Dual Speed Pump Question

[SLS]

I am thinking about replacing my broken pump with a 1HP dual speed Hayward Super Pump. Does anyone know if it will be able to push (not pull) the water up 8' in low speed? Can you still have the filter in the filter mode on low speed? Will my in-line automatic puck chlorinator still work on low speed?

I run my pump 24/7 from the time I open in the spring to the time I close it in the fall because I am gone alot. It just keeps it cleaner that way. I am hoping low speed will help the electric bill.

Also, will I have any trouble with the 1hp super pump being too big for (1) 1 1/2" dia. skimmer intake and (1) 1 1/2" dia. return? I plan on remodeling my pool next year and I will be installing another skimmer and return so I like to get a big enough filter and pump now. My pool is a 20 x 40 / 32,000 gallon vinyl inground pool.

BTW, after the remodel I will not have to push the water up 8'.....another story!!

[duraleigh]

I am thinking about replacing my broken pump with a 1HP dual speed Hayward Super Pump. Does anyone know if it will be able to push (not pull) the water up 8' in low speed?
Yes...it is a closed loop not open to atmospheric pressure so you could put the pump 80' on the top or bottom of the loop...no difference.


Can you still have the filter in the filter mode on low speed? Will my in-line automatic puck chlorinator still work on low speed?
1. Yes 2. Slowly...although most of us here don't like in-line chlorinators:)



Also, will I have any trouble with the 1hp super pump being too big for (1) 1 1/2" dia. skimmer intake and (1) 1 1/2" dia. return?
Wow! That's not nearly enough pipe, skimmers, or returns for that size pool. I see why you're remodeling.

I'd probably get the same pump and live with it for a year, tho. The problem you may have is not being able to stay on "low" 24/7 because you won't turn your water as often as you should. :) :)

[SLS]

Thanks for the response!!

The pool actually stays clear but it will be nice to have another skimmer and return!!

[Waterworks]

Pool pumps, or pumps in general, can't pull or push an unlimited amount of water.
The Hayward Super Pump 1HP can prime itself from 8' above water or push water 65' up. On low speed the pump could push approximately 15-20 feet in the air.
In the middle of this page : http://haywardcanada.com/products/pid_10.html , it says, "Self-priming (suction lift up to 8’ above water level)"
And on the same page it says that the pump has 0 GPM flow above 65ft of head.
You will be able to run your sand filter, but probably won't be able to backwash properly.
You'll probably get approximately 30 GPM on Low speed, which will turn over 43,200 gallons of water per day.

Brad
www.waterworkspools.com

[mas985]

One thing to remember is that once the pump is primed, static head is no longer an issue. Only dynamic head will determine the flow. After prime, the 8 ft rise is balanced by an 8' drop on the other side of the pump.

If you have a 2 speed controller, then normally it sets the pump to run at full speed at start up and then after 3 min, it drops the speed to low speed.

[CarlD]

I think you'll love the 2 speed 1 hp SuperPump--I do. I have a skimmer and low drain, a return and a solar deck, about 20,000 gals. All 1.5" piping. I run on low all the time with no problem--be sure to have at least a 200# sand filter--the Hayward t210 is a good match.

Just flip to full speed to backwash or vacuum.

It will take almost twice as long to turn over your water as it does at high speed--and will cost 1/3 as much per turnover. Also low is SO quiet you can barely hear it.

[SLS]

Thanks everyone for your responses.

I may have messed up today. I ordered a UR 2 speed 1 hp WFDS-24 Whisperflo instead of the Superpump because they had it in stock and I could have it by Friday. I normally don't get a hurry about these kinds of decisions but I wanted to work on it this weekend.

Now my new questions:

Is the Whisperflo a decent model?

They convinced me it is much quieter than the Super Pump. Do you think that is correct?

I noticed the web says it is a 150V instead of 220V. Can that be right?

It also has 2" intake and outflow. I guess I can buy reducers to go back to 1 1/2" with little problems?

If I stay with 1 1/2" pipes throughout the max flow is 42 to 44 gpm so I don't really have to worry about too much flow to the filter right? I believe my current filter is 62gpm max. The tag is so old I can barely read it.

I hope I don't kick myself for this one!!!!

[CarlD]

I suspect the "UR" means up-rated for 1hp. If so, it is not as powerful as the Superpump, which is full-rated for 1hp. So it's not a comparable pump, it's a smaller, less powerful one. Which is why it's quieter (but only on full speed--on low, the S/P barely hums so quieter than that is meaningless.).

That doesn't mean it's bad--42-44 gpm may do nicely. Will it lift the water as high as you need? I don't know. The folks who understand feet of head may have a better feel.

I'm not an electrician, but I believe that 220/240v pumps are more efficient--electrical-usage-wise. 150V must mean 115 or 120v.

Basically, the Whisperflow is what is described as an Above Ground pump, but the SuperFlow is DEFINITELY an In Ground class pump.

Here's how I have mine hooked up. It's just sitting on the paver:
http://home.earthlink.net/~dashmanc/pool/Filter05.jpg

[duraleigh]

SLS,

I'm gonna' address two issues you brought up.

150v vs. 220v??? Oops!! :) :)

Now, the real reason for my post.....

If I stay with 1 1/2" pipes throughout the max flow is 42 to 44 gpm so I don't really have to worry about too much flow to the filter right?
I have seen this several times on the old forum (R.I.P.) as well and I can't understand the reasoning. If the pressure is high enough, you could get water through the pipe until the sidewalls melted from the friction!! Exponentially greater than 44gpm, IMHO.

Of course pool pumps can't produce that much but I'm illustrating a point (I think!! Am I missing something?)

So, I don't mean to hijack your post but I don't think you can count on 1.5" pipe being the limiting factor in gpm. :)

[Waterworks]

The reason for the 45 GPM rating for 1.5" pipe is the velocity of the water. It is preferred to have your water moving at 8' per second or less. In 1.5" pipe 45 GPM of water moves just under 8' per second. At faster speeds the friction loss per foot of pipe increases at a faster rate, so pumps operate more efficiently under 8' per second. And also, the friction loss is so great that normally the head will increase by enough that the flow will be reduced to approximately 45 gpm.

The Whisperflo is a better pump the Hayward Super pump. It also pumps more water when comparing HP to HP. The 3/4 HP Whisperflo pumps 70 GPM @ 50' of head. The 1 HP Super pump pushes 50 GPM @ 50' of head. The Whisperflo is quieter on high speed and I've always found it to be a more heavy-duty pump. The Whisperflo is meant to compete with the Hayward Northstar and the Pentair Super Flo is meant to compete with a Super Pump.

Brad

[duraleigh]

Hi, Brad,

That makes sense. It seems to be a point where the pump people have decided it's not really worth it to push more water thru because the friction loss increases exponentially.

To me, it still means you could (If you were really dumb) put a 3hp pump on a 1.5 inch line and get far more than 45gpm......however, your electric bill would be larger than your house payment. :) :)

[CarlD]

The Whisperflo is a better pump the Hayward Super pump. It also pumps more water when comparing HP to HP. The 3/4 HP Whisperflo pumps 70 GPM @ 50' of head. The 1 HP Super pump pushes 50 GPM @ 50' of head. The Whisperflo is quieter on high speed and I've always found it to be a more heavy-duty pump. The Whisperflo is meant to compete with the Hayward Northstar and the Pentair Super Flo is meant to compete with a Super Pump.

Brad

So you may WELL have made a good deal--in which case, be happy!

[SLS]

I am feeling much better about my purchase now!!! Hopefully I won't have trouble wiring it up!!!! I can't wait to get the pool up and running again. I just hate seeing the big black tarp!!!!!