thepoolcleaner pressure side cleaner... so far so good...

[leejp]

I recently got a thepoolcleaner pressure side cleaner and installed it a couple of days back.

http://www.thepoolcleaner.com/

This is the cleaner that doesn't require a booster pump. My pool is a a 26KGal IG with 1 skimmer, bottom drain, 2 returns and a dedicated cleaner return that was never hooked up. I bought a Hayward 1HP Superpump + Pro Grid 4800 DE filter this year (replaced a 3/4HP and a EX65A Perflex DE filter) as I wanted enough flow for the cleaner.

I went with this cleaner because I didn't want the cost ($150 initial for the pump + ~$75/season in electricity) of a booster pump. I considered a Polaris 360 or a Letro Legend II but after speaking with customer service for all three companies, I came to the conclusion that thepoolcleaner required less pressure/flow than the other models. Customer service at thepoolcleaner was awesome (speak to a really helpful person in SoCal right away). They explained that flow (not pressure) is what's required for the cleaner to operate and actually overnighted me a coupling and a length of hose to measure the flow out of the cleaner return with a 5 gallon bucket (25~30gal/min desired)... How's that for service! I hooked the hose up, found the flow within range and ordered the cleaner.

I plumbed the new filter pump so I can divert the water from the filter either to the returns or the cleaner return. I used 2x2 way valves instead of a 3 way since I wanted to isolate the chlorinator output to the returns only (so the chlorinated water does not flow throught the thepoolcleaner).

Installing the cleaner was simple. It took less than an hour to unpack, assemble and install. With both the valves open 100% (1/2 to returns, 1/2 to cleaner). I get 12 RPMs on the wheels which is on the low end of the recommended range (11-14RPMs), I went ahead and ran the cleaner this way and while the climbing is less effective (get 1~2 feet up the walls), the cleaner still did an awesome job. I got my pump running 3x3hr cycles and the cleaner is pretty much getting around the whole pool per each cycle.

I'll experiment with diverting more flow to the cleaner but after speaking with customer service and looking at the results as is. It's no big deal if the cleaner doesn't climb the walls high. I think I might leave well enough alone.

I've owned an Aquabot Turbo (nothing but headaches) and a Pool Rover Plus (Awesome). There are the good and bad with each type of cleaner. I have a fairly leafy pool and I like the fact that thepoolcleaner "lives" in the pool and cleans 3x/day so the pool is always ready to go. The robotics were better for deep cleaning 1~2x/week. My problem with the pool rover plus was that my wife (petite woman) could not easily lift it out of the pool. To empty the bag on thepoolcleaner is simple.

So far so good!

[anotherpyr]

The only reason I went with the Polaris 360 over thepoolcleaner was finding one. Don't get me wrong I love my Polaris and I'd buy another, but I was nervous that my 1hp pump wouldn't drive it. Turns out it has no problem getting the revolutions, in fact I had to slow it down. But I didn't come here to hijack your thread. Quite the opposite. I'd like to read more about these and where they can be found. I could only find their suction side models and swore them off after 5 years of dealing with a Kreepy Krauly. So keep me updated!

Bill

[leejp]

The only reason I went with the Polaris 360 over thepoolcleaner was finding one. Don't get me wrong I love my Polaris and I'd buy another, but I was nervous that my 1hp pump wouldn't drive it. Turns out it has no problem getting the revolutions, in fact I had to slow it down. But I didn't come here to hijack your thread. Quite the opposite. I'd like to read more about these and where they can be found. I could only find their suction side models and swore them off after 5 years of dealing with a Kreepy Krauly. So keep me updated!

Bill

I don't mind that the thread expands for discussion on cleaners that don't require a booster pump. Some folks claim that the cleaners with a booster pump are more effective. I just can't imagine the pool any cleaner than it is now with thepoolcleaner.

Why pay a $150 for a booster pump and a $100/season to run the cleaner when one doesn't have to? I think the "trick" is to oversize the filter and the plumbing and get a good amount of flow to the cleaner return. I think most folks if they had the option would go for a cleaner that didn't require a booster pump but the PBs around here install the Polaris 380. A lot of folks are shocked when they get their first electric bill after putting a pool in.

I think I would have been just as happy with the Polaris 360 or the Letro Legend II. What I would really like is a Hayward Phantom (skims and cleans the surface as well as the bottom + walls) type cleaner that doesn't require a booster pump.

[anotherpyr]

I think the PBs go the booster pump, Polaris 380 route for convenience. It offers them both more profit by selling you 2 items instead of one and less headaches. They don't end up with a used Polaris 360 when the existing pump can't drive one. That said I think the local pool store I buy my DE from could of sent me home with the pressure test kit to see if I could operate one instead of telling me I'd definitely need a booster pump. For the pool owner the ability to put the booster pump on a timer can be a big win in the laziness department. If I only had a dedicated return line and an electrically operated valve I'd be in heaven. ;-)

[leejp]

If I only had a dedicated return line and an electrically operated valve I'd be in heaven. ;-)

I have a dedicated return line but no automated valve. The cleaner just runs whenever the pump is on. My pump is on a timer and runs 3x3hr cycles/day (9hrs total).

When I spoke to the folks at thepoolcleaner, the first thing they mentioned is that the most PBs "screw up" and undersize the filter+plumbing (flow... not pressure is what's important) and even a 1/2HP pump in a properly designed pool can run their pressure side cleaner. I tend to agree... even if one doesn't have an automatic cleaner, why not design the pool so it uses less energy? So many folks I know are absolutely floored when they see their first electric bill after the pool goes in. We're on a 2 month billing cycle here and the pool can actually add $100~150 to the bill.

[chem geek]

I currently have a booster pump (0.75 HP) and a Letro Legend and have scheduled my PB to change my main pump from a fixed-speed 1.0 HP to a variable-speed Intelliflow. I had asked him if there was a pool cleaner that could run with just the one pump (either suction side or pressure side) and he recommended The Pool Cleaner (pressure side) and said he was skeptical at first but tried it in his own pool and loves it and has several customers who now use it as well.

Since I already have a dedicated line for the booster pump, he will pipe that into the return lines with an electric multi-way valve so an appropriate amount of flow can go to The Pool Cleaner and with the variable speed pump we can set up a program to increase (or decrease) the flow rate as needed when this cleaner is running. This combination should save a LOT of energy. I currently spend around $1400 per year in electric costs for the two pumps (7 months of summer use with 8-hour main pump time plus 3-hour 4-day-per-week booster pump time; 5 months of winter use with 2-hour main pump time plus 1-hour 2-day-per-week booster pump time). The new setup should save me a LOT of money -- at least $1000 per year. :)

Richard

[tclemmer]

Its been several months, how about an update on the Pool Cleaner? I have a phantom on it's third year and it is costing me so much in parts that I am looking to change next season.

Please let me know the good and bad of your first three months with "The Pool Cleaner".

Tom

[chem geek]

I've had ThePoolCleaner for a few months now (it was installed on June 28th) and found that driving it from a dedicated return line that was even partly shared with regular return lines doesn't work very well. The cleaner requires a certain amount of water flow and its resistance will force most water to flow through alternate paths (i.e. returns). I already had 3 regular returns and had to direct most of the flow to the cleaner with the pump at very high (and inefficient) speed in order to make the cleaner work. Also, though the PB said to just leave the cleaner in and working whenever the pump was on, that is annoying (to us) during use of the pool and trying to disconnect and especially reconnect the cleaner when the pump is on is difficult.

So instead I decided to get an electronic valve to switch all pressure-side flow from the pump to the cleaner and to set the pump to a low flow rate when the cleaner is to be used and run this during off-hours when we would not normally be using the pool. The Pentair Intelliflow would only go down to 15 GPM, but it turns out that this is about right for ThePoolCleaner on a dedicated 1.5" return line -- it's RPM is just a shade above the high side of its recommended 11-14 RPM and its pressure relief valve isn't getting triggered (which it would if the pressure was way too high). In this setting, my pump draws 540 Watts when running the pool cleaner which is a lot better than a typical 50 PSI booster pump at around 1500 Watts. If one needed to, one could have partial flow to other returns to reduce the flow rate, BUT I found that such partial redirection of flow is very unstable and inconsistent -- it's seems much better to dedicate flow completely to the cleaner and run the pump as low as you can (if possible -- obviously that only works with a variable speed pump).

Part of the cleaning principle to ThePoolCleaner is that it is operating whenever the pump is running so I was sacrificing this extra time by doing what I described above. Nevertheless, I find that I can run the system 2 hours per day and keep the pool clean (3 hours is a little better, but not usually worth it) BUT I have an electric opaque safety cover that keeps most junk out of the pool. When the pool is open and in use, almost every day for 1-2 hours plus 3-4 hours each day on the weekends, it does get its share of cedar needles blown in (we're torn between cutting down the cedar tree to eliminate its dumping of needles vs. it's beauty in our yard).

So I would say that a pool with a typically "too large" pump going to a smaller number of returns (1 or 2) could possibly have ThePoolCleaner on an additional return or one one of those returns and work OK. If you have many returns (3 or more) or a more appropriately sized pump, then you might not get enough flow rate.

The only other "issue" I noticed was that ThePoolCleaner tends to want to clean the deep end more frequently than the shallow end. I've tried adjusting the floats to exactly the way that is recommended, but it still seems to happen. So the cleaner does seem to need to be run for at least 2 hours or more in order to have a reasonable probability of getting the shallow end clean.

The cleaner bag seems much better than the Letro Legend bag I had. It's not only fine to catch small debris (dirt), but the velcro portion is on the side instead of the top and is strong so it stays closed. My Letro Legend bag typically needed paper clips or other assistance to stay closed after a year -- we'll see how ThePoolCleaner holds up after that time, but it "seems" more sturdy.

Overall, I'm very happy with ThePoolCleaner as it is saving me quite a bit of electricity and lets me have a single (variable speed) pump, but I did have to figure out a setup that works for me. It does not seem to be a powerfully efficient cleaner the way a robot would be so for pools that get a lot of junk I suspect ThePoolCleaner would need to be run pretty much the entire time the pump is running (say, 8 hours per day), but that's just a guess on my part.

Richard

[tclemmer]

Thanks for the detailed report. This will be helpful to me as I do my research. I currently have a booster pump with it's dedicated line for the phantom. I don't think it is currently large enough to run "The Pool Cleaner" but I am going to investigate it.

Thanks again for the report.

Tom

[chem geek]

Tom,

A booster pump will be WAY too powerful for ThePoolCleaner on a dedicated line. If you meant hooking up your main pump to the dedicated line in addition to the regular returns, then you are right that it might not be powerful enough, but having a switch valve to have most flow go to the cleaner would work (but then circulation might not be as good from the other returns).

One other thing I forgot to mention is that ThePoolCleaner hose is thick -- I think it's 2" and it is noticeably larger in diameter than a regular pressure side cleaner hose. They have special fittings/adapters to convert the normal 1.5" screw for the return into their required fitting.

To get the 15 GPM and roughly 14+ RPM from ThePoolCleaner (which, again, is on the high side of what they say is needed), my pump was at 2180 RPM going only to the 1.5" dedicated line. Most of the pressure (7 PSI out of 11 PSI) was from the cleaner as 15 GPM through the pipe has relatively little loss. So the high end of the cleaner operating range is 7 PSI (for the cleaner alone, incremental to losses in the line) and 15 GPM while the cleaner is supposed to operate at lower flows/pressures as well though my experience with some flow directed to other returns and a wheel RPM closer to 11 instead of 14 was that it didn't clean as well.

Richard

[tclemmer]

Thanks. I understand that the booster pump would not be needed and thus I could incur an electricity savings. For me the issue will be the effort, time and cost of having to replumb for a non-booster pressure cleaner. Like I mentioned in my first post, I am looking for next season so I have plenty of time for research.

I do appreciate all the info you have given. Thanks again.

Tom

[salinda]

Just wanted to jump in here. I changed over a year ago from a 2 hp whisperflo and a booster-driven Polaris 280 to a 1.5 hp Ikeric and a suction-side The Pool Cleaner. I still have to run the Ikeric pretty high in the summer to get the solar heating to work well because of the design of my solar heating system (long story...) The Pool Cleaner is on whenever my pump is on. The pump runs on high when solar or my heater is on (there is a new JVA to the heater bypass that I have to activate to send all the flow through the heater whenever I want to use the heater and when that is activated, we set the pump to high so the water doesn't come out too hot into the spa--this was a patch that I don't like). The Pool Cleaner works at high or low speed and the suction on my pump is very low.

Pros:
-Saving A LOT of electricity cost. More than $100/month all year. Sometimes $200. This was great when my pool was in "freeze protection" for a large portion of our unusually cold winter last year. Really a huge savings.
-Very simple design and pretty flexible (manually)
-My water is clean
-very quiet
-overall system pressure is much lower. I have things set so the filter pressure is 11 psi when the pump is low and 19 when the pump is high. If I were to completely bypass the heater, which I probably should do, the pressures would be much lower. This all saves an incredible amount of wear and tear on my pool equipment and allows the filter to work much better.

Cons:
-not as easy to turn off the cleaner and remove it from the pool. I used to just press a button inside my house and unplug the cleaner. Now I have to change valving at the equipment. I don't think the pool remodeler really thought this through well enough and I wish they had shared their plans with me better up front so that I could tweak them (I have an instrumentation/controls background...)
-Robs suction from the skimmer. Enough that I am not so happy about the surface circulation. The surface is never as clean as it used to be. A booster pump would eliminate this issue as it would pull (or push, as in the case with a pressure-side system) the extra needed through the pump. I now need to do more manual labor on my pool to clean the tile line. I have tried changing circulation patterns with the returns to little or no avail.

There is much more, but I am happy enough with it to wait for the payback of all my changes before making more....