Pump not holding prime

[AnnaK]

A new development over the past few days.

My pump runs at night and shuts off at 04:00. When I check the pool in the mornings the water level in the pump pot had been lower than normal. Normal with my system was a half-dollar sized air bubble in the center of the domed pot lid.

Last week I noticed two or three air bubbles, larger ones, and some considerable bubbling in the pot when I ran the pump. This is a 2-speed which I run on low except when vacuuming. This morning the water level in the pot is drained down to about 1/2. I've also noticed a small amount of water on the outside of the pot and on the pad it sits on.

So—there's probably a crack in the pot. There isn't any water around the lid, it's sealed tightly.

Are these pots replaceable or am I looking at having to buy a whole new pump?

[CarlD]

It depends on the brand. Sometimes you can replace the pump but keep the motor, sometimes the other way around.

If you can find the crack then you could try sealing it with epoxy. There's a special pool repair epoxy that actually dries underwater! As long as the repair doesn't hit the basket or impede any openings it could well last for years.

[AnnaK]

Is this available at the pool store? HD/Lowe's/ACE? Am I looking for a particular brand name or will it say 'pool repair' or 'water' on it? I'm not meaning to sound like a dummy, honest. I fix stuff with duct tape, zip ties, bungee cords, and, sometimes, a chewing gum-toothpaste combination to fill small holes. I've not worked with epoxy.

[CarlD]

Most pool stores stock it. Pool Repair Epoxy or something similar. Other stores like H-D MAY have it, but they should epoxy putty which is pretty similar. You cut off equal amounts and knead it together until it's an even color and then apply it. I've used epoxy putty to fix things (successfully) like a car's heater core. But pool epoxy putty is designed to be APPLIED under water, as opposed to being applied dry and then immersed after it's dry.

Most car parts stores stock epoxy putty. It is NOT Bondo.

[Watermom]

I'm not meaning to sound like a dummy, honest. I fix stuff with duct tape, zip ties, bungee cords, and, sometimes, a chewing gum-toothpaste combination to fill small holes.

Too funny! I love it! (sheesh -- isn't that the way everybody fixes stuff?? :p

[AnnaK]

But pool epoxy putty is designed to be APPLIED under water, as opposed to being applied dry and then immersed after it's dry.



O-KAY! That answers the question I had about how to get the remaining water out of the pot. I don't have to. Though I was already scrounging through the box in the garage for some rubber tubing I know is in there.

Thanks a bunch!

ETA: Duh! There's a little drain on the bottom of the pot. Never mind the rubber tubing syphon. Sheesh!

[CarlD]

O-KAY! That answers the question I had about how to get the remaining water out of the pot. I don't have to. Though I was already scrounging through the box in the garage for some rubber tubing I know is in there.

Thanks a bunch!

ETA: Duh! There's a little drain on the bottom of the pot. Never mind the rubber tubing syphon. Sheesh!

That's right! There's a little drain plug there!....

If it moves and it shouldn't, use duct tape.
If it doesn't move and it should, use WD-40.

For everything else a hammer and/or vise-grips!

[AnnaK]

I'll keep your fix-it advice in mind.

Found some marine epoxy and have drained the pot. I'm now off to do some gluing. If you don't hear from me by tomorrow, send help. It means I've glued myself to the pump pot.

Oh yes. That is something I would do.

[CarlD]

Nah. It's epoxy, not superglue. You'll be able to get away, just not able to get the glue glop off your your fingers.

[AnnaK]

I wore my trusty purple latex gloves and brought along a bottle of Goo Gone, just in case.

Haven't filled the pot back up yet, it's too $#@! cold out there for me to want to play in water. We'll see if it holds tomorrow. It won't hurt the pool to not have water circulating for 24 hours. Heck, another couple degrees and a person could skate on it.

[CarlD]

Let's all hope it work.

"Think it'll woik?" The Wife
"It'd take a miracle" Miracle Max.

[AnnaK]

Update:

This morning I put the plug back in after having wrapped it with Teflon tape and filled the pot by opening the valve to the skimmer. Closed the valve, put the lid on. I did not turn on the pump. The pot should now be a sealed system, right? If it drains down again I would be looking for a leak around the pot, wouldn't I?

I'll give it some hours.

[Poconos]

Maybe. On an AG with the pump and filter below the skimmer and return openings you can get backflow from the return, back through the filter, then to the pump so closing just the skimmer valve shouldn't really stop anything. I'd leave the valve(s) open and just look for a dribble.
Gonna go mow...rain approaching sooner than expected.
Al

[AnnaK]

I have the valve to the return closed as well.

Right now the cinder block pad the pump sits on is wet from the pot overflowing. I wouldn't be able to really tell a leak in the pot or its immediate fittings unless there is, as you say, a dribble. And what with the rain coming this plumbing leak detection event may have to be on hold for a few days.

What I do know is there's no evidence of water at any of the valves or connections to/from the pool nor any visible leaks in the pump fittings.

[CarlD]

If it runs and you get no extra air in the pump skimmer

[AnnaK]

Okay, this is where we're at now:

Around noon today I made sure the pot was full and then opened both valves, suction side and pressure side, but left the pump off. When I checked it around 16:00 the pot was half empty. There's no evidence of a water leak.

I filled it, sealed it, turned the pump on low. What I saw were many air bubbles, a lot of action in the pot, and a gurgling sound coming from the filter that I hadn't heard before.

There is plenty of water in the pool, halfway up the skimmer opening. I decided to backwash. Dropped the water hose in to add water. Removed the weir—it seems to impede water flow when the pump runs on high and that's the backwash setting.

Turned the pump on high. The pot filled itself to its total maximum with just the smallest air bubble under the top of the domed lid. I ran it through two backwash and rinse cycles, then set the pump back to low.

As of now, the pot is still full, the pump is on and there's no gurgling in the filter. I'm wondering whether the weir door gets stuck and doesn't let enough water into the skimmer? I left it off for now.

Such drama!

[polyvue]

Okay, this is where we're at now:

Around noon today I made sure the pot was full and then opened both valves, suction side and pressure side, but left the pump off. When I checked it around 16:00 the pot was half empty. There's no evidence of a water leak.

I filled it, sealed it, turned the pump on low. What I saw were many air bubbles, a lot of action in the pot, and a gurgling sound coming from the filter that I hadn't heard before.

There is plenty of water in the pool, halfway up the skimmer opening. I decided to backwash. Dropped the water hose in to add water. Removed the weir—it seems to impede water flow when the pump runs on high and that's the backwash setting.

Turned the pump on high. The pot filled itself to its total maximum with just the smallest air bubble under the top of the domed lid. I ran it through two backwash and rinse cycles, then set the pump back to low.

As of now, the pot is still full, the pump is on and there's no gurgling in the filter. I'm wondering whether the weir door gets stuck and doesn't let enough water into the skimmer? I left it off for now.

Such drama!
Anna, Could this just be a loose fitting or leaky valve? I can effect the same symptoms you describe (when the pump is off) just by opening the top mounted filter gauge a teensy weensy bit -- just enough so that there is no hissing whatsoever -- or opening the pump pot lid a 1/4 turn.

No noise, but over an hour or two gravity works on the water in my above grade filter and drains back through the system (into the pool, presumably) - a tiny leak in a hose or PVC pipe might serve to do the same thing.

[CarlD]

I find I sometimes have to shut down the skimmer a little. I have a ball-valve/quick connect just under my skimmer so I can shut it down just a little so it doesn't suck itself dry and pull in air. The weir is only a problem if it's the wrong one or is worn out or broken.

[Poconos]

Anna has an AG pool so the filter and pump are below water level I assume. Am I right on this Anna? Opening anything on the equipment will let water leak out.
Al

[AnnaK]

O yay! It held!

The pump timer shuts the system off at 0400. This morning around 0900 I checked the pot. It was full of water with only the merest little air bubble the size of a nickel touching the domed lid. No drain-down!

I cannot even begin to explain that. All I did was backwash/rinse and remove the weir. Yes, I did epoxy what might have been a crack in the pot but remember, I filled it after that and the pot drained again.

It's holding now—for now—and so I'm just going to pat myself on the back and tell myself 'you rock!'

Al, you're right, it's an above-ground with the equipment below the water level.

CarlD, I do have a ball valve on the suction pipe from the skimmer to the pot. I have to turn it and the valve to the return off whenever I open the pot or else, a flood!

Greg, it makes sense that there is an air leak somewhere. If I'm reasoning this out correctly, the pump shuts off and, in the absence of an air leak, there's a vacuum in the pot. If there's an air leak the air would push the water back (into the filter?) until a pressure equilibrium is reached, which results in a half-empty pot. When the pump is turned on the pot is half full of air and mo additional water can get in to fill it.

Or am I making this up? Sounds good, tho9ugh, doesn't it?

I will check all fittings to make sure they're tight, don't know what else to do. IF this problem comes back.

Thank you all very much for caring about this and for your input.

[CarlD]

My dad used to just put one of those expanding rubber plugs in it, but I use the ball-valve. If you shut it just slightly, you should keep it from sucking air.

[polyvue]

It's holding now—for now—and so I'm just going to pat myself on the back and tell myself 'you rock!'
Ah, heck. We all could have told you that already...:)

[AnnaK]

Yeah? Thanks! :)

The pump held pressure after running last night, the pot is still full, there's no air gurgling in the filter. Last evening I brushed some of the debris up to get it suspended in the water; mostly, what we have right now is pollen and tiny little flowers from the chokecherry trees. The pool floor was pretty clean this morning and the skimmer sock was lined with selfsame debris, a good sign that the pump is working as expected.

I did find a couple of water leaks around the pot. One is coming from the intake connection, the other seems to be related to the pot itself. It has ridges, best I can describe them, as part of its construction, and there's some water beading under one of them. I'm going to need a mirror to take a better look at that. Neither leak is a drip; both of them just sort of bead up when I wipe the water off.

Since things are holding for now I'm going to wait until the weekend to inspect this more closely. I've re-installed the weir. It's working fine, not stuck anywhere and moving freely.

Thanks for bearing with me on this.