Liner pulling out of track

[shadowman]

Is there a trick to refastening an IG liner when it pulls out of the track? I have two spots about six inches long and I am worried about water getting behind the liner and rusting the steel walls. Thanks for any advice.

http://i516.photobucket.com/albums/u326/shadowman3320/LINER.jpg

[waste]

As a matter of fact there are a few tricks - they can be found here :cool:

That piic looks like a ~tougher one to do (also looks like something is in the track on the right side of the pic):( Go slow with heating the liner you do not want to damage the liner by over heating it!!! or end up putting a finger through the liner!! What may end up helping you most in following the instructions in the post I linked is lowering the water a few more inches, the more liner you have to get the stretch out of means less tension on any given part of the liner:)

Try the hot water and see how things go, if it still won't go back after following all the tips and tricks I've given, let me know and we can go 'off board' for a discussion of some other ways to get it back in ( I won't just post them on board, because of possible damage to the liner - I don't want someone who just gives my advice a quick read and doesn't follow the instructions to blame ME if the liner gets wrecked:mad: )

Good luck with this - I hope you can 'talk' the liner back into the track! I'll be gone Wed - Tues on vacation, so if you don't hear from me during that period - I'm not ignoring you, I just can't log on :p

[shadowman]

Thanks Waste! Sorry I was too lazy to search for the previous posts. I have tried to work it back in while I'm in the pool since both areas are in the shallow end. I will try to decode your description of how to hold my hands :rolleyes: but I think I hurt myself just reading it. :D 82 and cloudy today but I'll try hot water. I'll let you know how it turns out.

[Vinyl_Guy]

Edited: Didn't see your second post when I wrote this below, lemme know if you need anything now.


Correct me if I'm wrong, but that picture appears as if the liner is bulging as well as "dipping, and of course out of the track. Is it? If so, there's more liner there then the picture suggests, which is good.

A couple of things right off the bat. Read that tuturial by waste, it's good.

What ever you do..........

Don't use a heatgun or even a hair dryer unless absolutely necessary . Hot water can do nearly the same thing and it's much more safe. Heat guns and hair dryers are too uncontrollable, they can melt the liner so fast it's like celluloid film. There one second, gone the next.

Don't use any mechanical device no matter how tempting. Pliers, channel locks, or vicegrips for example. Use only your hands.

Clean out the extrusion (slot/track). Use some compressed air, or a good china bristle brush works nicely too. A tiny grain of just about anything can cause the liner to "pop" out. That may have been the case and it may still be there. Vacuuming will do it to, and not push debris further done the "line" so to speak.

The rest is just conditions and technique. Folding the "bead" over on itself (to the inside) is key. It's hard to describe, but Waste does a good job of it on that sticky.

Let us know how it goes........

[shadowman]

Thanks for the additional input Vinyl Guy. No, there is no bulge there, it's just the distortion of the tile pattern that makes it look that way.

I just made my first hot water attempt with no success. I probably got it to come up about a half inch in the very center. :( The liner is 9 years old but still feels very pliable. I will try again when my fingers recover. I'll keep you posted.

[Vinyl_Guy]

Thanks Waste! Sorry I was too lazy to search for the previous posts. I have tried to work it back in while I'm in the pool since both areas are in the shallow end. I will try to decode your description of how to hold my hands :rolleyes: but I think I hurt myself just reading it. :D 82 and cloudy today but I'll try hot water. I'll let you know how it turns out.

Your going to have to get on the deck and work on it lying down. Use your forearms as the fulcrum. Keep your hands and the liner as dry as possible, it's like a greased pig when it's wet.

Fold the bead to the wall side over on itself. Pull up on this part of the liner above the "slot". As you lessen the pull on the bead to let the liner now drop "down" towards the "slot", the bead will begin to unfold at a 90degree angle from the vertical liner wall section, thus sliding into the slot.

I'm sure that sounds weird, but as waste and I have said it's sort of hard to describe.



Thanks for the additional input Vinyl Guy. No, there is no bulge there, it's just the distortion of the tile pattern that makes it look that way.

I just made my first hot water attempt with no success. I probably got it to come up about a half inch in the very center. :( The liner is 9 years old but still feels very pliable. I will try again when my fingers recover. I'll keep you posted.

Lowering the water may be the next step.

[Vinyl_Guy]

I'm sure that ladder isn't helping things any, you may have to take it out (hopefully an option), to get in there and work.

[Vinyl_Guy]

Here's a little bit of anatomy. Sorry it's not to scale or exact, but it is from memory. ;)

Left is a cross section of what is going on, far right is a more detailed image of how the liner holds in the "track". Assuming you have the coping I think you have (CP-2 or very similar).

The lone image in blue is how you should be trying to fold the liner in on itself, as you pull on it.

A proper build should hang the coping out over the edge of the pool wall slightly (less then a 1/2 inch more then an 1/8th, depending on foam thickness). This is to make room for a wall foam, and if no foam is installed, at least to give the liner some room so that it doesn't more easily lift out of the "track". If the very front of the "track" portion of the coping is flush with the wall, it's going to be a lot harder, if it's even slightly back from the front top corner or edge of the wall, it might be a nightmare.

http://home.comcast.net/~disfigured/copingcross.jpg

[shadowman]

Thanks for the additional detail VG. I understand how it hooks into the coping and the need to fold it back on itself. I just can't seem to get a good enough grip on it with just my thumbs and index fingers. I think you are both right about lowering the water level. I wish I would have worked on it when my PVC joint failed (earlier thread). I guess I was too concerned about getting the filter back up and running. You guys live on the wrong coast. I could use one of you for a neighbor :D

I gave up for today and went for a swim. I'll get back to this next weekend.

[aylad]

My husband and I have better luck standing in the pool and pushing up than lying on the deck and pulling...and sometimes it takes two people, one to "grab" the liner with the knife (I use a butter knife) and push upward with the other hand to hold it up there, and the other one to use a spoon to push the liner back into the bead. It takes a little practice, but it doesn't take long to develop a routine.

Janet

[Vinyl_Guy]

Thanks for the additional detail VG. I understand how it hooks into the coping and the need to fold it back on itself. I just can't seem to get a good enough grip on it with just my thumbs and index fingers. I think you are both right about lowering the water level. I wish I would have worked on it when my PVC joint failed (earlier thread). I guess I was too concerned about getting the filter back up and running. You guys live on the wrong coast. I could use one of you for a neighbor :D

I gave up for today and went for a swim. I'll get back to this next weekend.

I got time on my hands can you tell?

With that type of short but fairly dipping "outage". Lowering the pool will help. It does for all types of these situations.

Your going to have to "feed" the liner in from either the far left or right. I don't see you being able to lift it up in the middle for example then work you way towards the two sides.

It's not easy, many a day I spent trying to stop my fingers and thumbs from cramping up into the positions I used to pull liners up. I loosened a bottom tooth one time when I let go of one unexpectedly. Gave my self a quick knuckler to the bottom lip.

I had a fairly well off customer hook a garden hose up to his garage hotwater heater (used to wash his cars). His liner had pulled out in multiple places for long stretches due to some unseasonable floods. The water can rise up the wall panels and lift the liner right out. I spent half a day pulling his liner up while lying on the deck soaked in hot tap water. My nipples were worn red and chaffed. Ewwwwwwwww. But we saved it for the remainder of the season and through the next.

When all is said and done shadow. This spot in your coping could a "trouble spot". Something about the lip, coping or liner that causes it to fall out a lot. A small bend in the coping, an imperfection in the liner bead, anything can cause it. Even age as the chemicals wear down small places in each. So what you might want to do is get some "LinerLock" and install it in this one location to ensure it doesn't fall out again, only worse the next time.

LinerLock is a rubbery plastic formed into a "wedge" that can be cut into any length needed.

[shadowman]

Well, I didn't get back to it last weekend. September weather arrived in mid August this year and it doesn't look like it's leaving any time soon. The temps are not going to be out of the mid-70's for the next week. We had enough rain that I may have to pump some water to waste. I may have to seal up the two dropped spots in the liner with tape to keep the rain out for the winter. :mad: I am getting closer and closer to bulldozing this thing. Eight week pool seasons, if that, aren't worth it!

If I sound bitter, I think I am. Unfortunately, it was my idea to buy a house with a pool in western Oregon! :o

[Vinyl_Guy]

Well, I didn't get back to it last weekend. September weather arrived in mid August this year and it doesn't look like it's leaving any time soon. The temps are not going to be out of the mid-70's for the next week. We had enough rain that I may have to pump some water to waste. I may have to seal up the two dropped spots in the liner with tape to keep the rain out for the winter. :mad: I am getting closer and closer to bulldozing this thing. Eight week pool seasons, if that, aren't worth it!

If I sound bitter, I think I am. Unfortunately, it was my idea to buy a house with a pool in western Oregon! :o

If your going to leave it that way over the winter get two small pieces of that LinerLock and put them in, on each side of the pull. This will keep it from getting any worse. And it probably will over the winter with the extremes in temperature change day after day.

As long as it doesn't get any worse, I've seen pulls that size last for years on older liners when the effort of the fix, wasn't worth its benefits.

I hear ya about filling it in. I've filled a few in over the years too. To do it properly isn't cheap. Tamping every 18" over 8 plus feet is labor intensive. If you don't in a few years you have pool shaped depression in your lawn.

[shadowman]

If your going to leave it that way over the winter get two small pieces of that LinerLock and put them in, on each side of the pull. This will keep it from getting any worse. And it probably will over the winter with the extremes in temperature change day after day.

I hear ya about filling it in. I've filled a few in over the years too. To do it properly isn't cheap. Tamping every 18" over 8 plus feet is labor intensive. If you don't in a few years you have pool shaped depression in your lawn.

Actually, the pull pictured in my original post has already been through 2 winters with no appreciable difference. I will do as you suggest though since I have no idea what to expect from this winter. Our winters have been so mild lately that I haven't even winterized. I just pump it down a little and wait for the rain to fill it up.

As far as filling it in goes, I think we'll just move in a few years and let someone else have all the fun :rolleyes: