New to BBB

[minermom]

Can someone please tell me what I should do? I'm new to the BBB method and I have an 18 x 38 ABG with a 6.5 deep end. We started with new water about 3 weeks ago due to having to drain the pool.
My numbers today according to the HTH test kit from Wal-Mart are this:
Alk - 170
Ph - 7.2
Chl - 5.0
CYA - 58
My water is kinda of a milky white. You can see the shallow end, but not the deep end.
How can I fix this?
Thanks for any help
Kerrie

[Watermom]

Have you added anything to your water other than bleach? List everything that you have added. Also, have you let your chlorine level drop? If so, your cloudy water may be the result of algae. You should be running your pump and filter 24/7 while you are fighting cloudy water.

[minermom]

Actually the chlorine level had dropped from about a 5 two days ago to about a 1 yesterday. I added a gallon of bleach and that raised it back up to a five. This all started with buying chemicals at the pool store and me deciding I could do the basic stuff (with your help) myself.
My first numbers on Saturday from the pool store were:
TA - 20
CYA - 0
PH - 6.5
TH - 30
Phosphates - 500
TC - 0
FC - 0
I added about 20 boxes of Arm and Hammer, 2 boxes (4lb boxes) of Borax and two gallons of bleach. I also added 8 lbs. of UV shield, 1 bottle of phosaway, and 1 bottle of Polyquat 60. (This is not the exact order, would that make a difference?) After the phosaway is when the water started to turn whitish in color.
I haven't been able to test the water this morning, but will this afternoon.
Can you also please explain or give me the link to find out exactly how much your Ph changes with what amount of borax. (Same for alk.)
Thanks so so so much for your help.:o
Kerrie

[aylad]

Hi, Kerrie,
Wow, you have quite a coctail there....the first thing that you need to keep in mind is to add things in small amounts, and one at a time, to keep things from really getting out of hand and making a mess like the one you have on your hands. First of all, the amounts of arm and hammer and Borax that you added at once are probably the majority of your problem. Did you add them through the skimmer, or broadcast them over the pool? Make sure that you're keeping your pump/filter on 24/7, and that should help clear it up if it's suspended powder in your pool.

Secondly, your pH change with a given amount of Borax is going to depend on your total alk and pool size at the time you add it. Generally it's best to start with a small (or in your case with a very low pH, medium) dose of Borax, give it a little time to circulate, test, then adjust as needed to get to your target. Same goes with alk--it's best to add a little, then test and add more, since lowering alk if it gets too high can be done but it's a pain to do so. Also, the next time you find yourself needing to raise your pH and your TA, use A & H washing powder--it'll raise both pH and TA at the same time.

Third, I hate to tell you this, but you got pool-stored with the phosaway, which you don't need--phosphate removers are a great scam for pool stores to sell you something that you don't need and make large profits for themselves. I'm assuming that the "UV shield that you added was CYA, or cyanuric acid. If not, add that to the "pool-stored" list. If so, did you broadcast it, or add it through the skimmer? If you broadcasted it, make sure to vaccuum up any that's sitting on your liner and let it dissolve in your filter. If it went in through your skimmer, make sure you don't retest for it or backwash your filter for about a week, because that's how long it takes for it to completely dissolve. Also, I don't recall offhand the gallonage of your pool, but keep in mind that once your stabilizer is in the pool, there's no getting rid of it to lower the levels except to drain and refill, so you don't want to go overboard on that, either.

The polyquat is okay, but it isn't necessary if you keep your chlorine at appropriate levels, and the addition of polyquat after you add chlorine will completely deplete your chlorine level, so you'll need to add more to get it back up again.

I hope this helps. You can do BBB without many problems, but don't let the pool store sell you stuff you don't need--that's the whole point of the BBB system!

Janet

[minermom]

Thanks for your help...
I realized after reading this site, that I was pool stored:mad: . I think the UV shield was CYA, and I added it through the skimmer. However about two days after adding, I did backwash for a little bit. What will that cause?
We have had ALOT of rain here and I think that with leaving the pump on 24/7 has caused the water to clear up significantly.
Can you please answer a couple more questions?
What is stabilizer? Is it CYA? Our pool is 23000 gallons and the last test I did at home the CYA was about 55. Also is there a chart on how much to add (like 1 box of A&H washing powder will raise ph and alk. certain ppm).

[CarlD]

Cyanuric Acid (CYA) is stabilizer.

It slows down the breakdown of chlorine, especially by UV rays. Without it your chlorine can vanish in as little as 15 minutes.

But it's a two-edged sword. It slows down chlorine breakdown in EVERY way, including what you want chlorine to do---sanitize your pool.

There's a chart, called the "Best Guess" table that tells you how much chlorine you need depending on your CYA level. The more CYA, the more chlorine.

[minermom]

So, here's today's numbers:
CL - 1.0
PH - 7.3
TA - 150
TH - 0
CYA - 0

Any help is appreciated. The water is still milky in the deep end and a little cloudy in the shallow.

Is there any chance that the low hardness is causing it to be milky and have foam on the water?

I'm still running the pump on high all the time. (Scared of my electricity bill).

Kerrie

[aylad]

What are you using to test your water? You said in an above post that the last time you tested for CYA at home it was 55, but state that it's now zero. Unless you totally drained and refilled it since the 55, then that's not possible...the only way to reduce the CYA is to either let the pool go completely green or drain and refill 100% of the pool all at one time.

Stabilizer is the same as CYA, and I suspect that's what they labeled as "UV Shield". Look at the container. If it says the main ingredient is cyanuric acid or isocyanuric acid, then it's CYA. If the container lists any additional or different ingredient, then please post that here, because it may effect what you have to do to clear it up.

Having a zero hardness is not the cause of the milky water, and certainly does not cause the foam. I think that the combination of lots of additions all at one time and the phosaway stuff you added are the problem. The only thing I know to do at this point is to keep your chlorine levels up (and if your CYA is really 55, then Cl of 1 ppm isn't going to be high enough) and keep your pump running.

Also, if your alk is 150, do not add any washing powder, because it's going to go too high. You can use Borax to raise the pH if you want that any higher, but personally, I'd leave it alone. Continuing to add stuff to the mix is going to make the problems worse instead of better. To answer your question about the chart, no, there's not one that I know of that will tell you about r washing soda calculations. There is a bleach calculator around the forum that has Borax amounts listed as a calcuation, but that's not for pH control, it's for the use of Borates, which isn't something that you need to worry about for right now. Won't do you any good for pH control issues. At 7.3, I'd leave it alone.

Janet

[kwong]

try this :

http://www.minbar.com/pool_calc.html :)

and what i do is i have those kitchen pyrex measuring cups in 1 cup and 1/2 liter sizes and when i need to convert xxx grams or whatever units to something else (that is referenced in either beachcalc or pool_calc).. i goto www.google.com and type in:

convert xx grams to oz

and google spits out a nice answer that i can measure with my measuring cups! :D

[minermom]

I am using a HTH kit from Wal-mart, and I probably am doing it wrong. I know that the two previous times I used it the circle at the bottom became hard to see at about 55 or so. But yesterday I could see it, even after the liquid was all the way to the top of the vial.
I'll redo it today and see.
I really appreciate the help and the link to the chart. That's what I had in mind.
So would you recommend just adding bleach? My chlorine level was about a 1 yesterday.
Sorry I'm so confused....
Kerrie

[dawndenise]

I think the UV shield was CYA, and I added it through the skimmer. However about two days after adding, I did backwash for a little bit. What will that cause?
We have had ALOT of rain here...

Backwashing and draining off excess water from rain will also drop your CYA/stabilizer/conditioner level. That's why you try to add CYA and not backwash for awhile, but sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do. If you have to drain a bit from excess rain, that's what you have to do. Then you retest after the rain stops and adjust accordingly. :)

[minermom]

Just a update..
After shocking the pool, ( I went by the 53 CYA) and directing the return jet to aerate the pool, it is the clearest it's been in a week.
Fingers crossed...
Kerrie