Help with stain removal and metal free

[webfeet]

I added a quart of Polyquat 60 yesterday and my numbers were:
CYA 35-40
FC was 5
Ph 8
TA 140

Today's numbers were as follows before -the Ascorbic acid and Jacks metal free
CYA 35-40
FC 3-4
Ph 8
Ta 100

I think I messed up. I used 4.5 lbs ascorbic acid to 26,000 gl vinyl liner pool to remove stains. My water was going through the sand filter the entire time. I had asked DH to put on circulate only, and he misunderstood. About an hour, the stains were gone. Then we realized that the filter was running, so we backwashed the sand.

Then we added about 2 quarts of Jacks' Metal Free with water again running through the filter.(?) Double dumb? Anyway. about an hour later I have no fc and cannot get enough Dpd powder in the vial to turn the sample pink.:eek: The ph came down to 7.3.

My stains are gone! Doesnt the Jacks Metal Free sequester the loose particles? Will they get caught in the filter then? Do I need to add any other sequestering agent, if so what? Do I need to change from filter to circulate only?

Thanks for your help!

[aylad]

If your stains are gone, then I think you're fine....according to Marie's ascorbic acid treatment sticky (at the top of this forum), once you add the sequestering agent you're supposed to turn the pump back to filter anyway. The purpose of the sequestering agent is to keep the "stain" in the pool water rather than deposited on your pool surfaces, and will need to be re-added occasionally. Marie's sticky indicates that the chlorine is depleted while this is in progress, and describes how you need to handle the chlorine and pH.

Janet

[webfeet]

Thanks Janet. The pool looks great- the water is clear. I am ready to start raising the chlorine. The ph is 7.2. I have a salt water generator. Should I used plain Bleach from a bottle to slowly raise the chlorine? I hope Marie sees this thread, because I know she can tell me how fast and how to bring it up. I would also like to use Jack's metal magic, if it will change the metals into salts or whatever that can be filtered out. Will it help filter the metals out? What about flocculants or clarifiers? Thanks, Web

[aylad]

Having never had the problem with stains, I don't know the best answer to how fast to bring up the chlorine, but I would just say to do it gradually while keeping an eye on the pool and stopping if you see stains beginning to form.

As for the metal magic, it doesn't change the metals into salts, it just keeps them sequestered in the water so they don't deposit on your pool. Flocculants are usually used to gather small particles that are floating around in your water and make them stick together to make it easier to vacuum them out....but they are not going to change your metals situation. Unfortunately the only reliable way to remove the metals from your water is to replace your water.

Janet

[Watermom]

I sent a message to Marie asking her to take a look at this thread. Hopefully she is still around the forum and will be able to help.

[mbar]

hi, sorry I was away and just got back. You are doing everything right. The whole idea is to get the chlorine up slowly while keeping the ph low. Try to keep the ph at about 7.2 and no higher than 7.4. High chlorine with high ph reacts and drops the metals out of solution to stain the surface of the pool. You do have to be careful of getting any algae, so it is a good idea to put in a polyquat 60 algacide. I would use bleach to raise the chlorine -raise the chlorine slowly, by taking it up 1 at a time. Start by getting it up to 3 and keeping it there, keeping your eye out for stains. As long as you have sequestering agent in the water, and the ph is low, you shouldn't get any stains. If you see the stains returning take the ph lower and add more sequesterant. You don't need anything else in the water. All of the metal sequesterers are basically the same - just not the really cheap ones. Let me know if you have any other questions:)

[webfeet]

Thanks Marie for your input. I used all my Jacks Metal Free when I first put it in. So I went to the local pool store and bought a product made by haviland called Metal Wizard that claims to sequester and remove the metals through the filter. I put about 1/2 half a quart in.

I am having trouble getting the chlorine level to hold. Ph is about 7.1 or 7.2. Should I raise the chlorine level up each day to the level suggested by Ben's best guess chart?

Also, will the ascorbic acid remove any type stain or just metal stains and will the sequester move other particles or just metals?

Finally, is it okay to put the solar cover on now?

Thanks, Jan

[mbar]

Most of the metal sequesters say that they remove metals, but they don't. They are all basically the same, and metals get in the water some way, and stay there unless you can pinpoint how they got there, and refill with water you know doesn't have any metals. I think it is easier to just use the sequestering agent, and keep the ph on the low side. Keeping your chlorine up everyday so you don't have to shock is really the best thing. You can start to bring your chlorine up slowly. It sometimes takes a long time to hold chlorine, because the chlorine is busy eating up the ascorbic acid that is left in the pool. Once all of the ascorbic acid is gone, the water will hold the chlorine again. So you just have to test often and bring it back to you minimum according to the best guess chart. Once the chlorine is holding, you can go back to keeping it at the regular levels that you do. Just be sure that when you get a lot of rain, or fill water, you add more sequestering agent. Also, if you see some stain coming back, you know it's time to add more sequestering agent. The sequestering agent also brings ph down, so you have to monitor the ph often. You can notice that if the ph is high, your stains come back easily. I always keep mine no higher than 7.4. Ascorbic acid will only remove metal stains. Sequestering agent will only sequester the metals. You can put the solar cover on - but make sure you keep an eye out for algae - put in an algaecide, because you don't want to have to shock the pool right after a metal treatment, the stains will return. Hope this helps.

[webfeet]

I put in a quart of polyqouat 60 about 5 or 6 days ago. Do I need to add some more? Any opinion on the solar cover? Thanks

[mbar]

sorry, I missed that you added poly in the first post:o You don't need to add anymore. It is just as a precaution for when the chlorine goes to 0 while doing the stain treatment. How does the pool look?

[webfeet]

The pool looks great. But I can't keep the chlorine level up yet. Is this normal? Ph is about 7. do I need to raise it? Thanks

[mbar]

Yes, sometimes it can take a week or more to get the water to hold chlorine. Leave the ph at 7 while you continue to add chlorine. Just keep checking it and add more chlorine to bring it up each time. As soon as all of the ascorbic acid is gone, the water will start to hold chlorine. It's good to keep the ph low while adding chlorine so that you won't get any stain. Once the water holds chlorine you can let the ph get a little higher. Just remember that if the stain starts to come back, take the ph back down and add more sequestering agent.:)

[webfeet]

I've been ill and the pool has been neglected. I have had a solar cover on it about a month. I kept the pump on low or off most of the time- to aid raising the temperature. The temp is 87 and its wonderful, but the stains are back worse than before. The white parts of the pool-steps, returns, drain, etc. are rusty colored. Should I have been adding a routine dose of sequestering agent? Do I just start all over with the treatment to remove it? If I put in ascorbic acid without a sequestering agent, won't the stains come right back again? I thought they were metal stains, but could they be something else? Thanks for your help again.
Ph 7.0
FC 2.
CC.0
cya 10 (?)

[mbar]

I hope you are feeling better:) You can try adding a sequestering agent first with your ph at 7 - no higher. This may lighten the stains. Your chlorine is too low, and I don't know how you are keeping chlorine in on a sunny day with a cya of 10- are you sure of these numbers? The metal out (sequestering agent) along with the low ph may lift the stains off. I wouldn't do the stain treatment again until you add the metal out and keep the pump running for a few days to see if the stain start to lighten up. If they don't - then the ascorbic acid treatment will be needed again. You always have to make sure you use a metal out (sequestering agent) when you do the stain treatment. If you don't the stains will come back as soon as you shock and have a ph over 7.5. If you have a lot of metals in your fill water, then you have to add sequestering agent on a regular basis. Feel free to ask any other questions you may have.