ok, i dont have pea soup..more like cool blue listerine

[fog80]

I just uncovered my pool to a aqua blue type color. The pool definitely has algea at the bottom, because i cant see it. I put about 4 gallons of bleach in to try and lighten it up a little.

Now the way my system is, when i vacuum to waste it also releases the DE from my filter, so i would like to vacuum to waste before i put any de in the filter (dont want to waste it).

after my initial vacuum (to get the big stuff) i will put fresh de in and start the filtering process.

is there anything wrong with that?

also my pool is a kidney shaped ig pool, i think its gunite but im not sure. how do i figure out how many gallons my pool is?

[waste]

Hey Fog!, How are you doing (other than the algae)?

With your EC 65, there is a chance that the 'slime water' willend up on the uncoated fingers and 'gunk' them up. A method to possibly minimise this is to keep the plugs in the returns, the pressure may be enough to keep the water from filling the tank. You probably know your normal filter pressure, so check to see that it's not too much higher after you coat the fingers - if it is, you'll have to break the filter apart and hose the fingers clean:(

As for the volume, it can be figured out by breaking the pool into simple solid chunks usually, but the differing radii (and the reversed radius) make that a little tough - perhaps someone else has a formula. What I would do is measure the perimeter and multiply that # by the average depth of the pool and multiply that # by 7.5 to get a reasonably good ESTIMATE - then add chems as if it were 1/2 that size and see how much of a change you get - add more chems as needed to get your #s where you want them -- eventually (if you keep a log of results and additions) you'll get a good idea of how much of whatever chem is needed to raise the parameter X ppm.
If anyone has a better idea, I'd like to hear it as much as Fog would:D .

Good to see you back! - have a great summer and enjoy the pool!!:cool:

[fog80]

Thanks Waste, I can always count on you to help me with my problems.

Yeah I'm pretty sure I have to open the filter up and clean off the fingers. The only thing im worried about is that my pool is so dirty that if i add fresh de to the filter, i will have to backwash within a few days and lose all the de.

i wish i could vacuum to waste without losing my de.

[fog80]

ok i opened up my de filter and it was a nasty lime green color inside. I cleaned off all the tentacles and the inside of the filter and put the cover back on. Then i added about 5 lbs of de to the skimmer and let the filter run.

within an hour the pressure went up from 20psi to 30psi, so i bumped the handle and it came down to 20 again. Then another hour later the psi went back up to 30 and no amount of bumping will bring it down below 25.

Do I need to backwash and put more DE in? I mean I just added it a couple hours ago.

[ChuckD]

Hi Fog,
I also have an EC-65 (thanks Waste for that great tip about leaving the plugs in!). What kind of pump do you have? Mine's a two year old 3/4 hp SuperPump and when my filter's freshly charged with DE it runs about 11psi. Bump time is around 20. Sounds like you may have a more powerful pump which might be why your working pressure's a bit higher.

When I first opened my pool, and was filtering lots of dead algae, I was bumping at least once an hour. I just kept at this until the water started to clear (36 hours or so) and then backwashed. Now that it's about clear I'll probably backwash once more which should hold me for most of the summer.

BTW, here's another tip: pick up one of those Hayward wands you connect to a hose and insert into the open drain of the tank. Do it whenever you backwash and you'll be amazed at what a normal backwash misses.

[fog80]

im not exactly sure what kind of pump i have but i know its at least ten years old. i believe its a 3/4 hp pump by hayward.

I dont remember exactly what my starting psi was last year but i think it was in the 12-15 range.

This year my psi wont drop below 20 even when i add fresh de. I think im going to break my filter down tonight and give it an acid wash.

when you bump, does the low psi hold for a while? when i bump my psi goes down about 5 but then it goes back up very quickly. what is your procedure for bumping?

[ChuckD]

im not exactly sure what kind of pump i have but i know its at least ten years old. i believe its a 3/4 hp pump by hayward.

I dont remember exactly what my starting psi was last year but i think it was in the 12-15 range.

This year my psi wont drop below 20 even when i add fresh de. I think im going to break my filter down tonight and give it an acid wash.

when you bump, does the low psi hold for a while? when i bump my psi goes down about 5 but then it goes back up very quickly. what is your procedure for bumping?

I think that might have been a common package, the 3/4 with the EC-65. I've seen it several times.

Right, once the initial cr*p is cleared from the springtime opening, my psi stays pretty stable for at least a day.

Also, I think your absolutely right to give the elements (fingers) a wash. If you're at all like me, and dislike working with acid, I've had great success with OxyClean. 3-4 scoops in a five gallon bucket of hot water. Let it soak over night then hose it off and resoak in fresh water for a couple minutes to flush.

Bumping:
-turn the pump off
-turn the valve at the inlet closed so prime isn't lost and your efforts at the handle are optimized. On my three-way Jandy this means the handle is pointed directly away from the pump.
-Press down the handle, slowly (1 to 2 seconds to depress)
-Pull sharply up
-Repeat 7 to 10 times. I usually look for the DE to start clouding the water in the clear tube that connects the pump to the filter receptacle.
-I usually take this opportunity to clean out the basket as well.
-IMPORTANT! Open the valve back up.
-Turn pump back on.

[waste]

Chuck, just a couple of quick things on this AM's post on bumping:

1 Please remember to open the air relief valve for a few seconds (then close it again) to relieve some of the pressure on the tube sheets so they don't crack from being 'Bumped'. Cracked tube sheets will allow DE to bypass the fingers and end up in the pool.

2 There should be a backflow prevention 'flapper valve' where the water from the pump enters the filter. They fall off a lot and as long as you have the Jandy valve closed it's no problem, unless the pump is higher than the pool in which case, you may find DE on the pool floor near the MD or in the skimmer, before the pump turns on for the day. It's a minor thing, but the DE shouldn't be able to get into the pump from the filter. It's probably not a problem for you, but might be for others (some systems get plumbed without a valve:eek: )

I wish the both of you well and hope you get to enjoy your pools a smuch as posible:)

[ChuckD]

Wow. Thanks for that waste.
So I guess if I had a functioning check valve I wouldn't see that milkiness in the clear elbow assembly connecting the pump and the filter?

AFAIK, this EC65 is around twenty years old, I inherited it with the house two years ago. I've never seen DE returning to the pump when the pump's been turned off by the timer (and the Jandy remains open), even for a couple hours. And I've definitely never seen DE in the pool (and the pump/filter's 2 feet above the water level). But as I said, I stop bumping when I start to see it migrating into that elbow (when the Jandy's closed).

About the pressure relief: When I turn off my pump the gauge goes to zero so there wouldn't be any pressure to relieve. Is this normal?

[fog80]

chuck,

I saw some paperwork the old homeowner left behind and the pool filter and pump seem to be from 1987 which would make my setup 20 yrs old as well!

I did the acid wash this evening, but i didnt let it soak overnight, just for an hour or so. I also noticed that my pressure gauge isnt screwed into the filter like the picture on the manual. It seems like the previous owner plumbed some pvc in an L shape so that the gauge is visible from the top. It also looks like he glued the gauge in, so I wont be able to open it and flush out the de with a hose like the manual suggests.

However the filter wash did the trick so far, the psi is holding steady at 10 when before i couldnt get it to hold at 15 for more than a minute.

[fog80]

crap!! its been 2 hrs since i soaked my filter and added fresh de and my pressure is already up from 10-15psi to 25!!!

what else can i do???

[ChuckD]

crap!! its been 2 hrs since i soaked my filter and added fresh de and my pressure is already up from 10-15psi to 25!!!

what else can i do???

Sounds just like when I was clearing the soup two weekends ago. Is your water still not clear? Like I said, it'll take repeated bumping till it is. That's the DE filtering it out. But I'd hold off backwashing till the water's nearly there. Don't see a need for it.

[fog80]

Sounds just like when I was clearing the soup two weekends ago. Is your water still not clear? Like I said, it'll take repeated bumping till it is. That's the DE filtering it out. But I'd hold off backwashing till the water's nearly there. Don't see a need for it.

its blue but not clear enough to see the bottom. this morning i did a quick strip test and my fc was above 10.

i can bump and knock the psi down to like 20 but its back up to 25 within an hour and the water flow is extremely restricted.

[ChuckD]

In light of another post by waste that he's pretty busy this time of year, and doesn't get on the forum as often, I'll stick with you here. But he's the expert so I welcome his input. I'm an expert on my own pump and filter in my own backyard, and that's about it. That said...


You need what one of the Mods here calls a POP test. That's Pool Owner's Patience. Assuming your chems are pretty much in line, at this point in the process the filter is still removing particulate from the water which makes it less than clear. That's why the pump needs to run 24/7. And because of the effectiveness of DE, the matrix it forms on the grids needs to be broken down and rebuilt frequently, AKA bumping. You can help to alleviate some of this congestion by putting a skimmer sock on the skimmer basket, but that does nothing for water entering through the maindrain. It will grab the surface stuff though so it may be some help.

I'm also wondering if maybe you had too much DE since you claim bumping doesn't lower the pressure less than 20psi (but after acid washing it did start out at 10).

In any case, Keep the pump running and try to remember to bump when the pressure raises 10psi or so. It might be once an hour for the first two days or so, but don't sweat it about letting the pump run at this raised pressure for a couple hours unattended (like when you're asleep!). Just make sure it's adequately ventilated, and bump it the next chance you can. You need to keep it running as much as possible the first couple days. Then you can back off to 8 hours a day, or so.

And keep the skimmer and pump baskets clean as well.

[ChuckD]

One more thing:
I'm doing some reading on the net about the DE filters and one point has come up a couple times that caught my eye. That's that the amount of DE recommended by the manufacturer (in this case Hayward) is way too much for what's needed. Hayward calls for 5lbs., IIRC. I have a tub that once held 7 lbs of Cl pucks. I know that if I fill it roughly 4/5 of the way with DE (not packed down) and dump it in the skimmer when I start the pump, everything seems to work nicely and my water is absolutely clear throughout the season. (I also use the Hayward wand to really clean out the filter tank when I backwash).

I don't know how much DE that really is, but it works for me, and I back washed twice last summer, after getting the intial gunk out. I bring this up again because I'm starting to think seriously that you need to cut back on the DE.

[waste]

Gentlemen, how are you today (other than frustrated, Fog;) )?

Chuck has said quite a few good things here, and IMO is doing a great job of answering the questions! Let me add a couple of 'why' s to what's been said.
On the matter of the psi rising so quickly - the spaces between the particles of DE are almost the exact size of an algae cell - algae clogs it very quickly, bumping will drop the pressure ~ 5 lbs the first time, and less with each subsequent bumping - 'backwashing' or rinsing out the filter is the only way to get that 'used' DE out. Breaking the filter apart and hosing the fingers will probably get you back to the 10- 15 psi, but with a green pool - you've got to do it often as long as the water is green/ cloudy :( . [while I'm at it, DE filters use a coating of DE (duh!) to pre-coat the grids or fingers with a material (DE) that won't pass through the 'cloth' but will collect all but the smallest of particles. The collected particals stay on the outer surface of the DE coating and never touch the collection membrane, until you bump - bumping 'shakes' the DE coating off of the cloth and let's it drop to the bottom of the filter tank. When water starts passing through the filter again, this DE with 'scum' on it mixes with the clean stuff that was between the dirty DE and the clean DE that was on the membrane, which opens new passages for the dirty water to flow through, but not as many as a freshly cleaned and recharged coating would be. **bumping does not remove any of the dirt from the filter - unlike backwashing does - it only rearranges the clean and dirty DE to open the flow until the new channels fill up with dirt/ algae)]
Where was I... Ah, too much DE - my feeling is that the # on the plate for how much it holds is correct, but only when the filter has been fully cleaned of DE, if you've only backwashed or bumped and cleared the tank, you've still got a pound or two in the filter and should only add ~80% of the initial amount when recharging (Chuck, I'm sure that your 'wand' gets closer to 95% - adjust acordingly)

Too much DE or too little can cause performance problems, I'll link up some of my old 'gems' (;) ) on DE filters at the end of this post.

Chuck, the reason for relieving some air before bumping is because water can not be compressed, but air can - if the tank is full of water and the back pressurre from the run of the lines is too great, forcing the fingers up (and for people who do it backwards) or down can crack the plastic tube sheets - air can be compressed and will do so before the pressure cracks the sheets. So, yes, the pressure gauge will show 0, but you make some by bumping the handle.

I've gone soo far off what I had planned to say... here's some links to my other advise - if something's not covered, please ask:o

[thread=6811]EC cleaning[/tread]
other DE info
general EC info

Pfwhew! - sorry to go on so long! GOOD NIGHT!!

[fog80]

I know I'm about a year late but I wanted to thank you guys for your help. One of the problems I had with "bumping" was that the top of my filter broke so I couldnt bump properly. I was having to tap the shaft with a rubber mallet and then slowly lower the handle and then tap the shaft again.

I've gone ahead and ordered new parts for my filter and should be able to bump properly this year. I also covered my pool properly this year and so far I dont see any solid junk on the bottom. It is a mesh cover so I do have fine particles but I envision this years opening being a lot smoother than last years.

Maybe I will actually have time to focus of fixing up the pool deck (stain/sealing) and caulking the joint between the coping and deck.

Once again, thank you.

[waste]

Fog, good to see you back!!:)

I got your PM, but don't know anything about online sources:( - if I want a part I either go into my boss's pool store and take it or write a note telling the girl at the desk (Jackie) to order what I want.

I hope that your Jandy valve is working properly and also that you have a GREAT summer with your pool!!

[fog80]

Fog, good to see you back!!:)

I got your PM, but don't know anything about online sources:( - if I want a part I either go into my boss's pool store and take it or write a note telling the girl at the desk (Jackie) to order what I want.

I hope that your Jandy valve is working properly and also that you have a GREAT summer with your pool!!

no problem waste. i was able to find an online store with the part i needed for real cheap. around 120 bucks for a new filter top, bump handle assembly, lubricant tube, o rings (which im still not sure how to install).

got a late jump this summer because of work, but with a few 90 degree days in a row in md, i will be getting on it this weekend.

[waste]

When you get around to replacing things, if you have any questions - I'll answer as best I can:)

[fog80]

When you get around to replacing things, if you have any questions - I'll answer as best I can:)

Yesterday I was able to get the new EC65 top installed with a new bump handle assembly as well as new o rings. (O rings were missing in the old assembly).

Im taking the cover off today and getting some bleach in there. Even though we didnt get leaves in the pool, the water has turned green so Im thinking there is a good chance that ate up my cya.

Thanks for all your guidance.