Chlorine Lock ????

[poolrescue30]

I have a 33k gallon vinyl lined pool.had ahell ofa time getting the water clean upon start up 3 weeks ago.I did have a LOT of leaves in the deep end after the pool guys removed the cover and let it all go in the pool .My combined chlorine is steady at 4.6 ppm and free chlorine is .6 ppm. The pool store is tellimg me I have "chlorine lock" due to organic materials that were in the pool.
The water finally got clear and is even sparkling .the kids went in over the weekend and did not complain of any irritation.How do I get rid of the chlorine lock ??
THANKS

[JohnT]

What is your CYA level?

[Watermom]

I think you must have your chlorine numbers listed backwards. Your FC must be 4.6 and your CC must be 0.6. Post a full set of current water testing results taken with a drops-based kit, including cya as JohnT suggested, and somebody here can take a look. Also, tell us exactly what all you have added to your pool --- not just "shock", but ingredients.

[poolrescue30]

My Numbers:

Alkalinity 160

pH 7.2

CYA 40

Hardness 220

Total Chlorine 4.6

Free Chlorine 0

[Watermom]

Your numbers are fine. With a cya of 40, just keep your chlorine between 3-6 all the time. When you let it dip below 3 is when you risk starting an algae bloom. Watch your ph. Anywhere between 7.2-7.8 is good. Below 7.0 is acidic and can damage your pool. Your alk is a little high, but shouldn't cause any problems. Ignore what the pool store says about chlorine lock. If your numbers are good like yours are, and the water is sparkling, go swim and enjoy your pool. Hope this helps.

BTW FC + CC = TC always.

[waterbear]

My Numbers:


Total Chlorine 4.6

Free Chlorine 0
If this is correct it means that you have NO free chlorine and all the chlorine in your pool is combined chlorine. This indicates a very high organic load or high ammonia levels in your water.
Did your CYA level drop over the winter? Was any kind of algaecide or teatement added to the pool at openening such as Yellow Treat? (a powder that requires shocking afterward to kill algae and 'clean' the water).
You might want to test the ammonia and nitrate levels in your water (most pool stores don't test for these. Use an aquarium test kit to test them).

[Watermom]

Evan,
I assumed it was simply a testing/reporting error on poolrescue30's part. I assumed he meant FC 4.6 and CC 0.6. If you read back to his first post, at that point he said CC 4.6. So, I just assumed reporting error on his part rather than a significant problem.

[waterbear]

Evan,
I assumed it was simply a testing/reporting error on poolrescue30's part. I assumed he meant FC 4.6 and CC 0.6. If you read back to his first post, at that point he said CC 4.6. So, I just assumed reporting error on his part rather than a significant problem.
He also reported an initial FC of .6 and that the pool store told him that a high organic level was 'locking' the chlorine. We both know that chlorine lock is a myth BUT a high organic level can and will make it next to impossible to hold FC and cal lead to very high CC levels, particularly if there is ammonia in the water. We also know that CYA can degrade in closed pool and be broken down into ammonia compounds. If there was an overdose of ammonia based algae treatments (Yellow Treat, etc.) used this could also explain the problem.
The cure for this is shocking to very high FC levels but this is problematic in a vinyl pool. The other alternative is to dilute (drain and refill) so normal shocking can handle the ammonia and chloriamine levels.

[poolrescue30]

Thank for all your replies , my numbers stated were corect :

Total Chlorine 4.6

Free Chlorine 0

The pool store guy said to dump 2 gallons of amonnia in to break up the organics ???? but according to your replies it sounds like high ammonia is the problem !!! Do I need to drop the water level ?? if so how much ??/ THANKS

[mas985]

Sounds like you need to shock the pool. 8 gallons of 6% bleach should do.

[poolrescue30]

I've shocked already 3 times with Non-chlorine shock , and 3 times with chlorine shock. Is the bleach better than 'store" shock ?? how do I find the percentages onf the bleach ??

THANKS !!!

[mas985]

I've shocked already 3 times with Non-chlorine shock , and 3 times with chlorine shock. Is the bleach better than 'store" shock ?? how do I find the percentages onf the bleach ??

THANKS !!!

Skip the non-chlorine shock. I don't think really does much but bleach is a much cheaper way to shock the pool and it won't add anything that you really don't need anyway. Bleach is a very effective way to remove the combined chlorine. Walmart is about the cheapest you will find 6% bleach, just make sure it is the plain version without additives.

You will need 8 gallons to bring the pool up to shock level and maybe more to keep it there for a day or so. So you might want to get a little bit more. You might also be fighting some algae which might require you to keep the pool at shock level for more than a day to ensure a good kill. Part of the problem maybe that you did not use enough chlorine for a good shock so that is why you need to start with 8 gallons. It seems like a lot but it will cost less in the long run to get things back to normal.

[waterbear]

Thank for all your replies , my numbers stated were corect :

Total Chlorine 4.6

Free Chlorine 0

The pool store guy said to dump 2 gallons of amonnia in to break up the organics ???? but according to your replies it sounds like high ammonia is the problem !!! Do I need to drop the water level ?? if so how much ??/ THANKS
Pool store guy missed the mark. Adding anhydrous ammonia to a pool with algae and then shocking will produce monochloramine which will quickly kill the algae http://www.poolsolutions.com/tips/tip08.html but it creates a hugh chlorine demand and you will have NO FC and all CC. http://www.poolsolutions.com/tips/tip40.html

It is NOT what you want to do when you already have a situation where you have all CC and no FC. My suggestion is to test for ammonia using an aquarium test kit. If you have a lot of ammonia in the water then all you can do is either drain and refill to dilute it and then shock or shock repeatedly with bleach. Non chlorine shock is not that effective against ammonia and CC that have already formed. Shocking with chorine and UV from sunlight are.

[poolrescue30]

Ok,
I'm going to shock today with 8 gallons of the Walmart Ultra bleach.Do I pour it around the pool or into the skimmers? I have a vinyl liner and don't want to bleach it .How will I know if I hit 20ppm ?? When should I add more bleach to "keep it" at 20ppm ??

[waterbear]

Ok,
I'm going to shock today with 8 gallons of the Walmart Ultra bleach.Do I pour it around the pool or into the skimmers? I have a vinyl liner and don't want to bleach it .How will I know if I hit 20ppm ??
By testing your water. You DO have a good testkit with the FAS-DPD chlorine test, don't you? It's a BASIC piece of pool equipment!
When should I add more bleach to "keep it" at 20ppm ??
When your testing has shown that the level has dropped below 20 ppm.

Hope this helps. You really need a good test kit, Many people don't get one until they run into a problem like yours. If you has been testing your own water all along... you get the idea.

[poolrescue30]

HI,
I dumped in the 8 gallons of 6% Bleach on Tuesday morning , then had to leave town on an emergency for work so I only got back tonight .I do not have the FAS-DPD chlorine test kit and will get one, however the pool water looks much clearer now , pool test kit shows 2-3 ppm chlorine, Alkalinity of 100, and pH of 6.8, so I added a little pH rise and we"ll see tomorrow eveneing how it is .I think we might have cleared up some of the CC problem.
Can anyone tell me where to get a FAS-DPD chlorine test that goes up to 20ppm?
thanks

[waterbear]

the FAS-DPD test will go up to about 50 ppm FC! You want a Taylor K-2006 or the TF100 from TF Test Kits (google TF Test Kits).

[CarlD]

the FAS-DPD test will go up to about 50 ppm FC! You want a Taylor K-2006 or the TF100 from TF Test Kits (google TF Test Kits).

Don't forget that Leslie's On-Line sells their FAS-DPD Chlorine Service Test Kit that is a twin to the K-2006, just re-badged for Leslie's. About $60 or $70. Sadly, they no longer have the vast range of single kits--you could buy just a FAS-DPD test or just the reagents from them but it doesn't seem so anymore. I read that Taylortechnologies.com got hacked so C/C purchases on line are closed there. I don't know if it's true.

All 3 kits are equivalent--whichever you get will pay for itself VERY quickly. I bought my PS-232 when I still had a 15'x3' Intex Donut and it STILL was worth its weight in gold to me.

[chem geek]

The least expensive source for the Taylor K-2006 I believe is this link (https://asp5.secure-shopping.com/spspools/details.asp?prodid=1259&cat=1200&path=) while the TF100 kit at tftestkits.com that waterbear talked about is at this link (http://www.tftestkits.com/) but has 36% more volume of reagents so is comparably priced "per test" to the first link. The Leslie's kit is also sold online here (http://www.lesliespool.com/browse/Home/Water-Testing/Test-Kits/Chlorine-FAS-DPD-Service-Test-Kit/D/30100/P/1:100:4000:400000/I/81329). Of course, you need to add shipping costs to compare what it would be compared to driving to Leslie's, though with gas prices these days just driving around is a factor to consider!

Yes, it's true that Taylor no longer accepts credit cards online since they were hacked, but they do take credit card orders over the phone (during business hours). Another alternative for individual kits, such as the Taylor K-1515-A for just the FAS-DPD chlorine test if you've already got the others, is poolcenter.com here (http://www.poolcenter.com/taylor_test_kits.htm).

Richard

[CarlD]

The Leslie's kit is also sold online here (http://www.lesliespool.com/browse/Home/Water-Testing/Test-Kits/Chlorine-FAS-DPD-Service-Test-Kit/D/30100/P/1:100:4000:400000/I/81329). Of course, you need to add shipping costs to compare what it would be compared to driving to Leslie's, though with gas prices these days just driving around is a factor to consider!

Not a worry. I've never seen the FAS-DPD Chlorine Service Test Kit in a store, just online. I once, in one store, in White Plains, NY, found the FAS-DPD powder. The clerk didn't know what it was, how to price it, etc. so he just gave it to me! In the store in Greenbrook NJ, they had the combo FAS-DPD test--not a full kit, just FAS-DPD and Monopersulfate (which uses the FAS-DPD reagents + 1) for $20 so I grabbed it--Taylor sells this one kit for $65!!!!! But that's all.

[poolrescue30]

I got my chlorine lock down a bit, pool store still says it's at a 1. I did do the 8 gallons of 6% bleach TWICE already . The pool looks great and the water's fine, but my free chlorine is being "eaten up". i ordered a FAS_DPD kit as well as a Lamotte color proq7, hey it'll be more accuarate than the 18 year old at the pool store .What is the proper CYA level for a 33,000 inground vinyl liner pool ? where is my chlorine going?
Thanks

[CarlD]

CYA level is measured in parts per milion (PPM). That means that the size of the pool is irrelevant. Your local weather conditions and how your water retains chlorine will determine the ideal. As a WAG, in the NE, 30-50 is a good level. In the deep South a higher level of 50 to 70 is preferable.

But you MUST retain the correct residual levels of chlorine for your level of CYA.

[poolrescue30]

OK, I just used the lamotte kit. my numbers are real bad..... Can you please tell me what to do first !!!!

.05 FCL

.96 TCL

7.1 PH

16 ALK

211 CH

92 CYA

THANKS !!!

[CarlD]

First off, there is no such thing as "Chlorine Lock". This is a bit of pool store nonsense and even if there was, you have to have CYA above 150 to 200ppm before you get it--or something that looks like chlorine lock.

How did you get your CYA to 92 from 40????

If that's correct, you need 11 gallons of Ultra bleach....or if you have a pool store that sell 5 gallon carboys of nominal 12%, you'll need the whole thing.

Have the pool store test your water and see if the numbers match your Lamotte test. Electronic testers look cool but they are notoriously inaccurate. You'd do better with a simple WalMart HTH 5-way drop test kit. Don't buy anything the pool store guy tries to sell you but the liquid chlorine--you'll need to put a deposit on the carboy but you can use the empty as the deposit next time.

You need to go back to our various threads on algae fighting--and stick to it. You have been dumping a bunch of stuff in, and hoping it will magically clear it up.

There's no magic, there's no mystery. You need to consistently shock your pool ONLY WITH BLEACH OR LIQUID CHLORINE until the TC and the FC match and your FC levels don't keep dropping rapidly. Some loss over 24 hours is normal, but to go from 15 to 1 in a 8 hours means you are fighting organics. So you should be checking your water 2 to 3x a day and immediately adding chlorine if FC is low and/or not matching TC (remember: TC = FC + CC always and forever--and you want CC to be 0).

The pool store will sell you clarifiers, algaecides, mineral erosion kits, non-chlorine "shock", cal-hypo "shock", phosphate removers, calcium increasers, but they won't sell you what you need: an FAS-DPD Chlorine test kit. So use them for what you can, and buy from them what you cannot get elsewhere. If you find a good, knowledgable pool store salesman, give him your business if his prices aren't TOO unreasonable...I know one and only one of the 10 stores I will go to.

I know you've been working hard. Ordering the FAS-DPD test kit was smart.

I think the hardest two things about fighting algae are:
1) Not panicking
2) Being patient and persistant.
Otherwise, the rules for fighting are very simple:

1) Adjust pH and measure CYA (if you can).
2) Keep your FC at the recommended shock level for that CYA (See the "Best Guess" chart).
3) Use only bleach or liquid chlorine to maintain that shock level, and test it and adjust it 2x to 3x (better) per day. You can do it 4x or 5x a day--you'll use more chlorine but you may kill the algae faster. Expect to use lots of chlorine.
4) Run your filter 24/7.
5) Once a day, vacuum to waste and brush your pool.
6) Be patient and persistent.

*7) Establish a daily regimen of pool maintenance that prevents this happening again.
a. Just test pH and chlorine every day, and adjust if needed.
b. Once a week run all the tests in the FAS-DPD kit (FC, CC, pH, T/A, CYA).
c. If you have a hard pool, test CH too, weekly.
d. If you have a vinyl pool, test CH 2 or 3x a summer--no more is needed unless you have a problem.
e. (you can skip acid and base demand tests--they vary widely depending on conditions and you don't need them--I don't believe the TF-100 even has them, instead having larger amounts of the other reagents).

[poolrescue30]

Hi,
Went to the pool store on Friday my numbers were :

FCL 0

TCL 0.4

CC 0.4

PH 7.3

ALK 0 !!!

CYA 55

So I put in Alkalinity up to raise ALK And I shocked the pool with 8 gallons of 6% bleach.I also put tabs in the chlorinator and turned it up.

Today's numbers were:
FCL 0.0

TCL 1.2

CC 1.2

pH 7.7

Alk 89

CYA 70


Pool Store recommended I use Sodium Hypochlorite 12.5 % to shock , I bought 2 five gallons jugs , how much should I use at one time to shock the pool ?? He suggested 5 gallons tonight, retest tomororw morning and see from there .i want to hit the 20 ppm mark but did not receive my FAS-DPD test kit yet .Any Advice how to proceed.

i have used this pool store for the last 5 years, the other pool store I went to was a new one .I'm gonna stick to the old guy but his chemicals are very expensive .THANKS

[CarlD]

Yeah, I agree--one 5 gallon jug--same as I recommended before. But you'll probably need to do it twice a day and test the water each time.

Don't add anything else. From now on stick to liquid chlorine. The 12.5% stuff you got from the pool store is basically double-strength ultra bleach--one gallon is like 2 gallons of Ultra Bleach 6%. I am actually finding it more economical to use the 12.5% 5 gallon carboys--it costs me the equivalent of $1.70/gallon of Ultra Bleach--far less than current price bleach.

Your T/A is fine (but Arm&Hammer Baking Soda would have cost you 1/3 and is IDENTICAL to what you used).

Your CYA is a tad high, but all you have to do is shock at 20ppm and (when it's finally clear) maintain in the 5 to 10ppm range. Keep it there and you should find you use less chlorine.

[poolrescue30]

Thanks for your Response CarlD,
I do not have my FAS-DPD test kit yet.Should I shock it with one 5 gal. jug tonight and restest in the pool store tomorrow ? or wait till the kit comes and test it 2 hours after the Liquid Chlorine goes in ??

[aylad]

You can test it 2 hours after the liquid chlorine comes in, since to clear this up you're going to need to sustain your 20 ppm reading--it'll probably be time to add more, anyway.

You need to get the tabs out of the chlorinator, or at least turn it off. As your CYA gets higher, so does your baseline and shock values for chlorine required to keep your pool clear....and if you're already having problems getting it clear, the last thing you want to do is increase your chlorine demand a little more.

Janet

[CarlD]

Thanks, Jan!

Do a seach on "Shot Glass Method" which allows you to use an OTO test kit to get an approximation for higher FC levels than are on the scale.

You may also want to search on OTO colors above 5ppm--Ben had done some work on colors for much higher OTO levels.

Meanwhile, over at TFP, they are debating some of that and there's an easy-to-find discussion with the color scales that Ben had done. Maybe we can get some cross-pollination....

[poolrescue30]

I guess I forgot to update you all properly.the algae is all gone, none visibly left in the pool.the water is perfectly clear and you can see the seams in the liner at 10 feet deep. So i really don't know what's eating the chlorine.I will test the water again tomorrow, and try to maintain 5-10 ppm but can the kids swim in such high chlorine ??

[CarlD]

Remember:

Algae itself isn't dangerous--you can swim in lakes, rivers and ponds with algae. But algae forces your chlorine to be consumed fighting it, leaving you no chlorine to fight the bad biologics--water-borne diseases and bacteria. It strips your pool of its defenses against the serious stuff. That's why you have to get your CC to <.5 and your FC to hold and not drop precipitously.

You can swim in higher chlorine levels (relative to your CYA level) just wear older bathing suits so if they fade it's OK.

[poolrescue30]

I went to the pool store this morning at 9:30 am, I had shocked the pool yesterday at 4:00pm with the 5 gallon jug of 12.5 Liquid Chlorine.This morning's numbers were :

FCL 0 !!!!!

TCL 1.7

CC 1.7


pH 7.8

ALK 99

CYA 70

There is no visible algae in the pool , pool is crystal clear , what in the world is using up the chlorine ?? the skimmer bakets were cleaned , filter backwashed , before I shocked and 15 hours later , NO CHLORINE ??? Of course the pool store did a phosphate test , but that too came out negative .
Pool store suggested I shock tonight with TWO 5 gallong jugs of 12.5 , is that gonna do it ???
I need help !!!!!!!!!!

[CarlD]

No. It's better to shock tonight with one carboy and then again in the morning.

BUT YOU MUST KEEP UP A CONSISTENT LEVEL OF CHLORINE OR YOU WILL NEVER SOLVE YOUR PROBLEM! AND ALGAE IS NOT YOUR PROBLEM--YOU HAVE ANOTHER BIOLOGIC YOU MUST KILL!

You MUST check and adjust your chlorine 3x a day now. You have no alternative--2x a day isn't enough. 1st thing in the morning, late afternoon or before dinner, and at bed time.

Use the dilution method with your OTO set if you must. Use test strips if you must--you can tell with them if FC is above 10ppm or below it. You MUST hammer your pool with chlorine--putting in two carboys at once may well damage your liner--better to get your pool to shock level and keep it there, seperating them by 8-12 hours.

[chem geek]

waterbear gave you some advice in this post (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?p=56248&postcount=13) regarding the possibility of ammonia and getting an inexpensive ammonia test kit from a pet/fish/aquarium store. I suggest you get such a kit since it will tell you if you have ammonia in the water. Ammonia can be formed in a pool over the winter when a pool is "let go" (not maintained with chlorine) as bacteria can convert CYA into ammonia.

If you have ammonia in the water, then it takes a cumulative FC of around 10x that ammonia amount to get rid of it. So this can give you a rough idea of how much more chlorine it will take -- if there is ammonia in the water.

Or you can just keep adding chlorine and eventually it will hold, but you won't know how much more it will take.

Also, in this post (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?p=56223&postcount=4) on June 23rd you reported a TA of 160 while in this post (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?p=56443&postcount=23) on July 3rd you reported a TA of 16 from your LaMotte test kit (did you mean 16 drops which is 160 ppm TA?) and this post (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?p=56494&postcount=25) on July 6th where your pool store reports 0 ppm TA after which you added Alkalinity Up. I doubt very much that your TA went away that quickly.

Richard

[poolrescue30]

Chem geek,
I have followed everyone's advice here EXACTLY .I did test for ammonia and it was negative . I gave all the right TA numbers here, it looks like somehow the ALK did nosedive, first it was 160 , then when I said 16, that's what it was 16 , down from 160, then a couple of days later is was 0, we had alot of rain here and I did let out about 3K gallons twice during that period trying to get rid of the CC.
I did dump in 3 gallons of ammonia on the advice of the new pool guy, but I can't imagine the amount of 6% bleach and 12.5% LC was not enough to get rid of that amount .My big question is , is dumping the chlorine in slowly getting the organics I'm trying to kill even if I can't maintain it at a constant level due to work hours ? or am I wasting my time??

THANKS FOR EVERYONE'S HELP AND ADVICE !!!

[chem geek]

I didn't mean to be accusatory...I just saw some things that seemed inconsistent or strange. I'm glad you're hanging in there. As for what to do about the organics or whatever the chlorine demand is coming from, the answer is it depends. If the organics are static such as a fixed amount of pollen, ammonia (which you say you don't have), lotion, etc., then it's the cumulative chlorine amount that gets rid of it. If the organics are living and reproducing such as algae, then if the chlorine level gets low and isn't maintained at or near shock level, then the chlorine demand won't go away. If you don't know what it is, then play it safe and try (as best you can) to keep the chlorine level up as much as possible.

With the TA measurement of 16, was this a pool store measurement? The standard TA test kits have one drop for every 10 ppm so you can't really get 16 ppm with your own test.

Richard

[CarlD]

P-R:
We are all trying to help. We all want you to have a safe, healthy and easy-to-maintain pool.

The reason I'm hammering steps is it sounds like you are inadvertently letting FC levels drop to ineffective and, as 'Geek says, you'll not get organics to stop growing that way. It's like a fire that you have to keep pouring water on or it flares up again.

One final ingredient is needed--P.O.P.P. Pool Owner Patience and Persistence.

[poolrescue30]

Ok, I poured in the 5 gallon 12.5 sodium hypo last night at 10:45 pm, I tested this morning at 8am , and got .5 FC
And 2.00 TCL !!!I put in the sedcond 5 gal. Sodium hypo and by 10:30am, it was only showing 1.2 FCL, 2.2 TCL , so my CC's are still there. Pool guy is at his wits end, gave me two 5 lbs containers of Cqalcium hypochlorite 65% chlrine and told me to mix with water and pour in the skimmer. What are my options, should I drain half the pool ?? Keep on pouring chlorine in ??? Thanks

[CarlD]

Ok, I poured in the 5 gallon 12.5 sodium hypo last night at 10:45 pm, I tested this morning at 8am , and got .5 FC
And 2.00 TCL !!!I put in the sedcond 5 gal. Sodium hypo and by 10:30am, it was only showing 1.2 FCL, 2.2 TCL , so my CC's are still there. Pool guy is at his wits end, gave me two 5 lbs containers of Cqalcium hypochlorite 65% chlrine and told me to mix with water and pour in the skimmer. What are my options, should I drain half the pool ?? Keep on pouring chlorine in ??? Thanks

The Cal-Hypo won't do any good--if anything it will work slower than the Sodium Hypochlorite (the LC you are using). In the water, chlorine is chlorine. It will just make your pH go up. I think you have to keep hammering it with the LC until it goes up and stays up. You are clearly fighting something--I don't know what.

Chem_Geek...What would happen if P-R boosted the borates, then added acid to bring pH down? Would that help at this point or be a waste of time?

[chem geek]

Borates are a rather weak algaecide. They do inhibit algae growth a little, but if the chlorine demand in this particular case is due to algae, I doubt the borates will help enough to make a difference. If this is truly nascent algae growth, then a costly but effective way to stop it is with a phosphate remover, but that's a last resort (a copper algaecide would also work, but then you've got copper to deal with).

The nature of this problem, with FC rapidly consumed, CC rising and then dropping (even at night and rather quickly), sounds very much like ammonia. I went through the posts in this thread and it sounds like anhydrous ammonia was possibly added to the pool. This was a pool opened upon startup which is typically when an ammonia problem can occur after soil bacteria convert CYA into ammonia. I did not find an earlier post with an ammonia measurement -- only yesterday's post that said it was tested for ammonia and was negative. I wouldn't trust the pool store numbers at all.

poolrescue30, if you still have your own ammonia test, test the water again for ammonia. If you do not have such a test, please get one at a pet/fish/aquarium store. The ammonia test is inexpensive. Do not trust the pool store for measurements. The rapid drop in TA from 160 to 16 in 10 days and then to zero three days later makes no sense whatsoever (a zero TA in the normal TA drop-test showing up immediately red instead of green would mean the pH is 4.5 and is completely inconsistent with the reported pH of 7.1).

Richard

[CarlD]

Thanks, Richard.

[poolrescue30]

I did do the stick test for ammonia, I will pick up the other ammonia test kit they had in the store that uses drops and a color card , similar to the pool 5 way test kits. I know for sure I put in 3 gallons of ammonia on start up by suggestion of the new pool guy (who I don't use anymore). Can 3 gallons in a 33k pool , do so much damage ?? How do we get rid if it is ammonia, maybe we should treat it as such even with the stick test showing negative. ??

[poolrescue30]

Ok, update: I purchased an Ammonia test kit with the drops and color card , goes from 0-8ppm. I will do it as soon as I get home and test the FCL and TCL again.

[poolrescue30]

Ok, the reults are in :
On the Lamotte kit, FCL is .41
TCL is 1.45
On the FAS-DPD kit it turned a tinge pink when the dpd powder was put in, then 1 drop of R-0871 cleared it up , which should indicate .5 FCL , then 5 drops of R-0003 turned it pink , then 2 drops of 0871 turned it clear which should indicate 1.0 of CC , I don't know if that means we are coming closer to solving this, I did put in the 10 pounds of Calcium hypo into the skimmers at 10:30 am before leaving to a meeting , and the pool is cloudy due to the chemicals. I did these CL tests at 4:45pm, the Ammonia test came out with 0.25 ppm (mg/L) so I don't think ammonia is the problem. There is no visible algae, no alge on the floor. I'm going crazy .....Should I use 8 gallons of 6% bleach overnight ???

[CarlD]

Did you measure that FC tonight? Did all the Cal-Hypo dissolve (that's why it's cloudy--don't worry about THAT for now)?

If so, it's now evening, then add 5 gallons of LC...I think you are fighting the organic, whatever it is. Check your FAS-DPD test in the morning, too--BEFORE you add more. If it's come up, you are making progress. But you'll need to add enough LC to get it to the shock level.

PATIENCE!

[chem geek]

I know for sure I put in 3 gallons of ammonia on start up by suggestion of the new pool guy (who I don't use anymore). Can 3 gallons in a 33k pool , do so much damage ??

Ok, the reults are in :
the Ammonia test came out with 0.25 ppm (mg/L) so I don't think ammonia is the problem.
I don't know the concentration of ammonia that was used, but let's say it was 10%. That would be about 2.5 pounds or in your 33,000 gallon pool that's 9 ppm which is a lot and would require a cumulative amount of 90 ppm FC to get rid of. Also, you could have had ammonia before you even added it, from soil bacteria converting CYA into ammonia.

The fact that you are measuring even a little ammonia along with CC probably indicates that this was the problem -- but the good news is that you may be close to done! I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Richard

[CarlD]

Ditto, here!

Thanks, Richard--the ammonia issue is a very, very unusual one for our members.

[poolrescue30]

Update: I had to be out of town yesterday till this afternoon.I had a friend pour in two 174 oz jugs of 6% bleach , last night at 6pm .This afternnon when I got back i took a sample to the pool store , it showed FCL 0.1 ppm and TCL 0.6 ppm, I hope that means the CC going down is a sigh the problem is going away , although i'm not keeping any FCL in thr pool ?? They suggested 3 lbs more Calcium Hypo into the skimmers and check 3 hours later and then 8 hours later on the FCL level . Does it make sense ???
Thanks

[CarlD]

I have told you before: the Cal-Hypo is not better than the liquid chlorine. It even may make your pool cloudy for a while until it all dissolves in, and it will raise your calcium level, which may be harmless.

But unless the Cal-Hypo is seriously cheaper, there's not any point to using it.

The reason they keep pushing it is that is what pool store clerks do. They see a bag of "Shock" and it's full of cal-hypo so they think that MUST be what you use.

But, as I said before: In your water, chlorine is chlorine. And Liquid Chlorine goes to work FASTER because it doesn't have to dissolve first.

[poolrescue30]

CarlD,I appreciate your help. The pool store I go to is family owned an very expensive on their chemicals, but their computer water test, has been used by me for over 5 years. Sometimes I buy the chemicals there, sometimes I go elsewhere. The owner's son has been doing my test himself, he is trying to figure it out. In fact , when he said to throw in 2 carboys of LC, after having already.purchased 2 three daya prior, he threw in the second carboy for free. He had called his chemical manufacturer and spoken to the chemist there and went through all my numbers with him, they suggested the calcium hypo instead of LC,(which their company also sells to the pool store) they said to throw in the 3 bags tonight and test the FC 3 hours later and then tomorrow morning. I did the FAS-DPD test tonight after the 3 hours. It showed 1 ppm of FC and 1 ppm of CC. The chemist suggested 3 bags per 10k gallons of water over the weekend if the FCL doesn't stay in till the morning. I don't want anymore calcium hypo, my pool will be clousy for a month, how much LC should I put in ?thanks