Coffee

[Jeffski]

I agree with that. I just don't think those charges are any more outrageous than a $4 cup of coffee at Starbucks or an $8 can of beer at the ballpark... and we gladly pay those.


EDIT by Watermom -- In case anybody is reading this and thinks Jeff's comment "I agree with that" seems kind of out of the blue and random, it is because this coffee discussion was moved out of a different forum. The original thread was a discussion about how much money it takes to operate a pool and several comments about coffee just kept building until 19 or the 26 posts within that thread were about coffee. So, I moved those posts here into a separate thread in the "off topic and general interest" forum.

Thanks.

[CarlD]

I agree with that. I just don't think those charges are any more outrageous than a $4 cup of coffee at Starbucks or an $8 can of beer at the ballpark... and we gladly pay those.

I don't. And where I live Starbucks is over $6--but Dunkin' is still $2.25 for a large coffee. I haven't bought a cup of coffee at Starbucks in 10 years.

And even at Giant Stadium for Jets games the premium beer is about $7...I don't pay it gladly, but because I have no alternative.

[matt4x4]

even 2.25 is a lot for a cup of coffee that cost approximately 20 cents to make, here in Canada, Tim Horton's charges 1.35 for a large, that's about 1.00 US, now that's fair!
I think Carl got "pool stored" at the dunkin donuts!!!! Hope they delivered that for ya!!!!

Unfortunately, if you have ANY trade come to your house to do work, you get charged big time, that's the way it is. If people learn to help themselves, this can be overcome easily enough, however, if you do not want to educate yourself on how to fix or maintain what you own, then you pay the price, that's just the way it is.
I saved myself approximately 1350 dollars this spring between a furnace issue and a septic tank issue - the furnace fix was 200 instead of 600 and the septic issue was 40 (yes 40!!!) instead of 900 - funny how the stink factor can increase the cost so dramatically!!!!!!

[CarlD]

even 2.25 is a lot for a cup of coffee that cost approximately 20 cents to make, here in Canada, Tim Horton's charges 1.35 for a large, that's about 1.00 US, now that's fair!
I think Carl got "pool stored" at the dunkin donuts!!!! Hope they delivered that for ya!!!!

And on the streets of NY, the vender carts charge $1.60! And it's better coffee than Dunkin, which is light years better than Starjunk's!

[KurtV]

For me, I cannot fathom allowing someone to open or close my pool. When I open, while I have lots of dirt on the bottom, the water is always clear, with no green.

Even more so, though, I cannot see why our denizens here should ever allow a "professional" to add any chems to their pool.

But to each his own, and I think if you choose to have a service open and close your pool, you should still handle all the testing and chemicals yourself. We TRY to make understanding pool chemistry easy for our fellow home-owners.

While I too prefer to do my own work on the pool, for many people it's just not worth it. There are many people who make salaries that equate to hourly wages of well over 100 dollars; saving a couple hundred bucks for a few hours work just doesn't make sense for them. Even if they're getting a fairly raw deal. Likewise, spending even 5 or 10 minutes per day on maintenance. I'm not in that boat (yet), but I understand the mentality.

I certainly don't get the coffee thing in this country; the last time I was in Italy (2005) a stand-up cappucino was about 0.80 euros and, at every single bar I went to, the coffee was sublime.

Dunkin' Donuts dark roast isn't too bad, but that fake cream they use is truly an abomination.

Starbucks coffee is 1.80 plus tax here. I can't imagine paying $6.00. Must be those same people who are hiring pool services.

[Jeffski]

Okay I admit I was referring to the Latte and not just a coffee. I've never bought coffee from Starbucks because I can't tell the difference, but about once a month I need a Toffee Nut Latte and will happily pay the $4.

[CarlD]

Dunkin' Donuts dark roast isn't too bad, but that fake cream they use is truly an abomination.

Starbucks coffee is 1.80 plus tax here. I can't imagine paying $6.00. Must be those same people who are hiring pool services.

Fake cream? Here, they use milk and I usually drink it black.

Starbucks $!.80? Here they let you come in and smell the coffee for that. That gets you a shot-glass size cup, but it isn't espresso, turkish or cuban coffee--it's just coffee (and bad coffee too!)

[NWMNMom]

I think there are a lot of people out there who just haven't been able to find us here on our forums so don't know just how simple and inexpensive it is. I have lots of friends and relatives that still roll their eyes and think I am lying or exagerating when I say that my pool really is not much work at all, and VERY little more work than those smaller soft side pools.

I would admit that when we started, we were clueless and some of the pool places (not all I'm sure, but all around here!) really do make it seem like rocket science so people are scared away from DIY pool maintc.

BTW, I never buy a cup of coffee, I get up early and grind beans for a fresh pot each day. DIY pool, DIY coffee - spread it around.

[CarlD]

BTW, I never buy a cup of coffee, I get up early and grind beans for a fresh pot each day. DIY pool, DIY coffee - spread it around.

Yeah, yeah, yeah.....:cool:

I have coffee shipped to NJ from the best roaster in the world: M.E. Swing's of Alexandria, VA. We've had it shipped for 14 years.

I grind it every night just before bed and set it for my wife, the early riser. Weekdays, 12 cups, weekends, 14 cups. Grind to near powder, shake the filter so the coffee is level, stir or let sit to blend the flavor evenly...

We alternate between Guatemalan, Ethiopian (Yergacheffe), Columbian, Kenyan, French Breakfast and a house blend they call Mesco ("M.E.Swing& CO"--get it?).:rolleyes:

That doesn't keep me from buying the occasional cup of Dunkin'--and ENJOYING it!:D

And good diner coffee is still good diner coffee (when it's good).:p

[ChuckD]

One word: Cuisinart Grind 'n Brew

Ok, a couple words... but still.
Every morning, dump in the beans, pour in the water, push the button.
Even my wife can do it!

[CarlD]

One word: Cuisinart Grind 'n Brew

Ok, a couple words... but still.
Every morning, dump in the beans, pour in the water, push the button.
Even my wife can do it!

But it only comes in 10 or 12 cups--weekends we use the BIG 14 cup Cuisinart.:D (twice a day, too!)

[matt4x4]

So you guys get all wired up on the black juice for what??? Pool maintenance???
hehe!
We had a 26 hour power failure last fri/saturday - I was going to crank up the genny at 6 am saturday to brew a pot, then decided it might be more neighbour friendly (it hooks up 40 feet from their bedroom) if i just drove the 15 minutes to our closest Tim Horton's and got a couple of extra extra larges - total bill came to 3 bucks and 20 in gas!!!! Was worth it though, nothing like rippin up the unpaved backroads drifting through winding turns, windows down, sunroof open, favorite tunes cranked!

[KurtV]

If you like American style coffee, try a vacuum brewer (http://www.sweetmarias.com/prod.brewers.vacuum.shtml)and you'll never use a drip brewer again. You can also make great coffee with a press pot. Since obtaining a La Pavoni espresso maker though, I rarely use anything else.

Likewise, roasting the beans yourself makes a huge difference in the quality of the finished product and is pretty darned economical as well.

[CarlD]

So you guys get all wired up on the black juice for what??? Pool maintenance???
hehe!


Sure! What's your point??

No, I'm not roasting my own beans...It's not like I have time or energy to do what I need now!

There's also cold-extraction coffee--super-smooth, but uses far too much coffee for what you get.

I mess with the coffee, my wife brains me! So I stick with a GOOD drip pot.

[CanuckPool]

CarlD's other signature line...

Stay ahead of your coffee!
Take 2 to 5 minutes every day for java maintenance!

[ChuckD]

Sure! What's your point??

No, I'm not roasting my own beans...It's not like I have time or energy to do what I need now!

There's also cold-extraction coffee--super-smooth, but uses far too much coffee for what you get.

I mess with the coffee, my wife brains me! So I stick with a GOOD drip pot.

Where's chem_geek when we really need him?

[CarlD]

CarlD's other signature line...

Stay ahead of your coffee!
Take 2 to 5 minutes every day for java maintenance!

ROFLMAO!:D

I take about that to develop it, but I take a lot more time than that drinking it!

[CarlD]

Where's chem_geek when we really need him?

Oh, NO!....Richard would RUIN the coffee. Unlike pool care, GREAT coffee requires a little magic and secret rituals!

No matter how closely she follows my steps, my wife INSISTS that the coffee is always better when I make it!:D

Either I make great coffee, OR I'M BEING HAD!:confused:;):rolleyes:

[CanuckPool]

I heard somewhere if you put a little salt in with your grinds your coffee will be more mellow. Anyone heard the same?

[CarlD]

I heard somewhere if you put a little salt in with your grinds your coffee will be more mellow. Anyone heard the same?

yup. It's an old trick. Never seems to do much to my coffee so I don't bother.

Also heard a little sugar in them--Yuck! The guy who insists that helps makes THE WORST coffee in the world. But he doctors his with tons of milk and sugar. I drink it black.

Good coffee, good water, good measurements, good filters and a good machine make good coffee.

[waterbear]

No matter how closely she follows my steps, my wife INSISTS that the coffee is always better when I make it!:D

Either I make great coffee, OR I'M BEING HAD!:confused:;):rolleyes:
Trust me, you are being had! I use the same trick to get the significant other to brew the java even though I make a better pot!;) (Especially on Sunday morining when I want to read the paper and sip the brew!)

[NWMNMom]

...and just as important is WHEN you drink your coffee in relation to when it is brewed AND if it is kept on a warmer or not. Our factory chemist came in one day recently while I was enjoying a very particularly good cup (I brew my own expresso in my office so I don't drink from the community Bunn machine like the rest of the hoards) and told me that after X amount of time of being brewed the chemical content in coffee becomes something else all together at the molecular level and this does not take into account the different types of water being used etc. My eyes must have begun to glaze over so he moved on to the next office to ruin their coffee experience too. Does every large corporation have one of these guys or is it the same one, moving from place to place???

[CarlD]

Oh, I KNOW I've been had--but I still make better coffee (but I LOVE hers--it means I didn't have to make it!:D )

That chemist is full of it. Besides, he can say anything he wants. If my tongue is happy with the coffee, I'm happy!

Two things happen when coffee sits just after it's brewed (on a plate that isn't hot enough to boil it off)
1) the convection currents even it out. you can (should) stir it if you don't have time.
2) there's a slight smoothing of the flavor as some oils evaporate.

Of course, if the warmer is too hot, the coffee gets burnt tasting, so if you like it blistering hot, wave it, or drink it fast.

[KurtV]

Two things happen when coffee sits just after it's brewed (on a plate that isn't hot enough to boil it off)
1) the convection currents even it out. you can (should) stir it if you don't have time.
2) there's a slight smoothing of the flavor as some oils evaporate.
...

You lost me there Carl. External heating after brewing always makes coffee worse and it only takes a few minutes to degrade the taste noticeably. That's the reason you'll never see coffee on a warmer in a decent coffee house; they transfer it immediately to an airpot.

[waterbear]

Hmmm, I'm wondering if this thread would be more suitable for the "China Shop"! :D It's starting to get into the theoretical aspects of coffe brewing and drinking!;)

[NWMNMom]

Oh yah, coffee is a religion unto itself...lol. Maybe you should move it. Apparently, there are three things we should never discuss in polite company because you never know who you will offend or send off on a tangent - politics, religion and COFFEE!!

[KurtV]

NWMNMom,
You could add cigars and single malt whiskey to that list.

[CarlD]

You lost me there Carl. External heating after brewing always makes coffee worse and it only takes a few minutes to degrade the taste noticeably. That's the reason you'll never see coffee on a warmer in a decent coffee house; they transfer it immediately to an airpot.

Uh-huh. That's why I'm known as an iconoclast. 25 years of my own home brewing has shown me that this last is only partially true. The right coffee sitting at the right temperature, can actually get smoother and more flavorful. The wrong coffee (especially strong mud) gets acidic and burnt tasting. So, at home, if our coffee sits a while it gets better.

But in the office, if THAT coffee sits, it turns into battery acid after more than 30-45 minutes. But it starts off tasting at best mediocre.

Cigars? Never touch em! Only thing they are good for is warding off mosquitoes.

Single Malt? Not me. I lost a battle with a bottle Dewar's White Label when I was 16 and just the smell of Scotch turns me green. Even single malt Irish has no appeal, and more than a little bit starts tasting like....Scotch:(

Now a fine, old Martiniquan Rum, or Clef De Duc Armagnac, or even certain high end tequillas and I'm happy!

[NWMNMom]

But who can beat a nice refreshing rum drink poolside? And a good wine with dinner. This winter, we started making our own wine from our wild plums and the 4 types of grapes growing in our yard or woods nearby - so far, thumbs up for my wines, they all taste like they should (not vinegar and not rubbing alcohol)

[CarlD]

But who can beat a nice refreshing rum drink poolside? And a good wine with dinner. This winter, we started making our own wine from our wild plums and the 4 types of grapes growing in our yard or woods nearby - so far, thumbs up for my wines, they all taste like they should (not vinegar and not rubbing alcohol)

Sounds good! But Old Rum is like Old Cognac--you put it in a glass or snifter. You don't mix it. Hard to get REALLY good rum in the USA.

[Tominthedesert]

If you really want good coffee, you have to buy green beans and roast them yourself. That's what my husband and I do. You can modify an old air style popcorn maker for this. A great source for coffee information is www.sweetmarias.com. That's where we purchase our beans from. Once you roast your own beans you will never go back. However you do need a better style coffee machine. The old Mr. coffee style drip machine will never do.

[haze_1956]

Folgers in really good coffee, in fact I would go so far as to say that the best part of waking up is Folgers in my cup. :D

[CarlD]

Folgers in really good coffee, in fact I would go so far as to say that the best part of waking up is Folgers in my cup. :D

Whatever floats your boat.

That's what makes horse-racing. Everyone likes different horse.

Me, I can barely tolerate Folgers. Dunkin' unground beans will do in a pinch.:p

I prefer to let M.E.Swing's do my roasting. After 21 years of buying from them they have FINALLY figured out how to vacuum pack their beans!

Considering I keep trying to find ways to help people spend LESS time on their pool maintenance, I'm not about to look for ways to spend MORE time on coffee making!:rolleyes: Especially when our morning brew is delicious and my BH insists I make the best coffee in the world! (but she's biased AND wants to make sure she doesn't have to do it!:D )

[KurtV]

...Once you roast your own beans you will never go back.
Too true. You just can't know how good coffee can be until you have some that's been made with freshly roasted beans.

However you do need a better style coffee machine. The old Mr. coffee style drip machine will never do.
You're right again. About the only consumer drip machine makers that make consistently great machines are Technivor and Capresso, and you've got to drop close to 200 bucks for their lower end machines.

One of the great things about roasting your own is that you get the best possible result and save money at the same time; green coffee beans are much cheaper than roasted. Sorta like the poolforum way of maintaining your pool.

[haze_1956]

Whatever floats your boat.

That's what makes horse-racing. Everyone likes different horse.

Me, I can barely tolerate Folgers. Dunkin' unground beans will do in a pinch.:p

I prefer to let M.E.Swing's do my roasting. )

You have to understand Carl, my post was in fact a humorous reference to the Folgers jingle, you know, a joke !

Ah well !!!!

[waterbear]

You're right again. About the only consumer drip machine makers that make consistently great machines are Technivor and Capresso, and you've got to drop close to 200 bucks for their lower end machines.
The BEST coffee I ever made was in my old glass Chemex drip that you had to pour the water through after it boiled. It used heavy laboratory grade filter paper and the coffee it made was unbelievable. Haven't seen one around since the 70's. Would LOVE to find one of those again. You could even refrigerate the coffee and it would not cloud at all! It would taste fresh brewed when rewarmed slowly. The handblown ones from Germany were put into the Smithsonian because of their design.

[KurtV]

The BEST coffee I ever made was in my old glass Chemex drip that you had to pour the water through after it boiled. It used heavy laboratory grade filter paper and the coffee it made was unbelievable. Haven't seen one around since the 70's. Would LOVE to find one of those again. You could even refrigerate the coffee and it would not cloud at all! It would taste fresh brewed when rewarmed slowly. The handblown ones from Germany were put into the Smithsonian because of their design.

You talking about these (http://www.chemexcoffeemaker.com/)? Those do make great coffee. Much better than almost all auto-drip machines because the water hits the grounds at the right temperature (195F-205F) and you get the proper contact time. Most drip machines let the water get too cool by the time it hits the coffee and the water spends too long in contact with the grounds.

[waterbear]

You talking about these (http://www.chemexcoffeemaker.com/)? Those do make great coffee. Much better than almost all auto-drip machines because the water hits the grounds at the right temperature (195F-205F) and you get the proper contact time. Most drip machines let the water get too cool by the time it hits the coffee and the water spends too long in contact with the grounds.

YES!!!!!!! I didn't know they were still being made! You used to be able to find them and the filters in just about all the department stores! Guess I will be ordering one! I gave my old one away when I couldn't find filters for it any more. The Melita filters that you find everywhere just didn't cut it! THESE ARE THE BEST COFFEE MAKERS EVER MADE. You just have to taste the coffee they produce!

[leejp]

If you really want good coffee, you have to buy green beans and roast them yourself. That's what my husband and I do. You can modify an old air style popcorn maker for this. A great source for coffee information is www.sweetmarias.com (http://www.sweetmarias.com). That's where we purchase our beans from. Once you roast your own beans you will never go back. However you do need a better style coffee machine. The old Mr. coffee style drip machine will never do.

Do you have a Technivorm Mochameister as well?

[Tominthedesert]

No we have Gaggia. it grinds the beans then makes one cup at a time. Its awesome.

[matt4x4]

Yes Carl, I agree - it's hard to get good rum in the USA (and good beer for that matter!). That's why Canada is the only alternative choice!
I on the other hand, like to sit back with a nice hand rolled Cuban cigar and a Cuban Libre while watching the wildlife in my yard - I know what you're thinking - wasting that NICE rum watering it down with coke!!!
As for the Cuban Coffee - don't care that much for it - although my son loves the sugar packets I bring back for him - "best sugar in the world" he says!

[KurtV]

Yes Carl, I agree - it's hard to get good rum in the USA (and good beer for that matter!). That's why Canada is the only alternative choice!
I on the other hand, like to sit back with a nice hand rolled Cuban cigar and a Cuban Libre while watching the wildlife in my yard - I know what you're thinking - wasting that NICE rum watering it down with coke!!!
As for the Cuban Coffee - don't care that much for it - although my son loves the sugar packets I bring back for him - "best sugar in the world" he says!
Kinda ironic that you're enjoying a Cuba Libre made with products whose purchase will tend to delay that event. Maybe you should call it a Cuba Opresa.

[matt4x4]

ahem - excuse moi - I purchase these products IN Cuba - maybe not the coke, but all the others - yes...but we produce coke in Canada by Canadian companies - coke being the general term for the product.....doesn't have to be the actual brand name you know....
And - any Cuban rum or other Cuban spirits sold in Canada are also purchased properly and legally by our importers - at least some countries are actually helping Cuba, not raping it or waiting with baited breath for an oppertunity TO take advantage of the country.
If you (general term here) take a closer look, our country aids Cuba in many ways and has greatly improved the infrastructure there.
Unfortunately, it was the usual pillaging and plundering of another country (whose name I won't mention here) that led to Cuba's demise and to be honest, they're probably a better country for having broken off THAT relationship....

You (being the general word here again) could learn a lot of good things from them by looking beyond the oppression.
Heck - many could even learn about health care....

[Jeffski]

You lost me at health care. I'll take my chances in the US.

[KurtV]

What I've learned mainly from watching Cuba closely for the last twenty years is that foreign currency continues to enable one of the most brutal dictators of our time. I've learned that from the tens of thousands of Cubans I've picked up in the Straits of Florida while they were fleeing that "paradise" and I've learned that by following the sad sagas of people like Blas Giraldo Reyes Rodríguez. A man willing to stand up to the thuggish Castro who has been imprisoned for his temerity.

The miracle of the Cuban health care system has been pretty thoroughly debunked; it results in large part from questionable statistical practices (e.g. deflating infant mortality rates by not counting as live births those infants who die in their first seven days) and party propoganda.

Look, I know this isn't the place for this and I should not have started it here. That said, I've seen first hand the misery and opression and death brought on Cubans by Castro and feel a moral obligation to speak up for them whenever I can. I hope Matt and others will at least consider that their and their countries' support for the Cuban people may actually be prolonging Castro's reign.

[matt4x4]

I'm not saying Castro's great, I doubt his reign will be prolonged - mainly because his ailing health can't really be reversed, and if/when he passes on, it won't be kept a secret for long. Likely, his successor, whoever it will end up being, will better the country's economic state through abandoning communism, however, I feel strongly that at this point in time, the country will be taken advantage of by mightier powers who have been waiting to get their hands on every little bit of potential profitability and take it with reckless abandon.

Jeffski - As for public healthcare - outdated as it may be, it's still better than anything south of Canada's border seeing that there is next to none unless you pay.

[Jeffski]

Just deleted a paragraph in order to remain friendly.:D The healthcare in America is better than Cuba and Canada, period. Don't play the "grass is greener" card just because you ("you" meaning in general, not aimed at anyone) think you're getting a raw deal.

[matt4x4]

Jeffski - I really don't feel we're getting a raw deal here, going to the emergency with whatever issues you have and walking out fixed up isn't a raw deal - a raw deal is when you pay taxes walk out fixed up and have a 30,000 bill in your pocket for an hour's time.

Outside of that, I'm not sure what you feel is "healthcare" in the US because I really don't think you have ANY (unless you're given some nice coverage through benefits or pay for your own coverage).

We might br misinterpreting the word i used - whatever, but all I was referring to was basic "free" healthcare that comes with living in a country - like the paved roads we take for granted......when a broken arm costs you thousands and 25+% of your hard earned income goes to taxes, I think you're being taken.

[Poolsean]

OK, OK, OK.
Let's get back to Cigars. Matt, let's say I was to be up in Calgary or Toronto sometime soon, any Esplenditos or MonteCristo #2 available?

Have you tried Rocky Patel's Old World Reserve Maduro? Awesome smoke. A bit pricey though.

[matt4x4]

You can get Cuban Cigars in Toronto or Calgary or any city for that matter - I get my yearly quota in Cuba and never buy up here, if I run out, I run out, simple as that.
I wouldn't know a reputable shop in the Toronto area only because I try to avoid going there - my time's worth too much to be stuck in traffic for half a day!
This may be of some help in case you're in the area:
http://www.smokemag.com/0397/toronto.htm
A friend recommends the Smokin' Cigar - I believe they also have a website.

I haven't tried Rocky Patel's since I only smoke what I can get in Cuba, by no means am I a Cigar aficionado, just like to have a nice smooth one a few times a week, so those may well be wasted on my pallet.