Cloudy Water - I think

[Skillset]

Hi All,

My opinion is that. my water is cloudy. I don't remember it being this way at the beginning of the season (it's my first full season as a pool owner). I was wondering if some of you could comment regarding underwater clarity with their own pools. My pool is 33 feet long. From underwater, I can see my return jets up to about 25'. But, it is "cloudy." Any further than 25', I can't see them. I think I recall seeing them crystal clear from any point in the pool. And, I think the problem is getting worse over the past few weeks. From outside the pool, the water looks fairly clear. You can see anywhere in the pool with no issues - including the bottom. So, most people think I'm crazy!! When I'm in the water, I can see a digital watch that is lying on the bottom at my deepest point (5' 10") - so depth is not my issue.

About the pool: 16x33 fiberglass. Started BBB in June - and have been pretty dilligent keeping the water in balance. Current reading:

Cl: 6
CC: 0
CA: 60
Ph: 7.2
CYA: 65
Alk: 90
Borates: 50

Have not shocked since July - it was my only time this season I shocked. I've been keeping the Cl between 5 and 10 according to Best Guess. The pool is not consuming Cl out of the ordinary. On sunny days, it'll go through 2-2.5. On cloudy or rainy days, it barely uses Cl. So, I'm not sure if shocking will help. I know the last time I shocked, the Cl took a lot of days to return to normal. So, with less than 4 weeks left in the swim season, not sure if I want to shock.

What else went in the pool? Lots of Borax when I was using pucks - probably about 8-10 boxes. Since on BBB and having more borates, the Ph stays pretty steady and I have not added borax in about 2 months. I have used about 4 quarts of Metal Magic throughout the season to get rid of staining. Last use was about 3 weeks ago. Could this be causing cloudiness?

In reading the forum, I understand that cloudiness can be caused by higher Ph or high Calcium, neither of which I have. Also, since my Cl levels are easy to maintain, I'm not thinking Cl will fix the issue.

Pump runs 8 hours a day in 2 shifts.

Thoughts out there? Also - again would like to get a poll out there how clear can folks see underwater in their pool (width not depth).

Thanks !!

[waste]

Off the bat, all I can think of is that you've got some algae trying to form. I know you've got 6 ppm cl and no cc, but something may have gotten into the water that is causing a 'higher than normal' demand. With all your other numbers being good, I think a little bleach may clear up the water. We are still on the 'upside' of learning when and how algae blooms in otherwise perfect water, but it seems to happen from time to time:confused:

[mbar]

I agree with Waste. Another thing that may be causing the slight cloudiness is the sequestering agent. You may need to shock the pool to get rid of the excess. It is only an opinion I have, and I don't know the science:( , but my experience is the same as yours - so I know exactly what you mean. My family think I am nuts too when I say the water isn't "sparkly" clear:eek: , but I know how I like it;) . What I did when the water got like that is to shock, and add a little acid to take the ph down to 7. Don't add any clarifier - I did that the first time, and it didn't help. The acid and shock seemed to do the trick. It took about a day for it to "sparkle" again. I don't know if it was that there was some algae, but my tests were the same as yours - no excess use of chlorine, and chlorine at a proper level at all times. So I don't know if it was the sequestering agent - because it did happen a couple of days after the sequestering agent went in, or if there was some algae forming. I just know that the water cleared up with some muriatic acid and taking the chlorine up to shock. Hope this helps, and I would be interested to see how your pool water turns out if you try this:)

[aylad]

I know the last time I shocked, the Cl took a lot of days to return to normal.

The last time you shocked it, how high did you take the chlorine level? And how many days did it take to get back to normal?

Cloudiness, especially suddenly onset without something being added to the pool, is usually a sign of a bloom trying to happen. I would definitely shock it, and perhaps extend your filter run time.

Janet

[Skillset]

Thanks for all the suggestions! I guess I should have known that the suggestions would come back to Cl!! Okay - tonight, I added some bleach and CalHypo (trying to get rid it now that I just use Bleach and I don't have a calcium issue). Pool is up to 25 now. And, running pump continuously. I know I won't be swimming for at least a week now, but I can't stand semi-cloudy water.

Marie - The problem with shocking is the darn staining. I know the higher Cl will bring out the stains again. And, if it's the Metal Magic causing the excess cloudiness, I'll be in a vicious cycle if I add more MM!! I like the MM because it is so effective, but if it's going to cloud the water, maybe I should try a different brand.

Janet - Last time I shocked was in July. Took it to 22. Took about 6 days or so to get back to 10, if I recall.

Two other noteworthy things I didn't mention. The pool has been about 89-90 the past few weeks. And, I use a solar cover at all times when not in use. However, the pool is used almost everyday, so it is never covered for a prolonged period of time.

Ok - we'll see how the shock goes, but I'm afraid the big test is when I'm underwater, so I don't think that will be for a few days.

The pool also needs some water, so I'm going to do that tonight so the fresh water also gets shocked.

Will keep everyone posted.

[mbar]

Just make sure that the ph is down at about 7 when you shock. If you see any stains forming - add more metal magic. I know that you don't want the water to cloud - but when it clears, which shouldn't take more than a day or two, then there won't be any stains, I know it's a real pain:rolleyes: You may be surprised not to get any staining this time - let me know. I was surprised this year after using the metal magic not to get any staining when I took the chlorine up to 20:) Please let me know how you do.

[Skillset]

Wanted to post some results.

Well, the pool is back to being crystal clear. I wasn't crazy, after all. You can now see the return jets the entire length of the pool.

Shocking was a bit interesting, though. For the first 2 nights, the Cl level dropped by 3 each night (to slightly below shock level of 20), which I was surprised, since I wasn't losing that much previously to shocking. So, each day I added bleach to get above shock level. By the 3rd night, the Cl held, and it also held the entire day (pool was covered and it was a cloudy day). I really couldn't test if the water was cured, though. SInce, right after that, we had a series of lousy, rainy, weather. So, it took about 10 days after that to get down to 10, where you can swim again. But, the results were great, as far as water clarty. So, something must have been in the water.

Now for the not great results. As predicted, my pool is pretty stained. Again, I notice it big time, although from the outside, it is not too noticable. But, it's never been this bad. Not very asthetic.

Marie - I'm closing on October 6, so I was going to just leave the stains, since I know when I open, I'll need to bring up the Cl levels high again, which risks stains. I could treat it with Metal Magic before closing, but why waste $16, is my thinking, unless you think it's better to close with a stain-free pool. Although, when it closes, I'm sure the winterizing chemicals may take the Cl up. Thoughts?

[mbar]

I would not add any Metal Magic now. I have already closed with stains, and they were gone by the time I opened in the spring:) I guess it's that the ph ususally goes down, and the clorine is gone too. I always add the sequestering agent before I add the chlorine in the spring. I do usually have to do a stain treatment at the beginning of the year after shocking upon opening. This year I am going to try to add a double dose of Metal Magic, and see what happens. I will keep you posted, and I hope you let me know how your pool is when you open next spring. We an all learn by sharing our experiences:)

[Skillset]

Just to confirm what you do in the spring: Upon opening, you shock. Wait until pool is back to normal Cl. Then add MM?

I was confused because you said: "I always add the sequestering agent BEFORE I add the chlorine" but then you said "I usually have to do a stain treatment at the beginning of the year AFTER shocking upon opening."

Ok - so I'll leave the pool to a light brown tint for the winter.

You know, I don't really think the MM works as it says it does. I think it sequesters the metals, not binds to them and then you can vacuum them up. Seems like the MM lasts for a few weeks then I'm back to staining. I did not have to fill the pool once this season, so I kind of doubt I'm getting a continous supply of metal in the water. At some point, the MM must get used up or dissipates causing the original metal to fall out. My theory.

Anyway, I think the best bet is to get my CYA down so I don't have to keep the Cl between 5 and 10. But, it just does not seem to want to go away. Maybe I'll do a partial drain next season and see if I have better luck with the stains at a lower Cl (and lower CYA).

[mbar]

I usually add the metal magic before shocking - but sometimes I get stains anyway. That's why I think I will add double the dose this year. The sequesterant does get broken down by the chlorine over time - that's why you have to add a maintanence dose every week, or every other week. I did add it this year and didn't have stains. One year I tried the cya very low - 30, and had more problems with stains than I did last year when I kept the cya at 50. This year I had my cya between 50 and 70, and had no returning stains after the initial ascorbic acid treatment in the spring. I have not had any stains taking the chlorine up to 25 :eek: So I am still trying to find the best way to control the stains. This was the best year ever. I did have my calcium level at 150, and I did use the Metal Magic more often - adding some everytime I added water or had rain. The only thing I can do is to try to kkeep the same chemistry next year and see if it works again, then I will know the things I tried do work. I have tried many different permutations of chemistry over the last 6 years, so if you have any questions you want to ask, just let me know and I will tell you if I tried it, and if it worked - If you do the same we can learn from each other, and will be better able to help anyone else that has a fiberglass pool. One thing that I did notice is that after I did the ascorbic acid treatment, and added more Metal Magic than I had to, the water got cloudy. After the water cleared (there was a lot of chalky substance on the floor of the pool) I didn't seem to get any staining even if the chlorine went high. So a question I have for you is did your water cloud at all? It is just a theory that I have that maybe the stuff falling out with the calcium carbonate gets rid of the metals:confused: I am not sure, but I will keep trying to figure out the best way to keep a stain free pool:) thanks for keeping me informed!

[Skillset]

Do you think having calcium higher helps?

Did you use the recommended maintenance dose of MM? I did not use any maintenance dose this season. But, since you have the CYA up higher, seems like the maintenance does help. So, I'll try that next season and see how it goes. Or, do you think the non-returning stains were a result of using acid at the beginning of the season? These FG pools are a bit of pain with staining - only drawback though.

Regarding the cloudiness - this was the only time I got it. It might have been coincidental with the use of MM (It started to cloud up about a week after), but the cloudiness was getting worse over the weeks, so maybe it wasn't the MM. But, as stated below, the high Cl returned the pool now to crystal clear. But, lots of stains.

Hey - you were going to see if you could get me the name of the stuff I could use to fill my small chip at the bottom (without emptying). Thankfully, it has not gotten any bigger, so I'm not at all worried at this point.

Anyway, I enjoyed the hot humid day yesterday in the pool. Counting down to closing on the 6th.:(