Air Compressor Attachment/Adaptor & Questions

[jenmenke]

I am considering trying to close my IG 20x40 pool myself this year. I do all my own maintenance other than that, as I have been too chicken to try it.

I have searched and searched the forums to figure out how to use my air compressor to do this and am thoroughly confused.

Everyone talks about a "winterizing plug" with something akin to a "tire stem" coming out of it. Some have links to pool stores that sells them. I have not found any pool store selling them, other than the standard compression-type rubber winterizing plugs with the threaded screw and wing nuts on them.

I don't really want to start trying to figure out how to dismantle a bike tire to make my own. What are my options?

I'm totally on the fence about doing this, but thought if I could at least easily figure out the air compressor I'd go poke around and give it a try. I figured if I got cold feet (pun intended) I could always stop and call the pool guys (whose rates have doubled in the past 4 years, btw)

thanks in advance.
Jennie Menke

[waste]

The rubber plugs with the 'tire stem' shouldn't be hard to find. However, who needs them? :p

Down in Va. when we'd pressure test lines, we used an air compressor, you could rig up something like we did. Using a properly sized male adapter, ~ 1' of schedule 40 PVC pipe and a glue on cap, you can drill through the cap and use a tap to install a 'tank valve' (tire stem with threads on the bottom).

This would functionally replace the rubber plug with the tank valve through it and let you blow out the entire system from one skimmer (with the multiport on 'recirc'). It will cost more than the rubber plug (you need the M/A, pipe, cap and glue and primer as well as the tank valve and the tap) - but it's very simple to throw together and will last the life of your pool.

If you still can't find the blow through plug and need any info on building what I just told you about, just give a holler and I'll help you build one:)

[jenmenke]

See? My eyes started to glaze over on "using a properly sized male adaptor..."

I wish I could just go buy one somewhere. So, yes, I WOULD like help in making one. I would PAY you!!! Or, alternatively, you can spoon-feed me directions. Starting with what the "properly sized male adaptor" is attaching to. The compressor? The PVC? AAahhh!

I am vacillating on whether or not to do it myself. Temps are going to drop into the mid 20's early next week, so I might just call the pool co. cuz I'm feeling like a ninny.

[Poconos]

Take a look at my post #17 in this thread:

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=261

Al

[jenmenke]

Do you know if anyone has used the "ultra gizzmo?" It apparently has a blowthrough plug in the top of it. I can't find any good pictures of it, though, to see for sure if I am understanding it right.

I don't know how to post a link here. but this is where I saw it:

http://www.totalpoolwarehouse.com/ItemDetail.aspx?ItemNo=411GIZ16U
http://www.gizzmo.net/new/html/install.html

Seems like -- if I am understanding it right -- it would do what your home made device would. I think it is designed to blow out thru the skimmers without lowering your water level. I, however, have always lowered water below skimmers and will continue to do so.

Pool closers are set to come on 10/15 unless I can get it figured out before then. I'm still thinking about doing it.

[jenmenke]

Here is another picture I found of it:

http://wetheadmedia.com/the-pool-gizzmo/

[waste]

Sorry to have missed this part of the thread! The Ultra Gizzmo works very well for folks in your situation!

Jennie sent me the following PM :


jenmenke jenmenke is online now
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Join Date: Dec 1969
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Posts: 89
Default I'm gonna try to build your blow-out thing, but have a question
I need some clarification on your response to my question about the adaptor for the air compressor -- asap because I want to start this today. Temps have been down to 20 and pool people aren't scheduled for another week. I'm worried:

1) When you say "a properly sized male adaptor" you mean either 1" or 2" that screws into the bottom of the skimmer, depending on the size I have, right? (ours is 2")

2) A tank (or schraeder) valve that comes out thru the top of the glued-on cap connects to the air compressor with a tire inflator compressor accessory, right?

that's it for now. Hope you are around!

What you describe is right on with what I was saying:cool: The threads would either be 1.5" or 2" - get the right male adapter, pipe and cap for your line. Oncew you've glued the pipe to the MA and the cap, drill a hole in the cap and use a tap to allow you to screw in the tank valve. (I think the tank valves are 3/8" - BUT DOUBLE CHECK THAT!!! Make sure you use terflon tape on any threaded connections!

You'll also need some expansion protection in the skimmer! You can either cut up a foam 'noodle' and pack it into the skimmer body or ~1/2 fill an empty bleach bottle with sand or gravel and insert it upside down in the skimmer (the sand/ gravel keeps the bottle 'neutral buoyant' so that if ice forms, the bottle will collapse before the skimmer walls break)

There are some other fine points in closing a pool, but the most important for right now are evacuating and plugging the lines (adding antifreeze to all the lines you can is also a VERY good idea) and draining the water out of the pump/ filter equipment. If you will tell us what you've accomplished, we'll tell you what else needs be done:)

LUV & LUK!
Ted

Good luck with this, I'll check in in a couple of hours to see if you have any follow up questions

[jenmenke]

So glad you responded. OK, here is what I have accomplished so far. And I'm not AT ALL confident lines are blown clean

I was going to make your adaptor and the more I looked at your directions, I couldn't see what the difference between the function of IT and the gizzmos I use every year. The gizzmo has removable plug on the end that a winterizing plug fits into perfectly. So I put a schraeder valve thru the winterizing plug and hooked my 135 psi air compressor up to that thru gizzmo that was screwed into the skimmer.

The deep end return started blowing first. But it wasn't consistent air bubbles. What I mean is that it would blow big bubbles, stop for a few seconds and blow big bubbles again. I let it go for at least 15 minutes and it continued to do that with no change. So I figured that must be how it works. I worked my way around the 4 returns and then the polaris jet.

Next I did the other skimmer. It blew water, but not up into the air like it does when the pool people do it. When they do it, water blows up like a geyser. Mine just "bubbled" and again seemed to bubble out, then suck in, bubble out, suck in... It did NOT instill confidence at all...

Then I tried the main drain. I got lots of bubbles, then nothing. At no point after that first 15-20 seconds of bubbles did it appear that ANYTHING was coming out of the drain. No air, no water. No ripples in the dead calm pool water at all. Shouldn't there ALWAYS be bubbles or movement or SOMETHING?

I couldn't figure out how to get air going thru the fountains. I wonder if that is a totally closed system. We never used them this year, but I think they still need to be blown. They have their own pump, but that pump hasn't worked for at least a year...

Then I drained the filter (DE) by unscrewing the plug and the pressure gauge. I leave those off, right?

Then I drained the heater (2 plugs) and turned the propane off.

Then I drained the two pumps. (2 plugs each)

There is 5" of snow forecasted for tonight. So I'm really hoping I will be OK for the next day or two. But I've got to figure out if there is still water in the lines.

Biggest concern RIGHT NOW is the equipment, since water will no longer be circulating thru them: do the heater and filter and pumps just DRAIN or do they get BLOWN? All I did was drain and leave the plugs out.

Should I ever hear ANY "gurgling" in the lines once the lines are "blown"? My guess would be NO. And I did hear some gurgling. So I"m concerned...

I'm so sorry to be such a pain. Thanks for your time and help.

[Poconos]

Generally, drain plugs are at the lowest point so if you remove them all the water should drain out. At least enough so freezing will not be a problem. As for the bubbles, the pool people probably used an industrial version of the shop-vac which blows a large volume of low pressure air, compared to a compressor that provides higher pressure at low volume. Pipes burst when you have ice forming with no place to expand. Picture a length of horizontal pipe that droops in the middle. If there is standing water, enough to fill the inside diameter of the pipe even for a short distance, and the ends of the water freeze first, they form plugs and then the middle freezes. The water in the middle expands, has no place to go because of the ice plugs at the ends, and the pipe bursts. If there is just a little water left in the pipe so it can expand vertically then the pipe will be OK.
Hope this helps.
Al

[jenmenke]

Thanks Poconos. Bear with me here as I would like to ask a couple more questions.

1) As I was using the compressor (attached to gizzmo thru skimmer) and was working around the returns, air was blowing out thru each one as I capped them. Not constant air, but almost. I was sure to cap it as a surge of air was coming out. Can I be sure that the returns are good for a MN winter?

2) I read just about every single old post on blowing the lines. I know I can go suck out any remaining water in the deep end skimmer and use the antifreeze, so I'm not worried about that. Am I correct in my thinking?

3) I fiddled with the main drain valve quite a bit. I closed it after it bubbled, but since it wasn't bubbling at the exact minute I closed the valve, I was concerned. So reopened it and continued to try to get it to bubble again. It never did. I assume water "fell back" into the main drain and that it still needs to be blown out. Is this correct?

4) After I was all finished last night and reading all the old posts, I saw that Waste likes to drain the equipment before blowing the lines to avoid that water from recirculating thru the system. Does that happen even when the multiport is set to "recirculate?" If so, could that explain all the gurgling I heard when I should have been finished?

5) Is there a way to connect the air compressor somewhere other than the skimmer that would give me a better "surge" to blow the main drain? Or is the skimmer the best place? Maybe I should try the technique with the bike pump I read about last night? I've got a sprinkler guy coming today. Maybe I can talk HIM into connecting to my skimmer!

thanks. I can't promise I won't have more questions, but with 3" of snow now on the ground, a high of 35, lows in the mid 20's, and the pool people not coming till Friday, I hope I did the right thing. If I can somehow get comfortable that I've done a 100% good job, I will call the pool people and cancel. Please, please help me to do so!

Jennie

[Poconos]

Ted knows a lot more about various setups than I so he's the one to best comment on your specifics. Yes, probably best to drain the equipment before blowing as a general rule. I don't have a main drain and have never dealt with one but just remember that all you need to do is winterize above the frost line and I suspect in MN that's 4 feet or lower. Also remember that a larger mass like the filter tank, takes longer to freeze before smaller masses like the pipes so don't sweat the cold snaps with the big stuff. As for connecting the compressor somewhere else, that depends on if you can break into the system somewhere else. Probably nothing to be gained.
Al

[jenmenke]

OK, thanks. That does make me feel better. (Though it was 20 degrees AGAIN when I woke up this morning. Snow still on the ground...)

Ted? Where are you? Did you get frozen to your equipment pad? Should we send help?

In the meantime, I will be eagerly awaiting your replied.

Your friend and pool guru student,
Jennie

[jenmenke]

Tried the tire pump method mentioned a couple years ago for clearing the main drain. No go. Am fairly certain that even if I did initially clear it, water re-entered it when I opened the valve to try again.

I still don't know what the deal is with the fountains or how to blow them out.

Pool people were scheduled for tomorrow and I needed to cancel 24 hours in advance. So, I guess I'll just have to let them come and do it since I'm now inside that window and I can't get it figured out here. The bummer is that I can't even be here to watch them because I'll be out of town.

Maybe next year...

I would still like to see if you can help me answer my questions from a few days ago though. I will help in my understanding, hopefully, for next year.

[waste]

Sorry to have been off line last night :mad: !

I think you're best off having the pool dudes do a complete closing- If we'd had more time, I surely could have talked you through it.

Come about Thanksgiving, I get laid off for the winter - what say we talk about your pool and the piping over the winter? I'll have lots of time to devote to fully understanding your set up and then you'll be empowered to take care of the openings and closings yourself (saving you $$$):)

I hope your trip goes well and that you get home safely (it would have been optimal for you to be able to watch what and how they close the pool - but we can still let you know what they've done and how)

Write down your questions about what they did and how they managed it (ask them to leave some sort of report about what they did, since you won't be there, and let us know what was done for the closing ;) )

We are here for you all year!

[lyateem]

Did you ever find an adapter?

[tasso]

HI,

I live in Minnesota, near Forest Lake if you live nearby, and hopefully just closed my pool myself today.

I used an air compressor with an adapter that was included with the compressor I bought at Costco.

Just thread the adapter from the compressor hose to the drain valve on the filter pump basin and systematically blew out the returns.

If you want I would be happy to email you a photo of the compressor adapter that threaded just perfect into the filter pump drain opening.

Here is what I did today and maybe you all can tell me if I did it right, PLUS I have one question.

1. I cleaned the pool and checked the chemicals looks pretty good. Also, removed the return islets and put in duck plugs. It is fiberglass with an autocover, so I put in a foam block in the skimmer opening very neat product left water in pool half way up skimmer, to minimize the cover stretching downward
2. Turned off electricity to pump etc
3. All valves at pad turned to close.
4. Drained the filter pump, booster pump and filter housing and heater, reinstalled all plugs but the one to the filter bain.
5. Connected the compressor to the filter pump drain plug area and systematically blew out each return for about 1 minute of constant bubbles than cap the duck plug closed that valve. repeated this for all 3 returns and the booster line.
6. Than opened the skimmer top cover sucked out all the water that I could, than opened the skimmer valve at the pad and blew it out via the compressor connected to the filter drain opening until nothing but air, while blowing screwed in gizmo with teflon tap, added antifreeze to the skimmer.
7. Opened the main drain valve and blew it out for about 2 minutes of constant strong bubbles. BUT I have a concern. I have 2 main drain openings in my fiberglass pool, not on the bottom, but on the diving end wall near the bottom about 6 feet apart in a horizontal line, ONLY the one closest to the equipment pad bubble out air lots of it, but not the one 6 feet further away. I watched install so I know that the main line comes to the closest one first than about 2 feet from the main drain branches and goes to the other main drain, so I assume air is taking the path of least resistance and therefore coming out of the closest one only? Can I close the closest one somehow? Or is that 6 feet of water 9 feet underground not a worry?
8. Finally removed all the drain plugs
9. Plan to remove intellichlor SWG but what do I do with the open pipe openings? And how do I clean the SWG?
10. Filter cartridges removed rinsed and will soak clean and stay inside.

I hope this helps you Jennie, and if you live nearby I am happy to let you borrow my compressor and mystery attachment, love Costco.



Tasso