help with adjusting please

[poolhelp101]

21,000 gallons inground. cl 5.0 ph 6.8 cya 50 ta 150
i had posted in the alage section problems encountered
had been keeping pool to shock to rid the green, green now gone
then had problem with brown stains
added 2 quarts of pool magnet plus for metals
has helped with the stains but some still there
haven't added bleach since last night
questions now: do i add my gallon of bleach now to maintain cl levels?
do i add ph increaser now too and if so same time as bleach?
do i add any more pool magnet plus for the remaining
stains now too and if so can it be added same time too?

I need to know the steps on how to continue and with what?
please help advise me so i know what is next and not screw up the progress i have made thus far. thank you.

[drband]

You need to get your pH up! TA looks plenty high, so I would suggest adding a box of borax and then re-checking the pH after an hour or two. You will probably need to keep your cl up for a while longer, but right now, it's important to raise ph to 7.2-7.6. You chlorine will work better, too. All that said, there are folks that know a lot more about this on this site... they'll chime in to help you!

[poolhelp101]

new problem, its beginning to get cloudy! what do i need to do to fix this? please give me some advise. I need help!

[drband]

Relax... be patient w/ the process and it will eventually clear when you get pH in the right range and then keep the cl up to shock level until everything finally clears up.

ph 7.2-7.6 is your target!

[drband]

hopefully some other folks will add some suggestions. I think your metals problem is related to your ph and shock level too, but I don't have the knowledge to help you.

[poolhelp101]

i think you are right but i don't know enough either and i don't want to do anything to screw it up. i really do appreciate you answering and trying to help me and i too hope that someone will answer that does know so i can get on this before it gets worse. so for now all i can do is wait and hope that one of them will answer and tell me what to do before the problem gets worse. thanks

[chem geek]

You didn't post your Calcium Hardness (CH) number, but if it is also high like your Total Alkalinity (TA), then raising the pH will make your water cloudy. I suggest you aerate the water to raise the pH (I agree with others that you need to get your pH raised, but you also want to lower your TA) -- don't add Borax and certainly do not add pH Up (sodium carbonate). From this thread (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=6819) it sounds like you have a vinyl liner so your CH may not be high, but that depends on your fill water -- if it's from a well, it could be high and it sounded like you accidentally used well water that didn't go through a water softener. That's why it would be good to test it and post the number.

So aerate your water to get the pH to the 7.0 to 7.2 range then keep aerating and add acid to keep the pH down and monitor the TA level. When it's down below 100, you can keep aerating to get the pH to 7.5

The BioGuard Pool Magnet Plus product you are using is a phosphonate which means that though it will sequester the metals in your pool, it will also make for great algae food. There are better metal sequestering products on the market that are not phosphonates such as Pool Stain Treat (http://www.swimpool.com/products/pool.htm) (by the way, Jack's Magic Pink Stuff (http://www.jacksmagic.com/page.cfm?id=372) has the same phosphonate main ingredient as Pool Magnet Plus as does Jack's Magic The Blue Stuff and The Vinyl Liner Blue Stuff). At any rate, you've already used the Pool Magnet so don't worry about that. It's not a big problem; just a less than optimal solution.

As for stains that may still remain on the vinyl, you could add more sequestrant (Pool Magnet Plus) and gently brush the stain area, but if the stain doesn't come off then you might need to use a stain remover. The problem is that stain removers have some form of acidity (such as ascorbic acid and oxalic acid) and that's not great for your vinyl, but you may not have much of a choice. I suggest getting the rest of your pool water chemistry in line, keep your chlorine level maintained, and lightly brush the stained area. If the stain persists even after adding the extra Pool Magnet Plus, then you can consider a specific stain removal product. If you use a stain removal product (one of the acids I mentioned), it will require the chlorine level to be very low since chlorine reacts with these acids (these acids are reducing agents and attempt to reduce the ferric form of iron to ferrous which is more readily sequestered). So if you need to do this, I suggest using a PolyQuat 60 algaecide before letting the chlorine drop to near zero and then applying the ascorbic acid stain removal. You could try Jack's Magic Iron, Cobalt & Spot Etching Stuff (http://www.jacksmagic.com/page.cfm?id=372) aka "Stain Solution #1" which is a non-acidic reducing agent. It also requires chlorine levels to be below 1 ppm FC so the use of the algaecide before use would be a good idea. Be aware that you already have the equivalent of Jack's Magic The Blue Stuff (same as The Vinyl Liner Blue Stuff) in your pool so you don't need to add that (as per their FAQ instructions).

However, it may be that you have so much metal in your water that it will be hard to remove stains. I know that others have responded with good advice, but am wondering if anyone out there has had metal stains on vinyl and successfully removed them without damaging their vinyl.

Richard

[waterbear]

The BioGuard Pool Magnet Plus product you are using is a phosphonate which means that though it will sequester the metals in your pool, it will also make for great algae food. There are better metal sequestering products on the market that are not phosphonates such as Pool Stain Treat (http://www.swimpool.com/products/pool.htm) (by the way, Jack's Magic Pink Stuff (http://www.jacksmagic.com/page.cfm?id=372) has the same phosphonate main ingredient as Pool Magnet Plus as does Jack's Magic The Blue Stuff and The Vinyl Liner Blue Stuff). At any rate, you've already used the Pool Magnet so don't worry about that. It's not a big problem; just a less than optimal solution.



Richard

Richard, Richard, Richard!!!!
I hope you are not buying into the phosphate thing! Using a phosphonic acid based seqesterant will not promote an algae bloom if chlorine levels are proper! Removing phosphates will not eliminate algae unless PHOSPHATES ARE THE LIMITING FACTOR! (relatively rare) Most pools have nitrate nitrogen in them and that is also algae food but we don't test for nitrates or nitrites in pools! My own pool has an orthophosphate reading of between 2000 and 3000 ppb and it has never had an algae bloom! (and this was way before I added borates to the watar!) My own personal experiences with staining in my fiberglass pool is that the phosphonic acid based seqesterants work much better at keeping the stains from returning then the EDTA based chelating agents.

Edit: Much of what I know of algae blooms also comes from 30+years experience in keeping marine and reef aquariums also!

[chem geek]

You are right and I apologize. I do agree that phosphates are the last thing to worry about. It was more of a knee-jerk reaction to actually adding more phosphates to the pool, but many pools have lots of phosphates and with chlorine you don't get algae. Sorry. Lost my head there for a moment. :(

Richard

[waterbear]

Poolhelp 101, you say you have brown stains. First thing to do is find out if they are metal or organic. Hold a vitamin C tablet on the stain and see if it disappears. If it does then you probably have iron staining and ascorbic acid will remove it. If you read through the Stains and Metal matters section of the forum you will find a lot of info on how to use ascorbic acid. Look for posts by Mbar (Marie), she is the forum's resident stain expert!

[CarlD]

Even Chem_Geek loses his head from time to time!:D

Waterbear is ABSOLUTELY correct: Phosphates can be/should be ignored UNLESS all corrective measures for algae-killing fail. 99 out of 100 pool store guys will sell you a phosphate-remover (expensive) that you don't need, but Evan won't.

I'm a super-minimalist: I don't like adding anything that's not needed. Only Polyquat 60%.

[poolhelp101]

thanks to everyone for responding.
i do still have some brown stains and i will get the vitamin c and try that as soon as i can. also the pool is not cloudy to the point i can't see the bottom, it's more a hazy look.
this evening we have had a hard rain, cl 5.0, ph 6.8, ta 150, cya 50 and i cannot get a reading for the hardness. i do have a sand filter, vinyl liner.
i'm a little confused, so please help me, i'm not sure what you are telling me to do..
1. i do have ph increaser, do i add that and how much or do i need to go buy borax? if i am to add any, how much
2. do i add any more bleach and how much?
3. and no more pool magnet plus, is that correct?
4. anything else i should do.
you guys are great in helping, i'm sorry i'm confused and need to ask more questions. but i certainly appreciate your guiding me again and helping me. Thanks!

[Watermom]

Marie (mbar) popped back in to the forum today. She had been AWOL during the winter like many people. She knows a lot about staining and metals. I'm gonna ask her to look at your thread and see if she has any advice for you.

[poolhelp101]

thank you so much for doing that
but in the meantime, do i need to go ahead and increase the ph?
if so is it okay to us ph increaser? i haven't added anything for the ph yet. or do i aerate as one instructed. this is probably dumb question, but how do i aerate it? i was waiting for you all to advise on that. thanks!

[mbar]

First of all take a deep breath and know that your pool will be cleared up soon. You have to know that the best thing to clear a pool is POP which is pool owners patience. Now I will try to address what I think is going on with your pool.

If there are metals in the water and you shock a pool, it could cause the metals to fall out of the water and land on the surface of the pool. If you get some stains the best thing to do is to lower the ph to 7.0 add sequesterant (most of them are good) and let the filter run 24/7. Somethimes the low ph along with the sequesterant is enough to lift the stains back into solution which the sequestering agent will then bind with the metals and keep them suspended. Your water probably got cloudy because the metals were lifted off and this is in the water now - it will take a while to clear. You can add a chlorine puck to the skimmer since you have a sand filter. You can turn your return jets up to bubble on top of water so that your alkalinity(which is high) will lower while raising the ph. When the ph gets back to 7.4, add some acid to lower back down to 7.0 and keep the jets facing up. This is how you lower alkalinity. As your alkalinity is lowered, your ph will go up. If after a few days you still see some stains let me know, you can then get some ascorbic acid to remove the remainder of the stains and I will give you the directions on how to do that if you need to.

One of the ways metals fall out of the water is with high ph and high chlorine. So you may want to keep your ph at the low end for a while, and make sure you keep a constant level of chlorine in the water so that you don't have to shock.

If you have any questions, please feel free to ask - once you get your water balanced it will be easier to keep the stains away. Always keep a sequestering agent in the water - so if you add a lot of water make sure you add enough sequestering agent. I also find that using regular bleach is easier when you have metals in the water, because you can add the bleach slowly with more control. It is also a good idea to put a puck in the skimmer while getting rid of stains, because the water will hit the chlorine puck and if the metals fall out they will fall out onto the filter before they hit the pool. Just make sure you don't pour the bleach on the puck:eek: Add the bleach in by the return jets. Let me know how it goes:)

[waterbear]

Marie,
Good to see you back again!:)
Poolhelp101, listen to her, she won't steer you wrong! (and PoolMagnet is fine to use. Chemgeek just lost his head for a moment in a fit of passion! There is truth in what he said about many sequeserants causing phosphate levels to rise but it is NOTHING to be concerned about. Also, don't use pH up. It will mess up your TA. Use borax when you need to raise pH!)

[poolhelp101]

THANK YOU SO MUCH for responding and guiding me.
i think i understand now what to do and i will begin this process as soon as i return from work this evening and let you know how i progress. i do have a question about the puck. i haven't used anything in the skimmer since i found this forum, but i do have left over HTH brand 3' chlornating tablets, is that okay to use in the skimmer for the puck or do i need to go by something else? just please let me know what to do on that. sorry for all the questions, but i have found that doing nothing until hearing from you guys on how to proceed on does steer me in the right way and gets my pool clear!
Thank you again!!! Thank you!

[mbar]

Yes, you can use what you have left over - I only use them when I have to shock my pool, and it is ok to put them in the skimmer on occasion. I wouldn't do it all the time, but if you deal with staining it is a good idea because the water that goes over the puck in the skimmer goes into the filter before it goes back in the pool, therefore if the metals are ready to fall out of solution they will land on the sand in the filter instead of the pool surface. It is part of some instructions that Pool Doc gave me when trying to get the metals "out" of the water. Keep us informed on your progress, it is how we all learn!

Thanks for the kind words Waterbear! It's great that it's pool time again here in the northeast! Well almost:) It's great to hear from everyone again!

[poolhelp101]

i put more of the pool magnet plus in this morning hoping to help the stains, which i probably messed up and read you wrong and shouldn't have done that. but i thought that was to do and should do that while the ph was low, but anyway that's what i done and the pool is completely cloudy now and i can't see the bottom at all. so have i messed up?
ch 3, ph 6.8, ta 140. i havent' put the tablet in yet, should i still do that?
do i add bleach now? and aerate now?
thanks for helping and please tell me what to do now?
i'll eventually get it right!

[mbar]

It is ok that you put more pool magnet in. It will just take some time to clear up - it will clear. You can put the puck in - just make sure you keep the filter running 24/7. Turn your return jets up - it will raise your ph while lowering your alkalinity. Remember POP. Let the pump run for at least 48 hours. If after 48 hours the water is still cloudy, take out the puck, turn the pump off over night and let the water settle so that the percipitate can drop, then vacuum to waste. You can also put a skimmer sock on the skimmer basket (the puck goes under the sock), this will catch smaller particles. You can cut off the top of panty hose and use this instead of a skimmer sock if you don't have one. Do this during the 48 hours you keep the pump running. Keep me informed:)

[poolhelp101]

Thanks once again. I am so thankful to you for guiding me and being patient with me and all my questions! I just put the puck in and put the panty hose over the skimmer basket. I can only turn one jet up to bubble...is that going to be sufficient? or do i need to try to get the others too also, don't know if i can though. you didn't say whether it was okay to add more bleach or not but you had said earlier not to let the chlorine get low, which it is around 3 now, so i added one 3/4 gallon. i just hope that was the right thing. another question too, when the time comes to vacuum the pool you said to vacuum to waste, is that a must? i loose so much water doing that and then i am going to have to put more well water in and i'm afraid i'm going to be back in the same shape as i am now. Thanks again!! and let me know!

[mbar]

You don't need any more bleach right now. Since you have only a cya of 20, you should keep your fc at 2 right now. You don't want to have high clorine because that is what drops the metals out of the water. There is a "best guess chart" sticky at the top of the chlorine forum. You will have to check your chlorine every day though, because the chlorine will get used up more quickly breaking down what is causing the cloudiness so it can be filtered. You should keep your chlorine no higher than 5, and the puck will keep adding chlorine continueously. As for vacuuming to waste, you don't have to. especially if you keep the pantyhose on the skimmer while you vacuum. As for adding more well water - if you have enough sequestering agent in the water - which you do, then the new water will mix with the sequestering agent and bind any metals that are introduced. Just make sure that you do use a maintanance dose throughout the summer. Try to get as much aeration as you can - this will speed up the process. If possible I would try to get more aeration - you can hook up a piece of hose to a return jet and have it shoot water in the air and land back in the pool. Just be sure you watch the ph and keep it between 7.0 and 7.2 while doing this. I know all of this is confusing, but it will become second nature to you after doing it for a while:) Just remember, the less you put into the water, the less you have to deal with. Once you get your water in balance it is much easier to keep it that way as long as you check on the pool once a day, till you know how your water acts, everyone's pool is different - but once you learn the "reasons" you are using the chemicals it makes it easy to see what your own pool needs. Read the stickys at the tops of the forums and it teaches you what each value of the numbers you take mean. Don't worry about asking too many questions - that is how all of us on this site have learned:cool:

[poolhelp101]

the pool is starting to clear up but it is still pretty cloudy. CL 3, ph 6.8, ta 150, and my cya is 50 not 20. so i need to keep my cl at 5, is that right?
theres no way to make my other two jets aerate to lower my ta, is there anything else i need to try to do to lower it and increase my ph?
please advise and thanks so much for your help.

[mbar]

Since you have a cya of 50, you can take your chlorine up to 6, and even higher if you want to. You can take it up to shock levels (which for you would be 15-20) if you do it slowly - you have to watch to see if any stain starts to form, if it does that means that you need more sequestering agent. Your ph is low at 6.8, you need to get it up to at least 7 with aerating. You may want to invest in a pool fountain since your fill water is high in alkalinity. Here is a link to what I am talking about.
http://www.intheswim.com/shopping/dept.aspx?deptid=1257&GCID=C14163x040&e5=Y&e6=swimming-pool-fountains&keyword=swimming-pool-fountains&s_kwcid=swimming%20pool%20fountains|734926481 (http://www.intheswim.com/shopping/dept.aspx?deptid=1257&GCID=C14163x040&e5=Y&e6=swimming-pool-fountains&keyword=swimming-pool-fountains&s_kwcid=swimming%20pool%20fountains%7C734926481)

You can find other places that sell them if you just google pool fountain.
Hope this helps, and feel free to ask any other questions you have:)

Just another thought, what is your calcium level? What do you mean you can't get a reading? High calcium with high alkalinity can cause a lot of cloudiness, plus sometimes it causes stains too. It's just good to know where the stains are coming from.

[poolhelp101]

i don't know what my calcium level is. when i try to test for it, the test water does not change colors at all. i plan on getting to the pool store soon to see what results they get(i live 40 miles away from a pool store that tests water).

[waterbear]

i don't know what my calcium level is. when i try to test for it, the test water does not change colors at all. i plan on getting to the pool store soon to see what results they get(i live 40 miles away from a pool store that tests water).
What test kit are you using and what color does it turn when you put in the indicator. If it turns pink you do have calcium present. If it turns blue you have non. If it turns any other color your chlorine levels are probably bleaching out the indicator.

[poolhelp101]

i use an aqua chem test kit. when i put the first solution in, it might turn just a hint of, a very little hint of yellow. then when you add the second solution it remains the same. my readings this morning are cl 5.0 ph 6.8 and ta still 150. it may take a while to get a water fountain, do i still just continue trying to aerate with the one jet or try to increase the ph another way? also, the pool has cleared quite alot, however it is still hazy. please advise and thank you

[mbar]

I would add a small amount of borax. Borax will raise your ph without raising the alk much. Just put a cup in and wait about 2 hours and test. You just want to take your ph to 7.0 - 7.2 no higher, so put a cup in at a time and wait at least 2 hours in between tests.

[poolhelp101]

i will get borax and do that right away.
new problem....this morning the pool was hazy...i began to vacuum the crap out of the bottom, slowly, but now the pool is completely clouded over again. cannot see the bottom. it didn't appear that anything was coming back thru the jets, but apparently it was??? should i shut the filter off and see if it will settle down and try vacuuming again or do i need to continue to run my filter 24/7? help!!!

[mbar]

One thing I don't like to recommend too often is to use a clarifier or a floc. If you use a flocculant, then you would add it to the pool, let it circulate for about 1 hour or two, or what is says on the bottle, and then turn the filter off for 24 hours. This will let everything fall to the bottom and then can be vacuumed to waste. The reason your pool probably clouded up is that the particles were so small that they just floated back into the water. Once the floc binds with the particles they get heavy and fall to the bottom of the pool. I like to vacuum to waste, cause then they are out of there, but you can vacuum to the filter and then backwash if water is expensive. Another thing that helps it to put a skimmer sock, or a cut pair of pantyhose on the skimmer basket to catch the fine particles before they go into the filter. THe first time I was dealing with metals, and using a pool store, my water was so messed up - too much calcium, too many chemicals they had me add, that it was just a mess. I drained 1/3 of the pool, refilled, added floc, let it sit for 48 hours, and vacuumed to waste. So after much money and many headaches I started to find out about pool chemicals and found this site. Since then I have stayed away from pool stores and my pool has never looked better. The philosophy is to put as little as you can in your water and keep it clean with Bleach. That is one of the reasons I would only use the floc when the water is not clearing and you have put some other chems in the pool. Now I add sequesterant (I have a well), bleach, borax, and baking soda if necessary. I add a little calcium to the pool (fiberglass pools seem to need some calcium to keep thier warranty). I try to keep to the philosophy of this forum - less is better when it comes to chemicals, and a good test kit is key so that you can take control of your own water.:)

[poolhelp101]

i quit the pool store in mid seaon last year after finding this forum. and this season i haven't added anything except the bleach until i had the metal problem, then i added the pool magnet plus. i don't understand what i'm doing wrong but apparently something. so do i now not add the borax until after i use the floc and try to get that cleared up first? sorry for yet another question. thanks

[mbar]

No, put in the borax now, you want to have your ph back at 7.0, to 7.2 for now. I just looked up pool magent plus and it lists it's ingreadient as "sodium hydrochlorite" which I looked up and said it was basically bleach here are the two links:
http://www.bioguard.com/msds/docs/1261041.PDF

http://www.answers.com/topic/sodium-hypochlorite

So I don't know why it says it will lift metal stains - it should lift any organic stains. It also says that if can cause cloudiness in the pool water. So I don't think you did anything wrong. I would stick to Jack's Magic the pink or purple stuff, or metal free, or metal magic - these are the ones I have tried and they all work. I will try to do some more research.

As for your main question - I would add the borax to get your ph up, and then do the flocculant. This way while the water is standing still it is not acidic. If after the water clears and you still have stains, then I will help you get rid of them. Don't worry, your pool will be fine soon:)

[waste]

Hi Marie, good to see you back! Hope your winter was good!!:) Got your pm on this and the MSDS's don't lie, that magnet is just bleach, I suppose that BIO-Guard thinks it's better to have the metals stain the walls, etc rather than be in suspension :p

I have all the faith in the world that you will be able to help PH101, but if I can help in any way, I'll keep my eye on this thread

[waterbear]

i use an aqua chem test kit. when i put the first solution in, it might turn just a hint of, a very little hint of yellow. then when you add the second solution it remains the same. my readings this morning are cl 5.0 ph 6.8 and ta still 150. it may take a while to get a water fountain, do i still just continue trying to aerate with the one jet or try to increase the ph another way? also, the pool has cleared quite alot, however it is still hazy. please advise and thank you
There is a documented problem with the hardness test in this kit. I believe the indicator is being bleached by high chlorine levels because if you add a drop or two of the thiosufate reagent from the total alkalinity test (the first reagent for that test) the hardness test develops the proper color. This test only seems to work properly if the chlorine is 3 ppm or less. Also this is NOT a calcium hardness test but a total (calcium and magnesium) hardness test so it really isn't that useful.

[waterbear]

No, put in the borax now, you want to have your ph back at 7.0, to 7.2 for now. I just looked up pool magent plus and it lists it's ingreadient as "sodium hydrochlorite" which I looked up and said it was basically bleach here are the two links:
http://www.bioguard.com/msds/docs/1261041.PDF

http://www.answers.com/topic/sodium-hypochlorite

So I don't know why it says it will lift metal stains - it should lift any organic stains. It also says that if can cause cloudiness in the pool water. So I don't think you did anything wrong. I would stick to Jack's Magic the pink or purple stuff, or metal free, or metal magic - these are the ones I have tried and they all work. I will try to do some more research.



Marie, that is the MSDS for the Pool Magnet demo kit chlorine solution, Not for Pool magnet plus. Here is the MSDS for that

http://www.bioguard.com/msds/docs/123450.pdf (http://www.bioguard.com/msds/docs/123450.pdf)

It is a phosponic acid derivative (HEDP) as Richard said above just like Jack's Magic, Metal Magic and about 95% of all the other seqeserants on the market.

I do not know exactly what the demo kit is for but It contains the bleach solution and an iron solution so I think it is to show how the pool magnet will prevent iron staining from high chlorine levels for dealers to use to sell the product.

[mbar]

Oh, my mistake, I just googled Pool Magnet Plus, and that was the one that come up first - at least that makes more sense:eek: Poolhelp, maybe if you can go somewhere and get your water tested, you can see if you have high calcium. But the floc should work. Aslo when using a metal sequestering agent they are highly acidic and can be what is keeping your ph low. You will need to add some borax to get it up to 7.0 - sometimes it takes a lot if there is a lot of acid in the product. So your ph may even be lower than 6.8. Keep us informed - these guys(waterbear, wate and chem geek) really know their chemistry:cool: Thanks :)

[poolhelp101]

i will get to a pool store to test my water, hopefully tomorrow. after about 16 hours with the floc, the pool has cleared about 20%. i can see the bottom of the pool in the shallow end and this end is not that clear but i can see the bottom. i cannot see the bottom at all in the deep end. cl is 5, ph is 6.8. should the pool be any clearer than it is now after adding the floc? do i turn the filter back on after the 24 hour wait period even if it isn't any clearer? and if i am to turn it back on, do i add the borax? anything else i need to do?

[mbar]

You should have put the borax in before the floc. It is not good to let the acidic water lay on the vinyl liner. Since you keep testing 6.8, and used a lot of stain treatment, the ph may even be lower than 6.8. If it were my pool I would vacuum to waste what you can on the bottom. This will probably stir up some sediment, don't worry. After you vacuum to waste, add more fill water, ADD BORAX, keep filter running, check ph and don't stop ADDING BORAX until you reach a ph of at least 7.0 - leave 2 hours in between tests. When you get the ph back up, turn the filter off and let the water settle. You should still have enough floc in there to continue the process. Leave the filter off till you see more clearing of the water, even if you go to 24 hours. THen vacuum to waste again, or filter if the water is too expensive. I would really try to vacuum to waste to get it out of there - make sure you backwash the filter well if you just vacuum to filter. If the water is still cloudy, turn the filter off over night. Keep doing this until the water clears. The important thing is to get the ph back up to 7, the alkalinity back down (keep your return jets bubbling on the water as much as you can till you get the fountain). Get your water checked, and post numbers. Once you get the water rebalanced, you will be fine - Something is suspended in the water making it cloudy, It will take time to get it all filtered out - you just need some patience. You don't want to shock yet in case it is metals that are suspended in the water, that will fall out if the chlorine gets too high. It will just take time, but get the ph up:D

[poolhelp101]

i did get the ph to 7.2 before i put the floc in.
right now, the pool has cleared more, i can see the drain now.
in 3 hours the pool will have set for 24 hrs. i am going to start to vacuum, which i do dread cause i just know it's gonna cloud it up more. but i realize i just have to keep at it. the only reason i was not wanting to vauum to waste was because i loose so much water and then i will have to refill, no expense involved, just worry that i will add more metals and be back having to deal with that issue. after i do this and have to start adding water, should i add something to treat for the metals then too? and if i am to treat for metals do i also add bleach and borax at the same time too? thank you all so much for staying with me and helping to advise me.

p.m. i vacummed to waste, added more water, bleach and borax. cl now 6, ph 7.0. have the jet turned up to bubble. i didn't add anything for metals as i was unsure whether to add at the same time as the borax and bleach and i have shut the filter off now hoping it will settle some more. .

[waterbear]

If you added floc and you can vacuum to waste it is a good idea to do so. The floc can clog up your filter.

[poolhelp101]

i left filter off about 12 hours, some sediment in the bottom, pool still cloudy but could see the drain. i began to vacuum to waste...but i had only done a couple of vacuum strokes and then all of a sudden you couldn't see the drain and it was very cloudy. the sediment must be suspended in the water and the movement clouded the water??? i need to add more water also. ch 6.0, ph 6.8, ta 150. i have added one cup of borax and will recheck in 2 hours. do i add a maintenance dose of metal out while adding water? any suggestions on getting out whatever is suspended in my water?? HELP please!
also..there is a hint of green to the color of the water. is that because where i added more water last night and it has added metals to it again?? shew!

[mbar]

Hi, sorry I was away from a computer. I know that this is tricky - I would add a maintenance dose of metal sequester, and add water. It is ok to add more metal sequesterer than it says. You should not have any algae, as your chlorine is fine. I wouldn't worry about the green for now. It is normal for the water to cloud again after vacuuming to waste when there is a lot of sediment in the pool. Now I would leave the filter on 24/7, and use the skimmer sock - you can also put in some DE to make your sand filter more efficient, add 1 cup to a bucket of water and mix it up - add it directly to the filter. If your filter pressure doesn't go up, you can add another cup. Just make sure you add it to water before you put it in the skimmer. Then just let it keep filtering - it will clear up. Make sure you keep an eye on the filter pressure, and backwash as needed. If you backwash, you have to add more DE if you are using it, as it will backwash out. I know this is confusing, but it will clear - you just have to have some patience. If you don't see any clearing in a day or two, then we will try again. Just a though, are you sure your filter is working properly? Just trying to cover all bases

[waterbear]

Poolhelp,
The most important thing you need right now is a big bottle of POP (Pool Owner Patience). Apply liberally to yourself and then continue to follow Mbar's advice!:D

[poolhelp101]

thanks to both of you.
i really do have POP
i know i ask too many questions, but i just want to make sure i understand
and follow what you guys say.
when i encounter a problem, i just ask you guys then wait for you to tell me what to do. pool has cleared more this evening. i see that i am going to need help with the stains, but i'll ask you how to take care of that once i get it cleared up.

[waterbear]

Not a thing wrong with asking too many questions! It would be wrong to not ask enough questions to understand what you need to do! Glad to hear the pool is clearing. When you are ready to tackle the stains we will walk you through it. Mbar is a whiz at stains!:D (And I know a few things about them also.)

[poolhelp101]

thank you so much.
the pool is a little clearer tonight however the ph has dropped once again. it's back to 6.8 so i have added the borax again. also i have been having to add water each night due to vacuuming to waste. i am concerned that i may be putting metals back into the pool, so is it okay to add a maintenance dose every night? tonight would make 3 nights in a row i have had to add water and for the past two nights i have added 8 oz. of the metal out. you think it is okay to add it or should i add it again tonight as i am refilling? thank you

[waterbear]

The sequesterant itself could be causing the pH drop. You probably have enough in the water at this point to take care of any metals you might be introducing with your fill water. If you have not overdosed on the sequaterant the pH should start to rise of it's own accord in a few days time.

[mbar]

I was away for a couple of days, and I was just wondering how is the pool doing? Waterbear is right, the sequestering agent will lower the ph a little, and I would think that you have enough in there now - so is there still a lot of stuff fall to the bottom of the pool? If not you can stop vacuuming to waste - You also may want to try to turn the filter off every night to see if more settles out. Let me know how you are doing:)

[poolhelp101]

it has cleared alot now. still some falling to the bottom too. i am going to vacuum more tonight, but i will on filter now.
you can see all the brown stains. i did try a vitamin c tablet and the stains will rub off. i need your advise now on how to try to get rid of the stains.
thanks for all your help!!