1st time pool owner

[hamiltonmike]

hello everyone

last august i purchased a house which came with this pool. my intentions were to tear it down as the tarp had fallen in,the water was greener than any pool i had ever saw, and it was stated that no pool equiptment was included. well once i moved in i realized that the pump and filter were left behind . the pump is a jacuzzi 3/4hp(not positive) and a jacuzzi sand filter.

i decided to hook it up and if all was running well i would attempt to get it swimmable. well i probably spent close to $300 in chemicals and just as i was closing it, i could see the bottom!!!!! well i pulled off the tarp last week and to my amazement the pool was crystal clear, but the bottow and sides were quite dirty so i brushed the sidewalls and bottom. BIG MISTAKE i think, as it stirred up alot of dirt and the pool went green almost over night.

so i took a sample to the pool shoppe and this is what i got

chlorine 0.15
p.h 7.3
alkalinity 80
stabalizer 2015

pool adjustments

broadcast 2.2 kg of buffer
add 5l of chlorine(i added 10)

add 750 gm stabalizer once clear

sound about right??

buffer is ph stabalizer and stabalizer is oxy out....correct?



i also have a very very basic question(dont laugh haha)

i cannot for the life of me figure out how to properly hook up the vaccum :|
last year i got it to work once(properly? not sure), and within a minute i had to tear down the pump to get all the debris out of it.


hoping someone can put their 2 cents in

much appreciated

mike

[CarlD]

There's a lot here but hopefully others will kick in.

Your Stabilizer level cannot be right--it might be 20.15, but not 2015.

Brushing your pool was ABSOLUTELY the right thing to do, but if it costs you $300 in chemicals you were possibly "POOLSTORED!"

You didn't say how big the pool is.

I'm not sure I know what "buffer" is.

Seriously, I suggest you go tonight to our various topics and read the stickied sections, especially those authored by Pooldoc, Watermom, aylad, Poconos, or myself, CarlD. We cover algae, chemicals, testing, spring opening and just about everything you raised questions about.

As for the vacuum: Do you make sure it's full of water first? Do you plug it into the skimmer or a low drain, and shut off the other when you do? Do you set the filter to "Waste" so the stuff goes down the drain and not into your sand? Air bubbles are the bane of vacuums. The EASIEST way to fill the hose is to hold it to the return with the pump running. That pushes water in and air out.--keep both ends under water!

[Watermom]

To add to what Carl said, also go and buy yourself a drops-based test kit (no test strips) so you can test your own water. You can probably find something at a Walmart. They usually have a 5-way kit that will suffice for now. You need to be able to test AT LEAST 2 of the following: FC- free chlorine, CC- combined chlorine, TC - total chlorine. Also, PH and TA (alkalinity). If your pool is not a liner pool, you'll also need to be able to test calcium hardness. Not sure if any of the cheap kits will let you test CYA (cyanuric acid, also called stabilizer) or not. Cant remember. It has been awhile since I looked at some of those cheaper kits.

After you do some reading as Carl suggested, test your own water and re-post with your numbers and we'll help you get this thing going!

BTW -- Welcome to the forum!

[hamiltonmike]

thank you carld for your reply.


my pool is an older oval above ground measuring roughly 18'x36'
the book says it is roughly 75,800 litres


as far as the vacuum goes, i have been searching high and low for instructions and came up empty handed. what i did learn is that the hoses has to be filled so i have been manually filling it with a hose, then plugging it into my skimmer. what i havent been doing is changing the setting on the filter DOH

my options are winterize,test,drain,backwash,filter and whirlpool so ill assume it i should set it to drain? i will also assume i should have the hose filling the pool as i am going to lose alot of water...correct?


the chemicals they sold me were: PH^ ,Buffer(ph stabalizer written below), some chlorine pucks, and a small bottle of oxy out.


yes it is possible that it reads 20.15. it is not a computer printout(its written)


beleive it or not i have been doing a ton of reading. most information i find is vague, and they assume i have a basic knowledge which i don't :(


so far the only thing i have added to the pool is 10litres of liquid chloring(3 days ago)
the pump has been running 24/7 and as of today the water is now aqua(not koolaid green) and i can see the bottom somewhat(well i can see huge dark spots which must be debris)


should i wait til it clears to try and vacuum it again?

[hamiltonmike]

thank you watermom for your reply as well


i do have a test kit which is not strips. it only tests ph and chlorine however.

so i should go and buy one that allows me to do 5 tests? i would of bought the bigger testers from the beginning but was told i wouldnt need it..grrrrr
i will go and find one tonight.

my pool does have a vinyl liner


i will test the water and give the results

the test results above were done 3 days ago at the pool shoppe


and thank you for the welcome!

[Watermom]

Can you take a net and try and get most of the debris out? Usually, you vacuum to filter and then backwash when your pressure rises 8-10 psi over clean filter pressure. But, if you are vacuuming up a lot of debris, you can vac to drain. (I assume that setting is the same as the 'waste' setting on most filters.) Yes, you will lose a lot of water. You might try vacuuming to filter first and see how fast your filter pressure rises.

Also, right now, don't add any chemicals to your water except chlorine. Liquid chlorine or bleach will be best right now. You need to tackle the algae problem first before you try to make a lot of other adjustments. Run your pump 24/7 while you are trying to clear your pool and keep an eye on the pressure gauge. You may need to backwash frequently if there is a lot of gunk in the pool.

Typically, when you are dealing with algae, you need to be adding chlorine more often than every three days. We are gonna need to know current chlorine readings. Most of the cheap test kits will only register to 5ppm. But, we can teach you a way to make it read a little higher. Not as accurately as a better test kit, but a ballpark figure. After you get your kit, will explain the "shot glass method." Ultimately, you'll want to invest in a better testkit, but this will work to get you started ---- unless your pool store sells a good test kit. If that is the case, you might just want to go ahead and buy a good test kit now. I can't recall the Taylor model we usually suggest, but somebody will most likely be along shortly that can fill that info in. Hope this helps.

BTW - I wouldn't even open up the stuff you bought at the pool store. After the algae is cleared up, we'll help you get your water balanced. You man not even need some of that stuff and may be able to take some of it back.

[hamiltonmike]

well i have been netting the bottom every day since i opened it and for the most part it seems to be just particulate dirt that the net wont grab. i will try to vacuum it again on the filter setting and see what happens. unfortunately the guage on the filter is broken so i cannot see what pressure it is reading.


the pool shoppe told me that i can add as much liquid chlorine as i like. is this true? will it help clear it any faster? i have 2 more 10litre jugs and was wondering if it would be wise to just add them in now. the liner is already pretty bleached so im not concerned about that.


i am backwashing at least twice a day right now

[Watermom]

I just looked it up and the Taylor K-2006 is the kit we usually suggest. Take a look at the following thread.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=9326

You can buy a new filter pressure gauge really cheap. Pick one up somewhere. You need to know your pressure readings. I wouldn't suggest adding "as much bleach as you like." Get us some current readings and we can suggest proper amounts. But, I will say, that if it has been 3 days since you added chlorine to a green pool with a very low cya (stabilizer) reading, it isn't likely that you have any chlorine left in there. Go ahead and add one more bottle of chlorine. Keep the pump running 24/7.

[CarlD]

If it's still green, then a 10L jug of liquid chlorine is a good idea. What is its concentration--6%, 10% or 12%?

I estimate your pool volume at closer to 65,000 liters, assuming a 4' depth. Even if the water if 5' deep your volume is 81-82000 liters.

Still the chlorine rule of thumb works for liters just as well as gallons:

1 liter of chlorine at 5.25% will add 5.25ppm to 10,000 liters of water. If you have 65,000 liters, you need 6.5 liters of chlorine to get the same level.

If your chlorine is 12%, 6.5 liters of chlorine will give you 12 ppm and 3 liters will give you 5.5ppm.

I suggest you do your main reading here and not at commercial sites. The chemical and pool store sites will give you erroneous information.

You really need to learn about the B-B-B method of pool maintenance, which stands for Bleach, Borax and Baking Soda--3 chemicals you do NOT need to buy in a pool store. Combined with Muriatic Acid (from hardware stores) the only chemicals you buy from a pool store are stabilizer and PolyQuat-type algaecide (never use any other algaecide).

It's actually all very simple. You are going to aim to keep your chlorine levels as a sanitary level, and your pH in the 7.2-7.8 range. Every other chemical is to help do that.

As for filling your vacuum hose: Hold it to the return opening from the pump that's in the pool rather than a garden hose. It has a much higher pressure and volume and will blow the air out of the hose--and will already be in the pool and under water. You'll SEE the air come out and the hose will sink!

[hamiltonmike]

ok, so i went and got a pressure guage for the filter and it is running at 10psi pretty consistantly

i took a water sample to be tested and the results were as follows

chlorine 3

ph 6.8

alkalinity 100

stabalizer 20

she said that because my water is pretty cold(55) that the reading may be a little off

she said i would be ok adding another jug of chlorine


this girl told me not to add anything other chemicals other than the chlorine until it is clear.


i looked at their testing kits and they are either really cheap (10-20$) or really expensive(100-200$) so i didnt pick one up. i will go to a few different shops tomorrow and see what they have .

[Watermom]

Yes, go ahead and add more chlorine.

Also, your ph is too low. Any readings below 7.0 are acidic and can damage your pool. Since most testers only register down to 6.8, your ph could actually be much lower than that. Add some 20 Mule Team Borax (from laundry aisle at Walmart) slowly into the skimmer, breaking up any clumps. This will raise your ph. I would probably start with 1/3 of the box. Then, wait 3 or 4 hours, and retest ph. Then, if it is still below 7.2, add some more. It may take several doses of Borax to bring you into range. (Anywhere between 7.2-7.8 is good, but while you are fighting algae, on the lower end of the range is best.)

Ignore the advice to not do anything but chlorine right now. It is CRITICAL that you get that ph level up ASAP. It is ok to add Borax and also chlorine now. But, don't add anything but those two things for now.
By the way, if the pool store tests your water until you get a good kit, that is ok, but don't buy anything unless you have advice from here that you need it. Pool stores often sell you stuff you don't need -- cuz they are trying to make money, of course!

Keep us posted how things are going.

[hamiltonmike]

well i added 10 litres of chlorine(10.3%) once the sun went down. ok, so borax is the equivelant of the chem i have called ph^ i will assume. right now i have quite a bit of ph^ left so first thing tomorrow i will go and buy a proper water testing kit and add ph^ until i reach 7.2-7.8(lower the better )

will i add the ph^ into the skimmer as well?
i was told by the "pro" to slowly pour it in front of the jet as i would chlorine?
the 6.8 reading should be correct as i took the water to the pool shoppe to be tested before i posted.

i can post a few pictures if that will help at all

i really REALLY appreciate the help


mike

[Watermom]

You can either pour it in the skimmer or in front of a return jet. The pool store may or may not have a system that has a ph scale that differentiates between 6.8 or lower. Many don't go lower than that. Hopefully, it is 6.8 and not lower.

The key to getting rid of algae is to sustain the high chlorine levels and not let it yo-yo up and down. It is best if you can test it at least twice a day and three times is even better and each time dose it back up with chlorine. Since you say that your cya level is around 20, you'll want to try and keep your chlorine at about 12ppm.

Glad to help. Keep us posted how it is going.

[CarlD]

pH Up (I assume that's what you mean by pH^) is sodium carbonate and will raise BOTH your pH and your total alkalinity.

Watermom suggested 20 Mule Team Borax because this will raise pH but not Total Alk.

BTW, when the pool store sells you the pH^ for some insane price, it's hard to believe it's the same chemical as Arm&Hammer Washing Soda (Not baking soda, but Washing Soda--in the yellow, not orange box)

And Total Alkalinity raiser is nothing but very, VERY expensive baking soda.

You will find that if one of the moderators contradicts another, that the contradictor is ALWAYS correct and saw something the contradictee missed or didn't know.

Edit: Let me be really clear about this: We mods trust each other completely, so when Watermom (Lisa) corrected me, my immediate response was "Oh! Lisa saw something I missed. Great! HamiltonMike will get the best advice that way!"

[hamiltonmike]

well i checked 2 walmarts and they only 2 way testers so i went to pioneer pools and bought what i thout was a 5 way tester but when i got home noticed it was 5 chemicals but only 4 tests; chlorine,ph,alk,acidity.

will this do for the time being while i order a proper kit or should i go and buy the 2006c for 119.99 :O

i got borax and bleach but couldnt find laundry soda at walmarts or sobeys grocery store


i tested the water this morning and got

chlorine 3+(test only goes to 3)

alk 80

ph just a shade lighter than 7.2 but darker than 6.8(if that makes sense)

so i added roughly a 1/4 of the box of borax to the skimmer

pool isnt looking much different than the past few days. the only time i noticed a change was after the initial shock(10l) but ive got a few more weeks until the temps are swimmable so hopefully it will be good to go by then

[chem geek]

BBB for bleach, borax and baking soda does not mean that you will be using all 3 of these chemicals on a regular basis. Bleach (or chlorinating liquid) is the primary product you will use regularly, adding it every day or two unless you have a pool cover in which case you might be able to add it twice a week. The Borax is used to raise pH and in your case is needed because your pH is low, but long-term you probably won't use it very often. The baking soda you may or may not need over time. BBB is more of a philosophy for maintaining your pool simply using store-bought chemicals when cheaper than pool store chemicals and using a good test kit to know what's going on in your pool.

You can get a Taylor K-2006 test kit at a good online price here (http://www.amatoind.com/taylor-k2006-test-p-555.html) (the "C" version you refer to is larger in size so is more expensive, but you can get that for a better price here (http://www.amatoind.com/k2006c-taylor-test-p-263.html)) or the TF-100 you can get here (http://tftestkits.net/Test-Kits-c4/) with the latter kit having more volume of reagents so is more comparably priced per test. A comparison of these two kits is in this post (http://www.troublefreepool.com/pool-school/pool_test_kit_comparison).

Use The Pool Calculator (http://www.thepoolcalculator.com/) to calculate dosages for adjustment. You usually add 1/2 or 2/3rds the amount and then retest in an hour so that you don't overshoot -- at least until you get comfortable with doing these adjustments.

[polyvue]

well i checked 2 walmarts and they only 2 way testers so i went to pioneer pools and bought what i thout was a 5 way tester but when i got home noticed it was 5 chemicals but only 4 tests; chlorine,ph,alk,acidity.

will this do for the time being while i order a proper kit or should i go and buy the 2006c for 119.99 :O
If you are keen on purchasing a K-2006C you should know that with typical once-a-week testing you're likely to have some of these 2 oz. reagents (especially some of the dye indicators) for a number of years. You're more likely to run through R-0010 Calcium Buffer, R-0013 CYA reagent and FAS-DPD Chlorine components (R-0871 and R-0870) in a short time.

Best pricing (exclusive of shipping) for the 2 oz. reagent kit:

Amatoind, Lincoln Aquatics, PoolCenter (all less than $100)

[Watermom]

While it is green, keep shocking the pool. A lot of people will shock the pool and then not add any more bleach until the chlorine level drops way down. This won't get rid of algae. You have to sustain the high cl reading to get rid of algae. Try and test at least twice (and three times is better) per day.

To make your test kit be able to test higher until you get a better kit, you can use a dilution method. Take one part pool water, and add an equal part of distilled water. Take some of this and fill your test vial. Then, multiply your test result by 2. If you need to go higher, mix one part pool water and 2 parts distilled water together. Test as normal and then multiply the result by 3. Etc. This dilution method is not as accurate as a better testkit will do, but it will do in a pinch until you get a better kit and will help you figure out how much bleach to add when you test to get back up to shock level.

[aylad]

And just to make sure that it doesn't get missed in the ton of information you're trying to process right now, don't worry about the washing soda--with the numbers you have, you don't need it.

Stay the course that Watermom, Carl, and Polyvue laid out for you---now that your pH is up into the 7.? range, concentrate on the chlorine and clear up the green. Once you do that, you'll find that your numbers are actually pretty good and it will just be a matter of maintenance from there. Keep the filter running, keep brushing daily, backwash as needed when your pressure starts to rise on your filter, keep the chlorine up, and it'll get there!!

Janet

[hamiltonmike]

i appreciate all of this info more than you can imagine. much more informative than the pool people.

i have been testing 3 times a day and keeping my ph at 7.2 or a bit above.


the distilled water is a good little tip as i have been scratching my head about my meter only reading up to 4ppm. i have been making sure that it is at least 4 or a bit more yellow. i will try the distilled water trick and see hoe that goes.


my alkalinity is staying right around 80-90ppm


today for the first time since i took the cover off i can see the bottom no problem. it is still a bit cloudy but definitly strides in the right direction!!!!(thanks to all of you :) )


i am thinking that the brushing the bottom is maybe why the pool stayed so cloudy for days?? i did not brush the pool and stir up the dirt yesterday and today it is much better!

should i vacuum the bottom now that i can see it, or should i wait til the pool is not cloudy anymore??



i am look at the 2006 test kits. i didn't realize there were 2 different models, hence the price difference from site to site. i will stop in at a few shops after work tomorrow and if they do not have it i will just order one and do the distilled water trick.



thanks again everyone

[polyvue]

today for the first time since i took the cover off i can see the bottom no problem. it is still a bit cloudy but definitly strides in the right direction!!!!(thanks to all of you :) )


i am thinking that the brushing the bottom is maybe why the pool stayed so cloudy for days?? i did not brush the pool and stir up the dirt yesterday and today it is much better!

should i vacuum the bottom now that i can see it, or should i wait til the pool is not cloudy anymore??

i am look at the 2006 test kits. i didn't realize there were 2 different models, hence the price difference from site to site. i will stop in at a few shops after work tomorrow and if they do not have it i will just order one and do the distilled water trick.
The algae, even when dead and dying, has to go somewhere. If you can, vacuum to waste -- that is, not back into your filter. If the filter pressure (PSI) rises substantially (8-10 psi over baseline) clean or backwash. It's desirable to continue brushing the pool surfaces to dislodge any nascent algae.

BTW - If this advice conflicts in any way with that given you by this forum's long-time posters or moderators, feel free to disregard. They have oodles of experience with these matters and can see you through this.

For some reason, none of the pool stores I'm familiar with carry high-end residential test kits. Leslie's sells a rebranded version of the Taylor K-2006 on-line but doesn't stock it in their stores. Your best bet to obtain a K-2006 is on-line. If you actually find a quality FAS/DPD test kit in a store, please post back and let us know -- it would be nice to know which stores are the exceptions.

[CarlD]

Because brushing makes your pool cloudy has led you to think brushing's a bad thing!

NOT SO! Any algae still alive is knocked loose by brushing and the dead algae is moved around so it is more easily filtered out. I don't know of ANY time when brushing is bad for your pool. Be sure to watch your filter pressure and backwash when it goes up.

[hamiltonmike]

well the pool is still very cloudy but i can still see the debris on the bottom.

i have been testing constantly and just now i got

chloring 9 ppm

ph 7.4

alk 80

it is definately getting better but definately not like some of the 4 and 5 day tarp off-swimming threads i have come across


i have been debating calling someone in to have a look but i have already done most of the opening stuff. so would it be worth it to hire someone to come have a look? id prefer not to if he is going to throw some chlorine in and leave shich is what i am picturing is going to happen lol

the pool shop people told me that once the green clears out(which for the most part is) and the pool goes cloudy that i can add a product called clear blue to the skimmer, and that will clear it up.

i didnt buy it but i thought i would ask here first


thanks
mike

[AnnaK]

No Mike, don't call anyone. You already know all you need to know about how to clean up your pool. Keep adding chlorine, keep brushing, keep the filter running.

The pool didn't turn green in a day and it'll take longer then a day to clean it up. Do the work, be patient. "Clear Blue' is probably a flocculant. Sure, you can buy it. It might help, it might not. Filtering will clear your pool eventually. It does take time.

[Watermom]

Can you net any of the debris off the bottom? The more you can get out of there, the faster it will clear. You are doing the right things. You just need what we refer to around here as POP --- pool owner patience. It has only been a few days. You'll get there. How high are you taking the chlorine when you shock? How many times a day are you testing and adding more bleach? How much chlorine are you losing overnight?

[hamiltonmike]

i have been out there all weekend brusing and netting as mush as possible! there is still the odd leaf here and there. for the most part it is particulate debris which the net wont get so i will have to vacuum it up.

a buddy of mine had a few pieces from various test kits, so he gave me the vile part, and the chlorine reads up to 10.

i was testing 3 times daily during the weekend .

since the tester reads up to 10 , that is what i have been shooting for , for consistancy reasons( i realize you said 12ppm)

this morning the chlorine was 4-5, so i am losing roughly 5-6 ppm?

i have been adding chlorine at about 9 am about an hour before the sun hits it, and roughly 9 pm once the sun is gone.


tomorrow i will be back to work so that will change a bit.



i spent a good 40 days (embarrassing i know) last season trying to get this up and running and it was a sad day when i had to put the cover on it, and i still couldnt see the bottom

but my POP has not run out just yet, as long as we are making progress :D

[Watermom]

Try and take your chlorine a little higher. And, although I know it may be inconvenient, you really gotta at least test and hit it with bleach no less than twice a day or you're never gonna get this pool clear. You always lose some of your chlorine to UV rays during the day. So, chlorine loss at night is a tell-tale sign that you are still killing algae.

As a side note to anybody reading this thread: Even when you are not fighting an algae bloom, this is why we recommend adding bleach at night instead of during the day just for routine maintenance, so all the chlorine can go towards sanitation of the pool and is not lost to UV.

The good news, Mike, is that you are not going to spend 40 days clearing this pool this year. You'll see. A few more days and it is going to sparkle!

[hamiltonmike]

well that is good news!! :D

i am, and will continue to shock it twice a day and even 3 times when i am around to do it.

the alkalinity is staying consitant at 80 for the most part and the ph is at 7.2 or a little bit above.


i have another question

the pool is more cloudy than green now. is the cloudiness due have something to do with the algea, or is more to do with the chemical balances changing??



thanks again :)

ps. since i joined this forum 2 people have suggested adding algeacide, but luckily i have read a few horror stories here and knew better!
i was also told it was to be shocked once a week along with the algeacide.
(im not questioning the advice given on this forum, just passing on what ive been told)

[chem geek]

The cloudiness is most likely dead algae. See the following thread (sorry about no link, but it looks like the ability to add links has been taken away):

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=1180

where you can see that the pool goes from green to cloudy fairly quickly, but then takes longer to clear. Shock levels of chlorine, regular brushing, and constant filtration are key. Removing large debris is also important, but it sounds like you've mostly done that. If in the event that you get to a point where you are stuck and there is no visible improvement and there is no chlorine loss (<= 0.5 ppm FC drop) overnight, then you could consider using a clarifier or flocculant, but you aren't there yet and usually this is not necessary.

[hamiltonmike]

wow, that is quite the tranformation!! i wake up every morning and walk out to the pool with hopes of a crystal clear pool lol i'll settle for cloudy because just seeing the bottom is a step forward for a noob like me.

i have been doing alot of reading lately and now i see that last years attempt consisted of shocking twice a week as per the "pros"
i wish i would of taken pictures last year, it was pretty bad, and there were some crazy bugs ......

i can;t beleive i didn;t think of finding a pool forum sooner, as i am a member of numerous reptile and fishing forums, and the best place for info!!!

[AnnaK]

Keep doing what you're doing. Your last post was fun to read. We love the beginnings of visible success!

[CarlD]

Now if you are having troubles getting it clear now that it's very blue, just cloudy, here are a couple of things you can tryl--it's spring so you may have pollen, too.

1) "Skimmer Socks". There are several brands of products similar to the one called this, but it doesn't matter. You put this thing in your skimmer basket with the elastic around the edge and you won't BELIEVE how much junk it pulls out! I rinse 'em out and one usually lasts me about a month, but they are pretty cheap--4- 6 in a pack and less than $10

2) DE powder in your sand filter. Sounds crazy but many members and Poconos and I do it all the time. I think Watermom does too. aylad doesn't because she uses Zeosand. Buy the smallest box of DE you can--10lbs or less. Just after you backwash, add 1/4 to 1/3 cup through your skimmer (take out the skimmer sock first!). Wait 10-20 minutes and see if your pump pressure increases--you want it to rise around 1 lb. Much more and your flow will decrease. If you put in too much, just back wash. The DE will significantly improve a sand filter's filtering and it's really cheap! My last box cost $8 and I've been using it since last season. The box before lasted about 3 seasons, too.

3) Add some Polyquat algaecide--the ONLY one we recommend. It's better for prevention than curing algae. You'll recognize it no matter what the pool store calls it because it will be the ONLY ingredient and say "Poly....<something-something> 60%. Sometimes it's called Black Algaecide, sometimes Mustard Algaecide, I never know! I go by the ingredient. What's great about Polyquat is it doubles as ANOTHER chemical (so you don't have to buy that, too) called a "flocculent". Floc helps cloudy suspensions clump so you can vacuum them and so the filter catches them. I avoid 30% and never pay more than $20/quart.

These are easy and simple and they usually work!

[Watermom]

Good call, Carl, on suggesting he try some DE. I forgot about suggesting that and yes, you're right. I use it in my sand filter, too!

[hamiltonmike]

well the water is not blue yet but i can see the bottom so it is somewhat clear. im not sure if the water itself still has a green tinge to it or if it is just that the sidewalls of the liner are stained and dirty.


i have noticed that since i added some borax to the skimmer that the psi now runs at roughly 12 opposed to 10 like before. im not sure if this has anything to do with it though.

what exactly does DE stand for?(Diatomaceous Earth ?) and where can it be purchased?

i had a few of these "socks" in my hand last time i was at the pool store but wasnt sure if it was a gimmick or not so did not purchase them. but i will pick them up in the next few days. they were 4 for 7.99 so they are rather cheap.



another ?

is there a safe product for cleaning the liner??

it is rather bleached and doesnt hide any dirt at all so i would like to give it a wash if possible. maybe a power washer?


thanks
mike

[CarlD]

DE is Diatomaceous Earth and every pool store and many discount houses sell it because one of the two most popular filter types, the DE filters, use it. But the stores sell it in various amounts and the smallest (10lbs) should last you several seasons. It's also good for getting rid of things like ants.

No, the skimmer socks work AMAZINGLY well, particularly in the spring because the pollen gets caught in them and you don't need to backwash so often.

[Watermom]

Glad it seems to be improving. A raise to 12 psi is fine. You are probably just catching stuff in the filter which is good!

As far as a cleaner --- you want to be very careful about putting any type of cleaners in your pool. It can mess up your chemistry and also give you a giant bubble bath if you aren't careful! I sometimes will use a little baking soda on a rag when I need to clean the vinyl. As long as you don't you use boxes worth to clean with, the baking soda isn't going to mess up the chemistry any.

[hamiltonmike]

well liner is really dirty and i will definately have to figure a way to clean it(if it is not permanantly stained now)at some point soon

i decided to take a sample to pioneer pools which has a computerized system and this is what i got

free chlorine 8.5ppm
total chlorine 8.8ppm
combined chlorine 0.3ppm
ph 7.6
hardness 200ppm
alkalinity 60ppm
cyanuric acid 25ppm

i was told to use 6kg alkajuster(2kgs added to water, then dispersed around the pool, 3 times, 30 mins apart)

is there a household rememdy to bring up the alkalinity?

she also tried selling me some liquid flocculant(sp?) like clear blue/crystal clear but i declined.


i asked about the DE and like usual they look at me like i have 3 heads when i tell them its to add to my sand filter. they only sold 20kg bags, so i will try and check out the pool shop.

i bought and added a skimmer sock


and the best news of all!!!!!!!! the pool is getting clearer and clearer by the day :D :D :D

still a bit cloudy but definately a HUGE improvement!

if i didnt know how high the chlorine level was i would of probably jumped in quickly last night :)

oh and the pump is now running consistantly at 12 no matter what. if i backwash it goes back to 12.

thanks
mike

[Watermom]

is there a household remedy to bring up the alkalinity?
Yes. You can use baking soda to raise alk. Add a little at a time slowly to the skimmer while the pump is running. After a few hours, retest and redose until you get it where you want it; somewhere between 80-120 is ok. Sneak up on the number instead of dumping in too much at once and overshooting your target. You're already at 60, so go slow with additions.

and the best news of all!!!!!!!! the pool is getting clearer and clearer by the day :D :D :D
See? We told you this would work!

Good job, Mike. Keep up the diligence and you're soon gonna be swimming in that clear pool!

[CarlD]

Yup. "Alkalinity Adjuster" is nothing but a fancy expensive package for BAKING SODA! That's right, Sodium Bicarbonate. I've seen it as high as $4/lb from %!0&@rd--and $3.50/12 lbs at Costco.

That's why we call it the B-B-B method--buy your chemicals at the grocery store---Bleach, Borax and Baking Soda. And if you want pHUp!, you buy Arm&Hammer Washing Soda--usually next to the Borax!

Ben even has an article on it on the sister site, PoolSolutions.com!

[hamiltonmike]

well i knew it wouldn't hurt to buy all three while i was at the grocery store. considering they told me to put 6kg in, does that mean i am to put 6kg of baking soda in?? i added 1 kg right after making my post today, then brushed and vacuumed the entire pool again. i just retested and the alk seems to of risen to 100 from 60 , does this sound about right? after testing i then added about 2 litres of bleach to boost it up again.am i ever glad i bought those skimmer socks! almost instantly the thing turnes black with particulate dirt :)


i looked for WASHING soda at walmart and sobeys and couldn't find it but i have quite a bit of store bought PH^ left from last season but i thought the borax was used to bring the ph^ while not affecting the alkalinity :|



hmmm better go and reat the thread a few more times

[Watermom]

Your alk is good right where it is at 100. No more baking soda needed. Also, no PH Up or washing soda. Both of those will raise your ph AND your alk. You don't want your alk any higher. And, you're right about the Borax. It is used when you need to raise the PH but don't want to increase the alk.

It is a lot of information to learn at the beginning -- a pretty steep learning curve. You'll get it. You're doing great on clearing this pool!

[CarlD]

For those who didn't know this:

Borax also works GREAT in the laundry!

:D;)

[hamiltonmike]

steep learning curve is right! but im getting it slowly but surely.

i never was a great science student so its all new to me. i read somewhere that muriatic acid is used for something pool related, but i use it all the time to solder galvanized steel . it is nasty stuff and its amazing that you put it in the water you swim in.

and its funny you mention that carld because i caught my girlfriend in the garage filling a measuring cup to try out :P

[Watermom]

Muriatic acid is used to lower ph. Nasty stuff. You have to be really careful when you use it. (Be upwind so you won't get a bunch of fumes, eye protection is recommended, don't splash it on yourself or on your equipment, liner, etc.) Some pools never need it. My pool's ph is very stable and I never need to lower it. Every once in awhile I need a little Borax -- especially if we get a lot of rain (acid rain) but even then it isn't very often.

[CarlD]

Yeah, muriatic acid is nasty stuff, but the beauty of it is that it's Hydrochloric Acid, made up solely of Hydrogen and Chlorine, both of which are good for your pool water.

[hamiltonmike]

ill need to remember that in case i mess up at some point along the way. im sure it is only used in small amounts right? maybe a few cap fulls? or are we talkin cups?

well now that the pool is starting to come around i have a few questions.

at which point will stop shocking the pool to 10+ppm and bring it down to 1-3ppm?


i also decided to have a look at the solar blanket, and it is kinda rough. i didnt unroll it completely but i saw a few hole and tears and it seemed a little bit brittle. should i be looking into getting a new one?

i have also notices that the pump has a minor leak and i am assuming it is a seal. i have been looking at used pumps and am wondering if i should keep it at 3/4 hp, or maybe go up or down a notch?

any pump i should stay away from?

right now i have 3/4 jacuzzi pump and jacuzzi sand filter.

[Watermom]

Continue to hold the pool at shock levels until you can get through the night with losing no more than 1ppm of chlorine. And, then for good measure, i advise holding it at shock level for one more day after that. Then, when you are at that point, you can let it drift down.

Regarding pool blankets -- they definitely help minimize heat loss at night. I'd say replace it. They aren't really all that expensive.

I'm gonna let somebody else talk pumps with you. The only thing I will say, and this is not just to you, but also to anybody else following this thread --- when it comes to pump size, bigger is not always better. Pool stores want to make money and thus they are going to try and get you to buy the most expensive things they can including bigger pumps than you need. But, if you get a pump that is too big for your pool, it will just force things too fast through your filter and your filter won't be able to work as well. Plus, it just wastes electricity. I have a 24 ft. AG and I used to have a 3/4 hp pump, but when I replaced it a couple of years ago, I downsized to a 1/2 hp and it works great.

[hamiltonmike]

well i owe each and every one of you a VERY BIG THANK YOU!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!







i just got home and the pool is crystal clear!!!!! im thinking the skimmer socks helped alot!

the sidewall of the liner are really stained/dirty and it gives it a greenish look around the sides but other than that it looks GREAT!!

i just tested it

chlorine 5ppm

ph 7.6

alk 110


im wondering if it is safe to get in and scrub the sides down before i bump up the chlorine level again??

the water is still freezing(68ish) but i am dying to get in there and scrup it down !

what do you guys think??


on a side note i was talking to my neighbour yesterday who has nice inground pool and he didnt beleive me that i used household products ONLY! he also told me that the previous owner did not open the pool for a few years and the tarp was in the pool for an entire season ......GROSS!!

[Watermom]

YAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Go get in. You're gonna freeze :eek::eek::eek:, but the excitement of the first swim after dealing with this pool and winning are gonna keep you warm.. (At least for a few minutes ....:D)

Congrats and you're welcome!

[AnnaK]

Good work, Mike!

For brushing the sides of my pool I use a Wall Whale. This is a brush (nylon or steel, depending on your pool type) with a flapper of sorts attached to it. The water puts pressure on the flap when the brush is pushed and that action helps press the brush against the side of the pool. If you Google "Wall Whale" you'll find it easily enough. The Leslie's in my town has them in stock and I've seen them at Canadian Tire stores.

68°F will certainly be . . . uh . . . refreshing :eek: