying to start..if your FC =1 and TC =3, then you have a CC of 2 and need to shock the pool. If the CYA is 0, then you need to raise your FC to 10-12 ppm and keep it there until the pool clears. Run your filter 24/7 while doing this, and backwash it as needed when the pressure rises as the dead algae is filtered out.

I know it's a lot of information to process at once, but once you get a grasp on it, this method of pool care is really very easy to maintain, and LOTS cheaper than the alternatives!

Janet

[rkelly]

I will stop by store on the way home and get some Borax. Should I work on the PH and then shock or can I do both at same time? I have 2 gals of clorox at home so I guess I will need more for this.
The stabilizer was from Lowe's, It was granular and I think it was 2 lbs per jug. I added 1 through the skimmer and 1 drectly to the deep end.
Thanks for the info.....

[aylad]

I would go ahead and get the pH up first--hopefully it's only 6.8 and the first addition will get it up above 7.0, then you can go on with your shock. If it's below that, getting it up is gonna be more critical to preserving your liner.

Have you backwashed your filter since you added the stabilizer through the skimmer? If so, then you've backwashed it out and that's why it's not showing up. You'll need to add more, but don't backwash for at least a week after the addition. If not, then just give it 3-4 more days before you try to test for it, because it does take a long time to dissolve. AS for the stabilizer in the bottom of the pool, make sure that you're brushing it around on a regular basis so it doesn't sit on your liner and stain it.

Janet

[Watermom]

You have been given some good advice by Janet. To answer your question, it is fine to work on ph and shock at the same time.

You have a bit of a quandry. You don't really want cyanuric ACID laying on your lner. Typically, when people have broadcast it into the pool instead of into the skimmer or in a sock in front of a return jet as Janet mentioned, we advise them to vacuum it up and let it dissolve in the filter. But, since it dissolves so slowly (may take up to a week) you can't backwash or you just end up throwing the cya out. If you are fighting some algae, you'll most likely need to vacuum this week and thus the cya would be thrown out.

You'll have to decide if you want the cyanuric acid granules laying on your liner or do you want to end up maybe wasting it by backwashing the filter if you vac it up?

I also have a question about your testing numbers. You say that your water is cloudy, not green, yet you have a CC reading of 2. That is odd for a pool that isn't full of algae. I have a feeling that maybe your testing numbers are wrong. FC + CC = TC. FC is free chlorine which is chlorine that is available to sanitize water. CC is combined chlorine that has already been used sanitizing something organic in the pool. TC is total chlorine. Like I said, it is unusual for a pool to have a CC reading that high if there is not a big algae problem going on. Can you retest your numbers again and repost?

And, Jan is right. Your ph is priority!! Get that Borax in.

[rkelly]

AHHHHH!!!! I have been vacuuming and backwashing during this week......so I mostlikely have dumped it out. I also am using test strips and a Guardex kit (I think)(for TC and PH).

[aylad]

Ok, that's why you don't have any CYA. Hopefully you've vac'd up all the stuff that was laying on your liner too. So...I know that 4 lbs of CYA granules takes my 29K gallon pool up to about 20 ppm, so I would only put one 2 lb bottle into yours--but look at the label because you want to target around 20 and then tweak it from there. In your case, where you're going to be vacuuming/backwashing to fight the algae bloom, I would pour the stuff in an old tube sock or knee-hi hose and hang it in front of a return. That way you can backwash and not wash all of it out. Once you see the amount diminishing in the sock, you can test for it again and expect it to register, although keep in mind that cloudy water will usually alter the test result.

I very strongly recommend that you buy a drop-based test kit. WalMart used to carry one for about $15 that tested for TC, pH, CYA, TA, and CH that would work in a pinch, but I will be the first to tell you that one of the good kits, even if it's in the 70-100 dollar range, will save you that much money tens of times over in useless time, chems, trouble, and pool down-time that you'll save by having control over your pool.Taylor makes a K-2006 kit that has everything in it that you would need. You will find that test strips are inaccurate when it comes to the measurements that you're going to need. They're ok for ballpark "snapshots" of you water when things are going well, but pretty much useless when it comes to clearing up a problem.

Janet

[rkelly]

I added the Borax, now will wait to check PH.....

[Watermom]

Yeah -- wait at least 3 or 4 hours.

[rkelly]

PH is now 7.4

[Watermom]

PH of 7.4 is perfect! Did you get a testkit that uses drops yet and if so, can you run a full set of complete testing numbers and post them here for us to take a look. How does the pool look today?

[rkelly]

Still can't see the bottom in the deep end. I did not get a new test kit yet, but will try to get by after work.

[aylad]

You're going to need a chlorine test that will give you results up to at least 20 ppm--look for a DPD-FAS chlorine test--uses a tablet or powder that goes into your water sample with drops you drop in and count. It's possible to do this with the smaller test block using a dilution method, but we'll be wildly guessing at accuracy, and since you're gonna need it later anyway, it's best to go ahead and get it now if you can. Knowing exact measurements will hel you get it cleared up much quicker.

Janet

[AnnaK]

Since you mentioned dilutions, might this be a good time to reiterate the shot glass method? CarlD or Poconos invented that, I think. It's bailed me out a couple of times when the test kit I had wasn't adequate.

[CarlD]

Dilution of OTO test kits is nothing new and I didn't invent it, nor do I think Poconos did.

But I came up with the Shot Glass Method as a catchy phrase and a simple and convenient way to EXACTLY measure distilled water and pool water in small, manageable amounts. Since a shot glass is glass, it's inert.

[rkelly]

OK....pool is clear......

FC - 1
TC - >3
PH - 7.8
TA - 80
CA - 20 (between 0 and 30)
Water looks pretty good right now

[Watermom]

I don't think your chlorine readings are right. FC + CC = TC. Always. If you had a TC reading greater than 3 and your FC was 1, then your CC reading would be over 2 (which would be a bad thing) and your pool would most likely be green, not clear. Retest the FC and TC again and then repost.

Also, by CA, are you referring to CYA (stabilizer level)?

[rkelly]

Yes, I was referring to CYA. I will check chlorine again. For some reason I dumped about 1/2 gal. of clorox in and then checked????? I will wait till tomorrow to check again.

Thanks.......

[rkelly]

How often do you shock with the BBB method. I usually did every Sunday night using shock. Do I need to shock the same way?

[Watermom]

Honestly, if you are diligent about keeping your water levels in check, you don't routinely have to shock the pool at all. Or, at least not very often. I seldom shock my pool because I spend the 5 minutes per day (at most) testing and adding bleach or Borax if necessary. Since I don't let the cl level in my pool get too low, I know there is nothing growing in there. Thus, I do not routinely need to shock. I might shock if we have had a lot of rain that dumped a lot debris in my pool (leaves, dirt, etc.) or if I have had a bunch of kids swimming.

But --- if you feel more comfortable routinely shocking the pool, go ahead. It isn't gonna hurt anything to do so.

[aylad]

. I usually did every Sunday night using shock. need to


Remember, shock is something you do TO your pool, not an ingredient you put in it. If the "shock" you're talking about is pre-packaged dichlor, then I would stop using it, because everytime you use it, it raises your CYA....it won't be long before you're going to have to up your base chlorine level to compensate for the higher CYA levels. That's one of the problems with the pool-store version of shock--they sell you packaged "shock", which raises CYA, which raises base chlorine requirements, but they don't tell you that--so when your pool gets cloudy and green because the chlorine is too low, they sell you more "shock", and raise the CYA further. After several cycles of this, people usually find their way to this forum and realize that the "shock" they keep adding is the problem. (It also contributes to low pH problems). If you'll use bleach or liquid chlorine both for shocking and for regular chlorination, it will not drive up your CYA,will not drive down your pH, and will save you lots of time and aggravation in the long run!

Janet

[chem geek]

In effect, when one has an appropriate Free Chlorine (FC) level relative to the Cyanuric Acid (CYA) level based on Ben's Best Guess CYA chart, then you are continually oxidizing bather waste and other organics and preventing algae growth with no need to shock the pool (i.e. no need to periodically raise the FC level).

The main reason shocking is needed in non-BBB pool care is that the CYA level climbs and the FC level is too low so that you need to periodically raise the FC level weekly to try and catch up. Eventually, you fall behind anyway and get mysterious chlorine demand or dull/cloudy water or visible green algae. All of this is avoided with BBB by simply maintaining a consistent and appropriate FC/CYA ratio. So simple, yet so effective.

Richard

[rkelly]

Thanks so much for all your help and advice.....