Bleach..How Much is TOO much

[stma]

Battling green water for the past 8-10 days...pumping in about 2 gallon of 5% daily in hopes things will get better...
Pool is vinyl lined AG and the question:
At what PPM of Chlorine will I start to fade the liner ?? I've been keeping it between 10-16PPM

Thanks in advance folks !

Steve

[aylad]

What's your CYA level, and how many gallons?

You're going to have a hard time getting enough bleach in there to fade the liner while there's algae present, but how much is enough to kill the algae is a different question.....

Janet

[stma]

Thanks Janet...
My Taylor regents are on their way....So I do not know the CYA at this point, however, i'm holding the Chlorine PPM numbers overnite (pump running), so the assumption is that i have "some" CYA....
I threw this question out there for I remember reading one of Ben's post concerning the PPM vs. Faded liner equation....(I read it when I was turning over from Baquacil)...

Steve

[CarlD]

Thanks Janet...
My Taylor regents are on their way....So I do not know the CYA at this point, however, i'm holding the Chlorine PPM numbers overnite (pump running), so the assumption is that i have "some" CYA....
I threw this question out there for I remember reading one of Ben's post concerning the PPM vs. Faded liner equation....(I read it when I was turning over from Baquacil)...

Steve

If you exceed the shock level for the CYA level you have in the water, you run the risk of fading your liner. The more you exceed it, the higher the risk.

[Water_man]

Battling green water for the past 8-10 days...pumping in about 2 gallon of 5% daily in hopes things will get better...
Pool is vinyl lined AG and the question:
At what PPM of Chlorine will I start to fade the liner ?? I've been keeping it between 10-16PPM

Thanks in advance folks !

Steve

I won over the green monster in four days by shocking to 20 ppm, brushing, vacuuming and backwashing. I don't have a vinyl liner and I don't know if 20 is safe for you, but you can check. Seems that your FC level is too low - it shouldn't take so long.
My Taylor kit arrived after I had already "won the war". Before that I guesstimated CYA and pH with strips and store tests. The store read my CYA as 56. Taylor read 60.
Also, make sure your pH is balanced around 7.4 because chlorine won't be as active at a higher pH. I also used polyquat algaecide. If you have a robotic cleaner even better. Needless to say pump should run 24/7 and you should keep backwashing your filter, or the equivalent routine with non-DE filters.
Hope an encouragement from someone who had just "been there, done that" helps. :)

[stma]

Thank You folks..I thought the same about the PPM's being too low, so I increased the bleach...I placed three gallons in, waited an hour and retested..I came up with 15PPM...?? This testing was done after the sun went down
Based on the calculator, this amount of bleach (assume 5.25% and 7000gallon volume, and a 9PPM starting point) should have put me in the 30PPM range....??
Now I'm wondering if the bleach I'm buying: Sho-Brite bleach from Big-Lots is actually 5.25% strength..>>> the obvious answer is to "Read the panel on the container"...but this particular brand does not show percentages....
ANyone using the BigLot's bleach noticing a problem with strength of product ??

[Watermom]

Unless I missed it, I don't see where you have posted a complete set of current water testing numbers. That would be a good idea and may give us some other clues to be able to help.

[stma]

Thanks WMom...
My numbers are all over the place:

FC:20 (Did have a CC number a few days ago, but that is no longer)
PH:8.2 (was 7.0- 10 hours ago) ??
ALK:90

The most important # I won't have till later....the CYA....Although I have been adding a ton of water in the past 10 days or so (to make up for backwashing) and we have been rained on a bit here in Pennsylvania...honestly I cannot see the CYA # being high at all....When I closed down last year, CYA was running @45-50....Unless that number can INCREASE over the winter, I should be OK....

I'm baffled by the PH bounce as well....i thought perhaps the high CL number was causing the increase in PH ??? I don't know....

As always, Thanks Mom for your input...

Your turn :>

[Water_man]

[quote=stma;55491]
FC:20 (Did have a CC number a few days ago, but that is no longer)
PH:8.2 (was 7.0- 10 hours ago) ??
quote]

High FC level gives a false high pH indicator reading.
People use sodium thiosulphate to neutralize the FC but Taylor doesn't recommend it.
Do you have a pH reading of the water before the shocking? If you trust your previous pH reading of 7 I wouldn't worry about pH. The alternative is to check with a glass electrode or a pH meter. Every lab carries one. I'm checking getting one because I don't like comparing colors.

If your CYA is 50, you still need FC =20 to shock, as per chem geek's table and you haven't reached that level yet. I used Walmart's 6% bleach, and so do many others here.


Has your green color changed into blue yet?
Once it does, you know you're on the right track.

Finally, I haven't seen you reporting anything about brushing. You need to keep brushing all the surfaces so that algae sticking to the walls and bottom will be attacked by the chlorine.

[stma]

Ph "was" 7.1 prior to shocking and two hours later I was reading above 8....but if anything I assumed the "pink" in the PH Indicator would have been washed out instead of getting darker....??

Thorough brushing twice a day while shock levels are at their highest..I believe today is 11 days of green, cloudy water...

[aylad]

The bleach sold at Big Lots around here is only 3% strength--might want to call the number on the container and ask what you're using, because if it's the 3% stuff it'll take LOTS to clear up a green pool.

Janet

[stma]

Janet: Is it the Sno-eee brand (gallon size, white container, blue label)?? last year the bottle claimed 5.25%...this year has no marking as to percentage ??

[Water_man]

Ph "was" 7.1 prior to shocking and two hours later I was reading above 8....but if anything I assumed the "pink" in the PH Indicator would have been washed out instead of getting darker....??

Taylor's Water Chem boolket is clear about high pH false reading. See page 11 if you have it.

The common knowledge is that a high enough FC at the proper pH should kill the green algae. Here's an example (http://www.poolandspa.com/page12.htm) which also gives you more tips.
Since the green is persistent, either you haven't reached the proper FC yet, or the pH for some unknown reason is too high, or you have an unusually persistent green monster.
The easiest way is first to make sure you took care of the FC and pH. If this doesn't work I can tell you about my experience with treating "Pink Algae" with Yellow Out.
You can read about it in this thread.

Last season I had pink algae on the walls. The water was clear. At that time I didn't know what I know now thanks to this forum, so when shocking to 5-10 ppm didn't work I was looking for something else. (Little did I know then that I should have tried 20 ppm first, with my CYA of 60.)
Coral Seas has a similar product that works with green algae. It's called Green to Clean.
Check it out here. (http://www.green-to-clean.com/)
Yellow Out did the job, but there are a few drawbacks:

1. You have to start with pH 8. (This was the case with Yellow Out. I'm not sure about Green to Clean.) You are having now uncertainties about your pH. This issue has to be solved.
2. The process works by adding the Yellow Out or Green to Clean and active chlorine together. You already have a supposedly high FC.

If the traditional shocking method doesn't work for you
I'd call Fred as mentioned in my Pink Algae - Yellow Out post and ask for his advice. He doesn't just sell chemicals. He works in the field.
I hope the regular chlorine routine will finally work for you.

[mbar]

High chlorine levels give a false ph reading. That is why it is always recommended to get your ph under control before shocking the pool.:)

[stma]

As always, thank you guys (and gals) for your input...It is true concerning the PH indicator...prior to shocking last nite, my PH read 7.2...
As for the Yellow Out. Green to Clean items: I have no idea what I have as I cannot see past 20 inches into the pool...on Day 12 and absolutely nothing has changes as it pertains to the color and condition of the water....my filter "did" clog every few hours upon start-up, needing constant backwashing but that has since stopped and I'm running a constant 11psi..Unfortunately that is the ONLY positive change so far.......

I did find that my BigLots 5.25% bleach was actually only 3%...(and after thorough testing last nite, I think it's not even 2%)...AND my wife did admit she placed a gallon of 6% Ultra LEMON SCENTED in last week.....

I'll be keeping up with the shock level bleaching for now as this was always a cure-all in the past....after that, it's time for the sledge hammer !!!

[aylad]

Keep going--bleaching it will work when coupled with a good dose of POPP. (Pool owner patience and persistence). I highly recommend staying away from the Yellow-out and other treatments since they tend to cause other problems down the road.

Janet

[Water_man]

Long time no hear. Can you please report what's new?
Hope you have progress.

[stma]

Nitemare contimues !! ...16 days and NO change...The green ,cloudy mass is still holding me at bay...

Via Marie (mbar) suggestion, I tried the Vitamin C "capsule in a sock" method, rubbed it on the sidewalls of the pool and saw stains disappearing :>...Within the hour, i was down to the pool store buying a metal out product, praying that was FINALLY my issue....I waited all day yesterday for the FC to drop to 2 (as suggested by the pool store) and PH at 7....i applied the product, filtered overnite and as of 5 minutes ago, there's been no change.... Although my patience is LONG, LONG Gone, I'll wait a day or two to see if the metal out does anything.....If not, I'll attempt the Ascorbic acid routine...

Ironically enough though, yesterday was the first day since opening that I let the FC levels drop below 20...while the 96 degree sun "baked out" the FC, I started seeing traces of the pool bottom..?? Coincidenc or not ?? I dont know.....

Prior to the metal out:
FC : 2
PH:7.2
ALK: 100
CYA: still awaiting a test..

I'm just hoping this is REALLY a metals issue, so that I can finally tackle THAT problem first hand...

[Water_man]

What does that product supposed to remove? A metal? Which one? Could the store analyze your water and determine? Why would you suddenly have a metal?
Sorry for your on going trouble.

[stma]

Metal Free supposedly suspends the metals...My fill water is from a well and I was told by some area folks that metals have been pretty bad this year...But the final indicator is that my light blue bathtub has a green tint to it....almost IDENTICAL to my pool water.....Metal is either copper or Iron....

the local pool store uses test strips for their determination(s)...Based on that alone, i refused the sample test....

Hopefully things will clear somewhat BUT ITS THE CLOUDING that has got me baffled...All the Bleach (almost 40 gallons)..The Brushing...The Backwashing...The skimmer socks etc, nothing has taken care of that cloud...If I assume correct that metals have fallen out, hopefully the sequestering will work, however the clouding could be it's own issue...

Been a terrible beginning !!!