Am I on the right track?

[Sam_I_am]

Hi

Back after a year or two away - everything was good but not so good now.

I have an in-ground vinyl pool apx. 14,000 gallons in volume.

I test the water myself but also take a sample in to the local pool store when I run in to some problems. I am in that situation right now.

My tests indicate my pool vitals are all good... however, I am struggling with some persistent lime green water.

Yesterday's Store Test Readings
TDS: 400
Stabilizer: 20
FC: 1.5
pH: 7.5
T.A: 95
C.H: 160

The store prescribed I increase the TA (which I did with Baking Soda), decrease pH (I didn't), add stabilizer (which I did), Shock with 2 bags of Burn-Out (which I did) then add 1/2 quart liquid algicide (which I did).

After following that prescription the pool looks exactly the same, lime green water. Back to the pool store for a new reading:

Today's Test Readings
TDS: 600
Stabilizer: 30
FC: 5
pH: 7.8
T.A: 135
C.H: 160

So today the pool store said 2 bags Shock again, and another 1/2 quart of liquid algicide.

I said forget that... I'm going back to bleach.

After reading and refamiliarizing myself much of what these forums say... I have added sufficient bleach to get my chemistry up to 15 ppm - I hope (as my test kit doesn't show anything beyond 3ppm). I used what seems to be a very good online pool calculator (http://www.poolcalculator.com/) to calculate how much bleach I needed to add.

I have thoroughly brush my pool and intent on adding more bleach as needed (although it is kinda tricky to figure out my FC beyond my test kit - I actually bought some quick test strips that show if my FC is around 10 so hopefully that will help).

I figure I will continue to monitor throughout the day and evening... add bleach when I think it might be due and continue to brush periodically as I see algae settle.

Does all of this sound REASONABLE?

I appreciate any feedback you can provide.
Thanks in advance.

Dave

[AnnaK]

It sounds reasonable to me.

My test kit doesn't measure FC over 5 ppm but I have a CYA kit which gives me a good idea of stabilizer values. I've never had to actually shock my water but if I did, I'd trust the poolcalculator for amounts to add given the CYA values.

Test 3 times daily (if you have the opportunity) and keep adjusting FC with bleach additions. If you can see algae debris drop to the bottom after brushing, then vacuum. If you have plenty of water, vacuum to waste. If you don't, use skimmer socks so the solids are caught in there rather than in your filter medium.

Once your water is clear for 24 hrs, backwash the filter.

That's how I would approach it, anyway.

Anna

[chemicalbalance]

Sounds like you are the right track. Here are a couple of thoughts.


1. Add 1/2 quart of Polyquat 60 algaecide if you think you still have algae growing. The stuff costs about $20 per quart, but it is great at killing algae. Once you add that stuff the algae will be dead.

2. You may have bacteria consuming your chlorine - likely not - but keep adding chlorine bleach at night to achieve 10 ppm for a few nights in a row. I'd guess a full 1.5 gal jug would be enough with a 14,000 gallon pool.

3. MOST IMPORTANTLY. Let your pump run 24 hours per day till this clears up. Change your filter (DE, sand, etc. not sure what you have). You have probably killed the algae but now you have dead algae floating around the pool. In my experience it may take you a week for this to clear up. You will have to change your filter again at the end of the process. To speed up the process, you may want to add some liquid floculent (a polymer chemical that makes particles cling together). Liquid floc is available at Lowes or Home Depot. This is not necessary, but will speed up the process somewhat. If you buy some, get the most plain jane product. Nothing fancy.

4. Sounds like your numbers were pretty good when you started. The pool store was just monkeying with your water for the hell of it. I used to have problems with algae blooms about twice per year. I discovered that I was not religiously adding enough bleach. I now add my bleach every evening at sunset. Since I have religiously added my bleach every day, my water has been beautiful sparkling clear and I have not had even a hint of algae. Make sure you add your bleach at night since the sun burns it out.

[aylad]

I personally would stay away from the pool store--the poster before me was right in that they're just selling you stuff you don't need.....the definition of "pool stored"!

Your plan of attack is a good one, but let me throw in a couple more things for you to consider...

First, be aware that when you add the polyquat, it will significantly drop your chlorine level, so make sure you get that back up immediately. I personally would skip the polyquat and spend that money on bleach. Secondly, you don't give a combined or total chlorine reading--so algae may or may not be the only thing that's consuming your chorine. A combined or total chlorine reading would be helpful in getting the overall picture. Also, is there a possibility that copper has somehow been added to your water? Have you used WalMart trichlor, or maybe added any type of algaecide containing copper?

Keep your chlorine up into the 15-20 range, keep your filter running, and brush it daily...it'll clear up, as long as the problem isn't metal related.

And welcome back to the forum! :)

Janet

[doggie]

My tests indicate my pool vitals are all good... however, I am struggling with some persistent lime green (as my test kit doesn't show anything beyond 3ppm).

I figure I will continue to monitor throughout the day and evening... add bleach when I think it might be due and continue to brush periodically as I see algae settle.

Does all of this sound REASONABLE?

I appreciate any feedback you can provide.
Thanks in advance.

Dave

Please, get a good test kit and stop using the strips. You can't "contine to monitor" using strips.

When you have the proper tests, post your complete numbers and you will get the help you need. :)

[Sam_I_am]

Thanks everyone for you comments... they have been encouraging and helpful (except for Doggie's)

I did post the numbers that I have... taken from my Test kit and corraborated with the pool stores testing - not the kind of numbers strips provide.

As I explained, unfortunately, my test kit only shows Chlorine to 3ppm... I have tried the shot glass technique and that was somewhat useful, but still not accurate - nor able to show me beyond 6 ppm. Yes I bought some strips as a quick and dirty way to monitor my chlorine cause it shows me up to 10 ppm.

The pool store in my community doesn't carry a kit that shows the difference between free and total chlorine (nor anything above 3 ppm). When the pool store tests my water... the test always indicates that the Free & Total Chlorine is the same (so I am suspect of these numbers).

There is a possibility that there is copper in my water as I have used an Algicide that is composed of Elemental Copper... however, the pool store readings show no copper in my water.

This is the end of day two with the Bleach at 15 ppm (or above) and my water is much less green now... I'd almost go as far as to say it is bluish... however it is very cloudy blue - but that is progress I believe.

[doggie]

Thanks everyone for you comments... they have been encouraging and helpful (except for Doggie's)

I did post the numbers that I have... taken from my Test kit and corraborated with the pool stores testing - not the kind of numbers strips provide.

As I explained, unfortunately, my test kit only shows Chlorine to 3ppm... I have tried the shot glass technique and that was somewhat useful, but still not accurate - nor able to show me beyond 6 ppm. Yes I bought some strips as a quick and dirty way to monitor my chlorine cause it shows me up to 10 ppm.

The pool store in my community doesn't carry a kit that shows the difference between free and total chlorine (nor anything above 3 ppm). When the pool store tests my water... the test always indicates that the Free & Total Chlorine is the same (so I am suspect of these numbers).

There is a possibility that there is copper in my water as I have used an Algicide that is composed of Elemental Copper... however, the pool store readings show no copper in my water.

This is the end of day two with the Bleach at 15 ppm (or above) and my water is much less green now... I'd almost go as far as to say it is bluish... however it is very cloudy blue - but that is progress I believe.

Sorry, I wasn't trying to be anything but helpful. And I still suggest getting a good test. One that only tests up to 3ppm isn't the best to use.

[CarlD]

While Doggie's comments are discouraging they are bang-on correct.

You have a problem and you are trying to get by using minimal testing tools, then relying on the pool store to find any problems. What THEY do is figure out what they can sell you. We always recommend that every pool owner get a good FAS-DPD based test kit (this means the chlorine test is FAS-DPD--the best. It measure Free Chlorine up to 50ppm, Combined Chloramines to 50ppm, and is the most accurate). They run from $50 to $80 depending on where you buy them (on-line is really the only option) and are worth every nickel. They are not an extravagence, they are critical to caring for your pool.

Other than that, Aylad's comments are what you should follow.

You MAY want to invest in a copper test kit--they are about $20 ro $30 from Leslies, but they will ENSURE whether you have excess copper in your water. At that point, we'll ask our metals specialist, Marie, to help you.

[Spensar]

The other thing, in the absence of your own kit, is get the pool store numbers for combined, total chlorine, and leave without buying anything more. They will give their recs, listen and say "thanks". If they are pushy say you have what you need at home.

[doggie]

I remember the first time we went to the pool store for water testing. This was a few years ago. We handed her our jar of water, and she simply stuck a test strip in, looked at it, then said 'your numbers are fine' !! I couldn't believe it!

The other pool place here in town did it with a test strip, then used some computer program to analize. When our alk was high, the program suggested adding 15+ gallons of muriatic acid! I didn't do that needless to say.

[aylad]

This is the end of day two with the Bleach at 15 ppm (or above) and my water is much less green now... I'd almost go as far as to say it is bluish... however it is very cloudy blue - but that is progress I believe.


If you're going from green to cloudy blue, that is great progress...keep the chlorine at 15 and keep your filter running....the cloudiness is dead algae that the filter will have to eliminate.

I would not put any more copper-based algaecide in the pool...once the copper gets to a certain level, if you don't keep the pH and alk low, it will start staining your pool, and from there pool care gets quit a bit more difficult. CarlD is right--at that point, Marie is the one who will need to help you since she's our resident expert at staining.

Janet

[doggie]

We used to speed up the clearing proccess by using a flocculant. When you are sure you have the algae dead, you might want to try it.

We never had the patience to wait for the filter to clear it up and that helped it along. :)

[Sam_I_am]

Thank you everyone again for your assistance.

I just vacuumed the pool and backwashed. It actually looks more cloudy now... and am thinking that the filter is struggling a bit with clearing up the dead algae.

I may take your suggestion Doggie (thank you) and add a floc - I have used them periodically in the past with mixed results... but it may in fact help the process (perhaps I'll buy a skimmer basket sock as well?). Does anyone recommend a specific Floc. I have seen the granular type you pour into your skimmer, the puck type that sit in your skimmer, and also the blue liquid (polysheen or something).

Any recommendations?

As for a good test kit... this has been somewhat difficult for me, because I live in Canada, most online companies will not ship to Canada. So getting a quality test kit in a timely fashion has proven to be difficult.

I am currently looking at purchasing one through Waterwarehouse (but I'll have to have it delivered to my mailbox south of the border) then bring it accross the line. I'm considering duraleigh's Troublefreepool.com site as it looks like they have a good kit for sale.

Any comments about kits and where I could purchase one (I'm particularly interested in one that shows free and complete chlorine and up to 50 ppm.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.


Dave

[doggie]

The floc we use is this: http://outdoor-living.hardwarestore.com/57-240-chemicals/drop-and-vac-pool-flocculent-656270.aspx

Being in Canada, I have no idea if you can get it there. But it's most def a liquid treatment. It's worked very well for us when we used it in the past.

Sorry to hear it's such a pain to get stuff delivered to you there! I hope you find the things you are looking for. :)

edit: I'm sure you know this already, but be sure to vac to waste if you use the floc treatment

[jhm]

Here's who Taylor says to contact for Canada:

For all Canadian orders, contact Lowry & Associates in Newmarket, Ontario:
905-836-0505 (voice)
905-895-4539 (fax)
mlowry@lowryassociates.ca

I'm not sure the right Taylor test kit (I still have Ben's), but they'll have what you need.

What others have said is right though. You need to sustain the high levels to effectively kill off the algae and you can't judge 15ppm by the seat of your pants.

Jim

[aylad]

Here's who Taylor says to contact for Canada:

For all Canadian orders, contact Lowry & Associates in Newmarket, Ontario:
905-836-0505 (voice)
905-895-4539 (fax)
mlowry@lowryassociates.ca

I'm not sure the right Taylor test kit (I still have Ben's), but they'll have what you need.



I believe the Taylor K-2006 is the rough equivalent to Ben's kit. The kit they're selling at Troublefreepools is designed almost exactly like Ben's kit.

Janet

[CarlD]

I may take your suggestion Doggie (thank you) and add a floc - I have used them periodically in the past with mixed results... but it may in fact help the process (perhaps I'll buy a skimmer basket sock as well?). Does anyone recommend a specific Floc. I have seen the granular type you pour into your skimmer, the puck type that sit in your skimmer, and also the blue liquid (polysheen or something).

Any recommendations?


Dave

Yes. The ONLY flocculant you should use or need is the same as the only algaecide you should use: Polyquat 60%. It's an excellant floc--and it comes in the same bottle as your algaecide.

Otherwise you should NOT be adding chemicals like flocs, clarifiers, algaecides, phosphate removers and all the other GARBAGE pool stores sell you. It's mostly like using an air freshener on a garbage can--it doesn't make it cleaner.

I do NOT recommend adding ANYTHING as a preventative other than chlorine and polyquat.

When you start adding stuff "just in case" you are asking for trouble.

Remember: only TWO things in pool chemistry really matter--pH and chlorine sanitation. Everything else is to help pH and chlorine do their jobs.

[SeanB.]

I'm considering duraleigh's Troublefreepool.com site as it looks like they have a good kit for sale.

Any assistance would be greatly appreciated.


Dave

Dave, the kit you are referring to, which is sold by Duraleigh, can be found at www.tftestkits.com .

His kit is often mentioned in conjuction with my site, troublefreepool.com, but the two sites are in fact seperate. I have the tf-100 myself and it is a great kit.

HTH.


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