Looking for a good sand filter

[MaxxFusion]

I have a 24' Above Ground pool and looking for a sand filter. I have a cartridge filter and am sick of cleaning the cartridge. The filter I have I lose a lot of water in order to take the filter apart to get the cartridge out. It such a pain.

What filter would you recommend?

Thanks,
Frank

[Watermom]

I have a 24' AG also. Don't know the model, but I have a Hayward 200 lb. filter and it has been easy to maintain for the past 8 seasons. Bought a new pump last year - 1/2 hp Hayward to replace a 1 hp pump. The smaller pump has been plenty for my pool along with my filter. I don't blame you for wanting to get rid of a cartridge filter. I know I wouldn't want to fool with having to clean one, although some people like them.

[MaxxFusion]

Thanks for the reply. I am thinking I will stick with hayward since that is what I have currently. I am happy with everything but I just dont like the pain of the cartridge and since its such a pain to clean it doesnt get done as often as it should. I know this casues me issues with my water clarity.

What type of sand do you use for the filter? Normal play sand? Also can I use some DE in there?

WOW 1/2 hp pump? When I got mine a few years ago they sold me a 1.5hp pump. I guess its WAY overkill. I figured I should probaly have a 1hp pump now that I know more about pools.

Also what do you do in the winter to winterize the pump? I wouldnt think you would move the 200lb filter.

Thanks,
Frank

[Watermom]

Only use pool filter sand. No play sand. Yes, you can add a little DE to your sand filter. Carl, Al, and I do it and get good results. Add only a little -- enough to raise the pressure by 1 psi. Wait awhile after you add it before deciding you need to add more because you won't necessarily see an immediate rise. If you add too much, do a quick backwash and blow it out and then try again with a smaller amount.

As far as pump sizes, 1.5 hp is way too powerful for your pool. When my 1 hp pump died last year, I let Al, (Poconos), my fellow moderator and our resident pump expert pick out my pump. He chose my 1/2 hp pump which he felt would be adequate and save me some money on energy costs. I initially thought it wouldn't be powerful enough, but he was right. It has been perfectly adequate for my pool. He is an electrical engineer and knows what he is talking about and when he recommended it, I trusted his opinion. Turns out, he was right. (Hear that, Al? I am saying you are right about something. Not everything, mind you :p --- but about my pump, you were!! :rolleyes:)

For the winter, some years, after we drain it, my husband has wheeled it into our shed for the winter; sometimes we just open the plug and cover it with plastic and leave it outside for the winter. We typically do have to replace the pressure gauge each year, but that is cheap so it is no problem.

Hope this helps.

[MaxxFusion]

ANy idea of cost on the sand?

How much of a power savings would you say is the difference between your old and new pump? I need to see if I should sell my old pump and buy a smaller one.

[Poconos]

If you measure the running current and know your electric rates you can get a close $$$ savings number. I never measured anything for savings purposes. At 100% efficiency, which is not the case, it is 746 watts per HP. So multiply by 1.5 as an efficiency fudge (just a guess on my part) and you have around 1100 watts per HP. Running a 1 HP pump for 1 hour with my ficticious efficiency fudge factor and you have 1.1 KWH (kilowatt hour). For a 1/2 HP pump it would be .55 KWH. If the electric rate is 10 cents per KWH you save around 6 cents for every hour as the difference between a 1 and 1/2 HP pump. If you run it 8 hours a day that's about a 50 cent per day saving, or about $15 a month. That little 6 cents an hour adds up. Another consideration is lower HP thus lower flow yields better filtering.
Al

[CarlD]

ANy idea of cost on the sand?

How much of a power savings would you say is the difference between your old and new pump? I need to see if I should sell my old pump and buy a smaller one.

Filter sand is sold in pool stores in 50# bags. It can be as low as $5/bag or as high as $13.- Shop around. If you see it for under $10, buy it. On a 200# filter, that's 4 bags....$20-$40 for your sand--and you'll have it for many, many years if you follow our suggestions. I'm the newbie here--my sand is super-young---only in its 6th season. Watermom is in season 8 or 9 and Poconos is at, what? 13 years, Al? So, if it costs you another $20 for something you'll use for 10-20 years, why spend $20 in gas to save $20 on sand? Just MHO.

There ARE tricks to easier cleaning of carts, but I don't really know them other than soaking it in electric dishwisher powder. And there's a new hose-mounted brush that's supposed to work well. Still, if you search PoolForum, you should find those techniques.

I had a small cart for a 15' Intex donut I used for 3 years. I couldn't figure out how to clean them very effectively, but they were only $10 each so I could get a month out of them--$30 for the summer here in NJ. Personally, I hate carts (like Watermom), but that's me. Other folks SWEAR by them, so before you replace it, you might want to search this and other Internet forums for techniques that make cleaning carts far more painless.

Good luck!

[MaxxFusion]

Thanks. I was looking for a 1/2 hp version of my hayward power flo matrix and didnt see one on their site. What is a good 1/2 hp pump?

[MaxxFusion]

Filter sand is sold in pool stores in 50# bags. It can be as low as $5/bag or as high as $13.- Shop around. If you see it for under $10, buy it. On a 200# filter, that's 4 bags....$20-$40 for your sand--and you'll have it for many, many years if you follow our suggestions. I'm the newbie here--my sand is super-young---only in its 6th season. Watermom is in season 8 or 9 and Poconos is at, what? 13 years, Al? So, if it costs you another $20 for something you'll use for 10-20 years, why spend $20 in gas to save $20 on sand? Just MHO.

There ARE tricks to easier cleaning of carts, but I don't really know them other than soaking it in electric dishwisher powder. And there's a new hose-mounted brush that's supposed to work well. Still, if you search PoolForum, you should find those techniques.

I had a small cart for a 15' Intex donut I used for 3 years. I couldn't figure out how to clean them very effectively, but they were only $10 each so I could get a month out of them--$30 for the summer here in NJ. Personally, I hate carts (like Watermom), but that's me. Other folks SWEAR by them, so before you replace it, you might want to search this and other Internet forums for techniques that make cleaning carts far more painless.

Good luck!

Actually its not the technique thats the problem. I found that using my power washer works very well to get all the gunk out. Its just a pia to get out the pressure washer, drain the filter each time, and ten pull out the cartridge. I find myself not doing it as much as I should and then the water doesnt get filtered correctlybecause of the dirty filter. Not to mention that the cartridge is about $70 or so.

[Poconos]

Check this site:
http://www.inyopools.com/pumps_hayward.aspx
they are in Florida and I think that's where we got Watermoms pump and I'm pretty sure it was the SP2600X5. Stick with the IG pumps. They are maybe built better but the pump basket lid opens easily compared to the twist off AG pump baskets. That may be a 'general' statement. Took only 2 days for delivery if I remember right. This is the same series as my 1 HP that has been running for the 11th season now. If at all possible put it in a shelter to keep the weather off the thing. Any pump exposed to the elements will suck in water droplets when it rains and that shortens the life and makes it a dog to take apart in its later years. Someplace on this forum something like a fiberglass cover, open at both ends, was discussed. Have no idea when or where to find it but a little Googling should turn up something.
Al

[MaxxFusion]

Thanks for the link.

What is the up keep on the sand filter? I know you have to back wash one a week or so but what exactly is backwashing on a sand filter?

Thanks,
Frank

[Watermom]

You don't necessarily have to backwash every week. You just watch the pressure on your filter's guage and when the pressure rises 8-10 psi over your clean filter pressure you backwash. Backwashing is a simple process that involves turning a handle on your filter from the "filter" setting, to the "backwash" setting and letting it run for a minute or two until the water is no longer muddy looking. You then turn the handle to the "rinse" setting and let it run for about 15 seconds. Then, back to the 'filter' setting. That is it. The whole process takes about 2 or 3 minutes. Can't get much more simple than that. (Reminder --- always turn the pump off before turning the handle from one filter setting to another.) Sound easier than cleaning a cartridge filter?? ;)

[CarlD]

Thanks for the link.

What is the up keep on the sand filter? I know you have to back wash one a week or so but what exactly is backwashing on a sand filter?

Thanks,
Frank

Actually, you don't. You backwash when the pressure goes up too much--it can be a day or a month. My filter's been on since late April and I backwashed today for the first time.

Backwashing is literally that. The six-way valve on the top or side of the filter is set so pool water is pumped in the opposite direction it normally flows--like sticking your shop-vac hose in the output to blast it clear when something's stuck. It knocks all the dirt off the sand that's been collecting.

The water is re-directed to the the waste outlet. There's usually a little glass and you watch the water start clear, go brown with dirt, and then go clear again. Then, when you set the valve back to filter, the pressure drops. Today, it dropped 6 pounds.

The hardest part of backwashing (for me) is unrolling and rolling up the backwash hose. The rest is just rotating the valve handle and watching the sight glass. One day I'll sink a pipe into one of the gutter drains that runs to the French Drain in the back that runs across everyone's property and be able to backwash without the hose as well!

[MaxxFusion]

Thanks for all the great input. I think I am going to take the plung and invest in the Hayward sand filter. I found it on ebay for $230 shipped and I found the sand locally for $5.99 a bag.

My question is since I already have the filter hooked up what would be the best way to swap this out? I have a shutoff valve already installed on the pump so I can close that. I just need to be able to stop the water somehow from the skimmer.

Thanks

[bdavis]

Get a skimmer Gizzmo to close off water from there. http://www.pools.com/catalog/above_ground_pool_accessories-850-14290.html Get a plug for the return. Standard winterizing stuff you could have already.

Which Hayward filter did you decide on?

Cheers

[MaxxFusion]

Thanks. I ended up going with the Hayward S210T.

[MaxxFusion]

I finally got my sand filter piped in last weekend. Its been running for about 2 weeks now and I coulnt be happier. I have yet to put any de in the filter but still planning to do so. When taking apart my cartridge filter I couldnt believe how dirty it was with pollen. My water actually seems clearer. Maybe its just my imagination but thats ok.

Thanks to everyone.

[CarlD]

I finally got my sand filter piped in last weekend. Its been running for about 2 weeks now and I coulnt be happier. I have yet to put any de in the filter but still planning to do so. When taking apart my cartridge filter I couldnt believe how dirty it was with pollen. My water actually seems clearer. Maybe its just my imagination but thats ok.

Thanks to everyone.

I have that filter as well--6 years now. The only things I've done is lube the spider gasket, replace the gauge, and this year, replace the drain cap.

I haven't been using the DE much as I have been using the skimmer socks and running my Blue Diamond once a week so my water has been super-clear--and I've been lazy about it.

[tonyl]

I've found that a sand filter does a better job filtering if left "a little" dirty; sort of like adding DE which also coats the sand and raises the pressure. I've had good luck by backwashing about 10-15 seconds which removes most of the buildup and leaves me with a few psi over "totally clean". The improvement in clarity as viewed with goggles or with the light on at night is obvious. Not to mention saving some water.

Hope this helps, Tony

[CarlD]

I've found that a sand filter does a better job filtering if left "a little" dirty; sort of like adding DE which also coats the sand and raises the pressure. I've had good luck by backwashing about 10-15 seconds which removes most of the buildup and leaves me with a few psi over "totally clean". The improvement in clarity as viewed with goggles or with the light on at night is obvious. Not to mention saving some water.

Hope this helps, Tony

Now THIS is a cool idea worth trying! If it doesn't work, just backwash normally! I like it! I'm trying it next backwash!

What I REALLY like is the fail-safe--I can backwash completely.