I hate being Color Blind - Strange Test Results

[tabjraxa]

Hi Everyone ...

I wish I could do these myself, but I have to go to a store to have them do them for me:

FAC = 0
TAC = .5
Water PH = 6.8
TA = 10 ... the test water turns grey/black (according to the pool guy) ... so he said it was 10 or less.
CYA = he also said this is very low ... but I thought this number was very high the last time I had them test. Not sure why it is reading so low now.
TDS = 2000

The Leslie's guy said, to lower the TDS first.

I have doubts.

I was on the pucks from Costco for a week or so due to a vacation, assumed I would have high CYA when I got back. So these numbers are confusing.

Pool is 6,000
Clear
I'm using Liquid Clorox 6% ... put in about 50 ozs last night
I also have added Borax ... but not seeing any change (one box)
I also have a fountain in the pool to aerate.

... What should I try to do first.

Thanks,
T.

[aylad]

I have some serious doubts about the accuracy of your Leslie's results. Is there another pool store that you could have test for you for comparison or, even better, a neighbor that could read your results from your own test kit?

Based on your numbers, if your pool is clear, the first thing I'd do is get some chlorine in there. I have a hard time believing you used trichlor for a week and still get "low" as a CYA result. Did he give you a number to go with the "low"? What was your CYA level before you went on vacation? You need a CYA number to know how much chlorine you need to keep in the pool, but for now at least get 3-5 ppm chlorine in there so you don't start having algae problems.

You also need to get that pH up--anything below 7.0 is acidic and can do damage to a liner pool. Keep aerating it for now, but you have a decision to make, and to make it you need an accurate TA number. Borax will raise the pH without a substantial rise in TA, but if your TA is really 10 (which I seriously doubt) then you need to use washing soda instead because it will raise both TA and pH. Either way, you need to get the pH up. Since you added a box of Borax without any change, that tells me your TA is actually quite high (in which case it's going to take a good bit of Borax to get it above 7.0) or that your pH is actually lower than the 6.8 that he read from the test, which is entirely possible--trichlor is very acidic and the lowest pH the test block reads is 6.8, so your pH may be still lower than that, which adds to the urgency to get it up higher.

Ignore the TDS and Leslie's advice about it--it's just the latest and greatest way to take money out of your pocket without doing any discernable improvement in your pool--TDS is only going to become important if you have an algae problem that has withstood all other forms of eradication.

Hope this helps!

Janet

[tabjraxa]

Janet,

I had much the same result with the TA test when I did it at home. But I didn't know what it meant.

Put in the 2 then the 5 drops and the water turned a strange color ... the Leslie's guy described it as gray/black ... thus the reason he said the TA was low.

Does this color mean anything to you?

Thanks,
T.

[tabjraxa]

Oh ... side question:

I have a Fiberglass Pool.

And, should I divert the water away from the Heater while this TA is goofy and the PH is low?

Thanks,
T.

[aylad]

The TA test should go from green to red or sometimes blue to yellow (have you used any non-chlorine shock?) so I'm not sure that gray means there is low TA. Did you add any of the reagent to see if there was a color change from the gray? I don't mean to insult you, but have you checked to make sure that you're adding the right reagents and how old are they? Have you tried checking the TA of your fill water to see if you get the same result?

I've never had it turn gray or black, but I'm still not convinced that just means the TA is low......

And yes, if you can divert the water away from the heater, I would until you get the pH and TA straightened out.........

Janet

[tabjraxa]

Janet,

Don't worry about my ego ... I've been color-blind all my life ... so I'm kinda used to these questions.

As for the testing ... I did the test last eve, with new reagents, and the wate turned the same color as they did in the store when he tested them today.

But, I'm going to go home and try again. I'll also try to test the tap water to see what happens there.

Check back in an hour or so ... I'll have new results. I didn't trust the results either, thus my reasons for asking here.

Thanks for your help ...
T.

[aylad]

I'll check back in a little bit--the kids are headed to the pool now......I'll be interested in seeing what your tap water does vs. your pool water....

Janet

[CarlD]

Hi Everyone ...

I wish I could do these myself, but I have to go to a store to have them do them for me:

FAC = 0
TAC = .5
Water PH = 6.8
TA = 10 ... the test water turns grey/black (according to the pool guy) ... so he said it was 10 or less.
CYA = he also said this is very low ... but I thought this number was very high the last time I had them test. Not sure why it is reading so low now.
TDS = 2000

The Leslie's guy said, to lower the TDS first.

I have doubts.

I was on the pucks from Costco for a week or so due to a vacation, assumed I would have high CYA when I got back. So these numbers are confusing.

Pool is 6,000
Clear
I'm using Liquid Clorox 6% ... put in about 50 ozs last night
I also have added Borax ... but not seeing any change (one box)
I also have a fountain in the pool to aerate.

... What should I try to do first.

Thanks,
T.

First? Forget about TDS. You have enough issues that ONLY when they are FULLY resolved should you even THINK about TDS.

Second: Let's assume the tests he ran are correct.
Adding Borax is the place to start. If your TA is low, you can add Washing Soda instead as it will raise TA.

Remember: your TA will be lower with pH at 6.8 than at pH of 7.6--your REAL TA may be the same as well.

But it's no big deal--you can add Baking Soda with the Borax to raise TA as well. BTW, at 6.8 pH you may well need as many as four boxes of Borax and/or Washing Soda.

Third: You FC level is 'WAY too low, and you have a CC level showing up. So shock it up and keep it shocked up.

Fourth: Avoid the pucks for now--they lower pH and you are dangerously low.

Fifth: You can, if you want, add stabilizer directly to get it where it needs to be. You should be able the run the CYA/Stabilizer test yourself because it doesn't require color perception--it's how cloudy the sample is.

Sixth: I don't know how severe you color blindness is--do you have reduced color perception, total inability to distinguish red from green, or complete monochrome vision?
For example, when using the FAS-DPD Chlorine test, can you see the water is pinkish red to start and can differentiate when it goes clear? If so, you can run that test.

If you can distinguish between red and green you can run the T/A test and the calcium drop tests as well.

I doubt you can run the OTO test for total chlorine, or the regular DPD test, or the pH test as they all require determining incremental changes in color--but the other tests may be possible for you to run. Still, if you can run the drop tests that the PoolForum kit, or the TroubleFree Kit has, then your only problem would be pH.

It just depends on how much perception you actually have.

[tabjraxa]

Okay, here are the latest tests ... from another store ... carefully done ...

Remember I have:

6,000, fiberglass pool
There is a floating fountain running in the middle of the pool at this point

Test Results:

FAC = 0
TAC = .5
PH = 6.6
TA = 10
CH = 300
CYA = 100
TDS = 1700

The Pool Calculator Website says:

With TA of 10 ... add 22oz of Borax
And, 127 oz of Baking Soda ... which is almost 8 lbs ...
And, 50 oz of Clorox 6%

Does this look right?

Thanks,
T

PS: Did check my Tap water ... it was about 80-100 on the TA (remember, I only see Red when it is clearly that color)

[tabjraxa]

Update:

I added 3 lbs of Baking Soda; 1 box of Borax ... just to start ...

If the Pool Calculator is correct, I need a lot more Baking Soda ... but, I thought I would test this after it has had time to do its thing.

I assume that tomorrow morning would be the next time a good test would be possible?

T.

[aylad]

Yes, I would definitely wait until the morning to retest, and adding the baking soda over a period of time. Dumping it in all at once is going to cloud your water. Did your pH move with the last box of Borax? If not, you could use washing soda instead of the borax/baking soda combo since it will raise both pH and TA.

Also, go ahead and add the chlorine--except I'm not sure how you got the 50 oz. With a CYA of 100, you need to have a minimum of 8 ppm of chlorine in order to keep the water clear, and to do that with 6% bleach you need more like 102 oz. That's why we needed the CYA number (and by the way, 100 is a LOT more realistic after using the trichlor, but it is much too high--before you do a lot more chemical addition, I would strongly advise you to drain about 1/2 your water and refill in order to bring it down. Refilling it with tap water should help some with your TA and pH issues, as well.).

Janet

[tabjraxa]

Hi Janet,

Well, you were correct ... CLOUDY WATER ...

I guess 3 lbs of Baking Soda at the same time was a bit much.

Wonder how long till it clears up?

I'll see what it looks like in the morning.

... keep you posted ...

g'nite.
T.

[CarlD]

Wow! With a CYA of 100 and a pH of 6.6 you are DONE using tabs for this season.

You are wise to add LESS of baking soda than you think you need--you can always add more. Once your T/A hits 80, stop add the baking soda.

Dumping half your water and refilling isn't so bad with a 6,000 gallon pool--that's only 3,000 gallons, about the size of 15' donut pool. Your pH will go up and your CYA will be cut in half--50ppm is a fine number to work with.

You need to get a proper FAS-DPD drop kit so you can measure yourself. There are 2 I know of (but I think Poconos knows a 3rd).
1) The TaylorTechnologies.com K-2006 or K-2006C kit (the latter has larger supplies of the reagents).
2) Lesliespool.com (the on-line site of the pool store chain) has their Chlorine FAS-DPD Service Test Kit, which is basically their re-branded version of the Taylor K-2006

Other than the pH test, you should be able to run the others--and, for the T/A test you can have someone tell you when it goes from green to red if you can't see it.

[tabjraxa]

Hi Carl,

Thanks for your comments.

Here's this morning's data:

Pool, not as cloudy as last night, but still can't see bottom.

PH was about 7.2
Chlorine ... was reading at least 5
TA was reading between 40 and 50 ... it turned clearly red(ish) at 5 drops.

So, things seem to be coming back to normal.

What do you suggest, to take it the rest of the way?

I appreciate all your help.
T.

[aylad]

I still highly recommend draining and refilling about 1/2 your water before you do anything else. However, if you don't want to do that, then make SURE your chlorine stays above 8 ppm. I agree with CarlD that you're done using the pucks for this year--the low pH and high CYA are direct results of trichlor, and while you can use Borax to compensate for the low pH, you are quickly reaching a point where the high CYA levels can't be compensated for effeciently.

If you don't want to drain and are willing to keep your chlorine in the 8-10 range (I suggest using bleach to do that) then give your pool another day or so to clear up, then add small amounts of baking soda until you get your TA to around 80 to 90, then stop. As long as you compensate for the high CYA by keeping your chlorine higher, and don't let your CYA rise any more, you should be good to go for the rest of the summer! :cool:

Janet

[CarlD]

Yup. Janet has answered for me.

Thanks! :)