No Chlorine. . . If not Algae, then What?

[Pamsel]

We filled our pool with water from the tap this week, due to having a new vinyl liner put in. We have a very high iron content in our water so we used water that runs through a whole house filter. I think we overwhelmed the filter - it couldn't keep up with that volume of water running continuously. So, the water was looking green by time the pool was 1/4 full and quite green but clear when full. We put in a gallon of sequestering agent and expected to vacuum (to waste) the drop-out off the bottom of the pool. However, the next morning when I vacuumed, there was nothing coming off the bottom of the pool and the water was still clear and green. By the next day the water had turned completely cloudy green. The TA is very high and we are working on bringing that down...have two makeshift fountains going at the return jets. I assumed the high TA was the reason for the cloudiness. Last night I shocked the pool and this morning I have no chlorine reading. So, now I'm wondering what's going on...we can't have an algae growth, since we just filled the pool, can we? So then, where's the chlorine going? What am I missing here? My numbers this morning are:

CL - 0
PH - 7.4
TA - 460
CYA - 35

Last evening, after aerating for a few hours, there was a light, white "scum" collecting on the top of the pool. We've had something similar to that in past years when we had a large amount of dead algae floating on the top of the pool before it got filtered out. Last night, this looked like collected air bubbles from the aeration, but now I'm wondering if it's not that??

Thanks for any help!

[aylad]

First of all, when you add the metal sequestrant, it does not cause the metals to drop out of the water where you can vacuum them up. The purpose of the sequestrant is to keep the metals suspended in the water to keep them from staining your pool. Is it possible that you didn't add enough for your size pool? Have you tried adding a little more to see if the green starts to change?

Second, in two days in this heat, it is entirely possible for algae to start growing. If so, this may be why you have no chlorine residual--either the algae itself consumed it, or the algae + the metals sequestrant consumed it. It's going to take getting your chlorine up there and keeping it there to clear it up.

I also have two questions for you--what type of test kit are you you using to test with, and did you add CYA to the pool to get your 35 reading? If so, did you add it via pucks (which would cause the metals to fall out if there was not enough sequestrant), or powder (which might cause slight clouding if you broadcasted it instead of adding it through the skimmer)?

Finally, in order to lower that TA, aeration alone won't do it. You need to use acid to drop the pH (and the alk goes down with it), then aerate to bring the pH back up.....then drop it again with acid and aerate until the TA ratchets down to where you want it.

Hope this helps....
Janet

[Pamsel]

Hi Janet,

Thank you so much for your reply. I was confused about the sequestrant - the guy that installed the liner said it would drop out and then we should vacuum to waste. I've added one gallon so far. I will check the label again and add more, if needed. I added CYA powder via a mesh bag, hung in the skimmer basket. It took about 30 hours for it to dissolve. I am using Ben's test kit that I got last summer.

I have been using Muriatic Acid to drop the PH, then aerating until the PH rises again. I've not been at it long enough to do the cycle more than once yet, but have lowered the TA from 560, where I started, to 460 this morning. I read everything I could find about it on the pool solutions site and on this forum and learned that this is the only way to get the high TA down.

Well, I guess I do have algae growing already then. It took over three days to fill the pool, via our hose, and I didn't have chlorine in there during that time. I guess that was a mistake. So, I'm back to fighting algae. Unfortunately, that's a problem I'm familiar with! :( I'll get it up to shock level again and keep it there, along with a little more Stain Ban, and see if we can't get this water cleared up soon.

Thank you so much for your help, Janet. I really do appreciate it.

[CarlD]

The water going from clear green to cloudy green is the real clue to algae. I suggest you abandon all other "corrections" and shock that water up to the shock level of 15 and keep it there. All your other problems are minor once you have an algae infestation.

That's IMHO.

[mbar]

Yes, you should sanitize the pool first before you deal with the metals - the chlorine will get used up with the sequestering agent too. Sometimes sequestering agent makes the water cloudy too, so it is best to know that the water is clean before starting with the metals, this way there is no question that it is not algae. Keep us informed and we can help you through this:)

[Pamsel]

Ok, I shocked the pool at sundown tonight. I did not add more sequestering agent because I had put in more than the instructions called for already, which could be part of my problem, I now realize. The pool liner guy said I needed to get that sequestering agent in right away because we have so much iron. What I should have done was get chlorine in right away, as the pool was filling, it seems. I must learn not to listen to "pool guys"! :D I'll keep it at shock level now until things clear up. I'll keep you posted and thanks again for all the great help.

[waterbear]

The pool guy was correct in saying to get the sequesterant in right away. The purpose of that was to 'deactive' the metals so they would not react witht the chlorine that you should have put in next!

[Pamsel]

Thank you for the further explanation Evan. I learn more about this pool every summer. By the way, when I said I need to not listen to "pool guys", I was NOT talking about You! :D

Last night, it turns out, that my husband and I both added chlorine to the pool which resulted in shocking it to 26! :eek: This morning the pool looks basicly the same except that when I got down to get my water sample, I could see a little further down the side. My chlorine reading this morning is:
FC - 12
CC - 1
TC - 13

[CarlD]

Thank you for the further explanation Evan. I learn more about this pool every summer. By the way, when I said I need to not listen to "pool guys", I was NOT talking about You! :D

Last night, it turns out, that my husband and I both added chlorine to the pool which resulted in shocking it to 26! :eek: This morning the pool looks basicly the same except that when I got down to get my water sample, I could see a little further down the side. My chlorine reading this morning is:
FC - 12
CC - 1
TC - 13

OK!!!!! That means you are fighting it and making progress. You should have immediately added bleach to raise the FC back to either shock level or 25, whichever is higher (because you are fighting so much). Check it 2 to 3x a day and add bleach whenever it drops below the shock level.

Keep that filter going 24/7 and vacuum to waste everyday--and brush it once a day too.

[Pamsel]

Thanks, Carl. We're on it! :) I'll let you know when it's clear and sparkling!

[Pamsel]

Murphy's Law seems to be in effect right now at our house. By this afternoon our water had cleared enough to begin to see the bottom of the pool in the shallow end. Early evening our pump lost its prime and we could not get it to prime again. We were certain there was an air leak. (We actually have suspected that we had a small leak for awhile that we hadn't been able to pinpoint before.) I guess it got worse and became a real problem so we finally had to address it and determined where the problem is. We discovered cracks in the coupling that goes from the lines to the pump basket so can't do anything until tomorrow morning. I plan to be at the pool store when it opens in the morning to get a new coupling and get things running again. So hopefully, tomorrow we can continue on with chlorination. Right now, everything has had to come to a halt, since we can't run the filter, so I'm sure it will set things back in clearing up the algae, but we'll get back at it as soon as we can replace the cracked coupling.

Pools are supposed to be fun, right?? :rolleyes:

[CarlD]

Ouch!

Do you have something to keep the water moving at least? A robotic cleaner is best as they are virtually the same as a filter--one cycle with an Aquabot, Blue Diamond or Dolphin is the same as a filter cycle. I used that a few weeks ago when the drain cap on my filter cracked--I cut out the filter and ran the Blue Diamond.

If not, do you have something like a submersible portable sump pump, just to keep the water moving?

[Pamsel]

We do have a robotic cleaner. I didn't realize it would circulate the water in the same way. I'll get that going in the pool immediately. Thanks so much, Carl. Can I add chlorine with just the robotic going . . . will it circulate the water enough to mix the chlorine and not allow it to settle on the bottom? I was thinking I might be able to slowly pour it into a stream made by the sump pump - We do also have a portable sump pump. I think I'll put that in the shallow end and keep the robotic toward the deep end, so as not to have it hang up on the sump pump. The more the better, eh?

[Pamsel]

Update -
Pool pump is fixed and working like a charm. Water is clear and sparkling. Now, back to work on lowering the TA. Thank you again for all the great help!

[CarlD]

Great!

The high-end robotic cleaners (the ones that are shaped like a house, with a big handle and tractor treads) will not only move the water, they will filter it--one cycle with my Blue Diamond or my older Dolphin Dynamic (when it worked) would filter the water as well as a full pool cycle with the pump. Their filtration rate is roughly equivalent to a DE filter, better than a sand or cart filter.

Happily, in my friend's pool the Dolphin is working better for him than it ever worked for me.

[Pamsel]

Thanks for the info Carl. We have an Aquabot Turbo. It does a pretty good job but spends a little too much time on the sides and seems to not get dirt that's collected right in the curve where the sides meet the bottom. I didn't know that I don't need to be running the filter while the Aquabot is going. I normally run the filter all the time.

[CarlD]

Thanks for the info Carl. We have an Aquabot Turbo. It does a pretty good job but spends a little too much time on the sides and seems to not get dirt that's collected right in the curve where the sides meet the bottom. I didn't know that I don't need to be running the filter while the Aquabot is going. I normally run the filter all the time.

Pam,

One of the diagnostics for these gadgets when they aren't working perfectly is to turn OFF the filter while it's running. The moving water can offset and upset how the robot finds its way around the pool. They don't actually seem to have sensors in them--so my guess is that the controlling computer reads a change in power requirements from the motors (voltage/amperage draw changes) and figures it's run into something and then uses THAT as its senser information. Clever and logical!

Having had my Dolphin apart, and the Blue Diamond being more open inside, I see that the B/D has three drive motor each 3x the size of the ones in the Dolphin, yet it's a much lighter unit. So far, it's been much better for me.

Happily, my Dolphin is now my friend's Dolphin and it's working much better for him.

The Aquabots have a good rep, too.

[Pamsel]

Thanks once again, Carl. You're a wealth of information! I do appreciate it. From now on I will turn off the filter when I use the sweeper and see how it works. It's a world better than the little cheapie that was here when we bought the house, so I still like the Aquabot...just those couple of issues that could be improved. I'll see if it changes with the filter off.

Happy Summer days to you! You're a great guy - spending your time helping people like me! :) Glad your old Dolphin is working well for your friend. It always feels better to pass along something to someone else who can use it, rather than let it end up in a dump somewhere!