Alternatives to Bleach during end of Conversion

[thebumble]

:confused:

Hi folks! I'm in day 5 of the conversion from Baquagoo to Bleach. I must've dumped 40 jugs of 6% bleach over the last few days! The waters a nice light blue/green now and I can just barely see the bottom! Almost there I hope!

I went to Leslies last night to get the 12% liquid chlorine and they were out. Instead they gave me some powdered shock - 75% avail chlorine, (they said stronger than the 12% liquid). The shock is Cal-Hypo (sp???) and has no stabilizer in it.

I threw in 2 whole packets (after mixing them in a bucket of water) last night, and 3/4 of one packet this morning.

Is this ok to use in a pinch during the conversion, while I had no bleach? It also says it's supposed to clear the water or algae...????

I still need to get a good drop test kit so I've been temporarily using the HTH 6-way test strips. It looks like my Ph is off the charts - very high, while alk is normal to slightly low, CL reading is way above 10, and stabilizer is low/normal.

In have an Intex Metal Frame pool 18' Dia. x 4' High, approx. 6,700 Gallons.

Any advice is appreciated. I'm getting frustrated looking at a greenish pool!

Thanks in advance!

[CarlD]

It's not "better". Pool store clerks are trained to think that powdered chlorine compounds are somehow, magically "better" than LC/Bleach.

However, unless your Calcium levels are high (over 400), you have nothing to worry about and it's perfectly OK to use it instead of LC/bleach. But watch your Calcium Hardness levels.

Despite that, unless you have low CYA or high pH, I would definitely say Cal-Hypo is better than Di-Chlor powder or Tri-Chlor tablets.

[elsie]

Carl,

For those of us with a vinyl liner and no heater, we don't need to measure for or concern ourselves with calcium, do we? While I'm at it, my understanding re: TA is that the primary reason for keeping it in line is to keep your water clear vs. cloudy. In the first three of the five seasons I've had my inherited pool, my TA was always running high, around 180. Last year and this year it's naturally hovering around 110. In both scenarios my water has been/is always sparkling clear, so I've just quit testing for it altogether other than when I first uncover and just curiosity's sake (it's 110 this season). In fact, the only things I test for anymore are FC/CC and pH (and occasionally CYA). The only chems I use are 6% household bleach and a bit of acid every two weeks -- love the simplicity. Would appreciate knowing your thoughts as to calcium & TA.

[CarlD]

Carl,

For those of us with a vinyl liner and no heater, we don't need to measure for or concern ourselves with calcium, do we? While I'm at it, my understanding re: TA is that the primary reason for keeping it in line is to keep your water clear vs. cloudy. In the first three of the five seasons I've had my inherited pool, my TA was always running high, around 180. Last year and this year it's naturally hovering around 110. In both scenarios my water has been/is always sparkling clear, so I've just quit testing for it altogether other than when I first uncover and just curiosity's sake (it's 110 this season). In fact, the only things I test for anymore are FC/CC and pH (and occasionally CYA). The only chems I use are 6% household bleach and a bit of acid every two weeks -- love the simplicity. Would appreciate knowing your thoughts as to calcium & TA.

You don't need to worry about calcium unless it hits 500ppm. Then you'll have to probably drain and replace water.

T/A's PRIMARY function is to prevent fluctuations of pH. However, if it gets VERY high, like 200ppm when Calcium is high, you can get milky water.

With your pool, though, T/A up to 180ppm is FINE. Normal range is 80- 125, but in vinyl without heaters you can go to 200ppm with no problem. However, at 200, if Calcium goes up (even as much as 400) you can get cloudy water. So I like 180 as the top for margin of error.

[elsie]

And if calcium hits 500 (vinyl liner w/o heater), what do the risks relate to? Just cloudy water (esp. if in conjunction with high TA as you said) or harm to one's liner? I believe, but I'm not sure, we like to keep our pH in range for the sake of the liner and our eyes. It appears that TA doesn't affect the liner, just potentially effects clarity of water. If that's so, a lot of people get quite worried over, and expend a lot of effort to lower, high TA often for no reason?

[CarlD]

Well, you won't reach a T/A of 200 and CH of 500 before the water goes cloudy.

I don't know that it does any actual HARM to a vinyl pool...but who wants to swim in cloudy, milky water?


You SHOULD be able to clear it up by adding muriatic acid to lower pH to 7.0-7.2 then use the T/A lowering technique of aeration to lower the T/A.

[elsie]

Sorry, Carl. My assumption was that people are putting energy into lowering TA when the water is clear, such as been my experience with high TA, never having experienced a cloudy pool because of it. For those with high TA whose pool clouds up, to be sure no one wants to look at or swim in a milky pool!

[CarlD]

Sorry, Carl. My assumption was that people are putting energy into lowering TA when the water is clear, such as been my experience with high TA, never having experienced a cloudy pool because of it. For those with high TA whose pool clouds up, to be sure no one wants to look at or swim in a milky pool!

Well, naturally prevention is better than fixing. But if your T/A is (say) 160ppm and your calcium is 200ppm and you have a vinyl pool there is NO reason to lower your T/A.

[bcb1]

There really is no magic secret or special formula to doing the baquacil conversion. Just patience, lots of chlorine, and lots of backwashing your filter.

For some folks with pretty low levels of baquacil to begin with, the conversion only takes a couple days and is very easy. Mine was like this, so I really lucked out. I hit it with about 5 pounds of Cal Hypo the first night, backwashed my sand filter a few times the next day, hit it again with a few more pounds of cal hypo the next day, and by the 2nd evening the water was virtually clear. 3rd day it was totally clear.

That being said, it's not unusual for a baquacil conversion to take several days or even a week until the water is clear. Don't give up, just stick to the basics: keep your chlorine level up to 10-15ppm during the entire process. Backwash your filter often. And as soon as the water is clear - or even close to being clear, CHANGE YOUR SAND, if you have a sand filter.

[chem geek]

Carl,

One minor comment regarding a high TA. You are right that there is no reason to lower a high TA if the CH is reasonably low in a vinyl pool in terms of calcium carbonate saturation (i.e. the saturation index), but there might be a reason to lower it if the pool is experiencing a rising pH problem requiring frequent additions of acid. Lowering the TA will help in that case. This is especially true for pools with more aeration (fountains, waterfalls, spillovers or an SWG).

Richard

[CarlD]

Carl,

One minor comment regarding a high TA. You are right that there is no reason to lower a high TA if the CH is reasonably low in a vinyl pool in terms of calcium carbonate saturation (i.e. the saturation index), but there might be a reason to lower it if the pool is experiencing a rising pH problem requiring frequent additions of acid. Lowering the TA will help in that case. This is especially true for pools with more aeration (fountains, waterfalls, spillovers or an SWG).

Richard

Absolutely, Richard.
You are correct in both points:

1) If pH is constantly rising, then lower T/A to the 80-90 range to see if that stops it.

2) If pH is NOT a problem, then vinyl pools can safely allow T/A up to 180ppm (200ppm is the actually theoretical limit, but 180 gives you a buffer zone).

[chem geek]

Carl,

Please see this thread/post (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?p=45481#post45481) for a geeky question regarding the above discussion.

Richard