New Pool owner water chemistry

[sammm]

I've been reading the forums and trying to figure this out. I'm getting there, but still not sure and have much to learn. I tested my water myself ( I don't have a calcium or CYA test yet), and things seem OK to me. I took a water sample to my LPS and had them test. Here are their numbers:

FAC - 2.5
PH - 7.4
TA - 100
Calcium - 440
CYA - 100

I asked about the calcium and CYA (seem high) and he said the only way to lower them is to partially drain the pool. Are those high enough that I should worry and/or drain?

The pool is an IG concrete 17' x 32' rectangular play pool. 4' deep on the ends and 5' in the middle. It has an inline chlorinator and a DE filter. Water temp is currently around 70-72 degrees. Using a volume calculator I came up with ~18,000 gallons. Thanks in advance for any help!

[CarlD]

When you say you have an in-line chlorinator I'm assuming you have the kind you add Tri-Chlor pucks to. If, in fact, you mean you have a Salt Water Generator of chlorine, then what follows is NOT relevant to you.

He's right. Unbelievable that I'm saying that but it's true.

I would STRONGLY suggest you drain about half the water out of the pool and refill. Then turn off your inline-chlorinator and stop using chlorine pucks. Your CYA is excessively high and the pucks keep adding more and more CYA.

Drain half and CYA AND Calcium should be cut in half. CYA at 50 is a good number. Calcium at 220 is near the low end for a concrete pool (200-400) but OK.

You should now chlorinate with plain bleach or liquid chlorine (same thing, different package). Or make the break and replace the inline-chlorinator with a Salt-Water Generator for chlorine (see folks? I'm not against SWGs).

Using bleach you may see your pH start to rise. You may not (the pucks are VERY acid!) If so, just use muriatic acid to lower it.

But if you decide NOT to drain and refill, you will need to maintain your chlorine level between 10 and 15 ppm (I believe). That's hard to measure unless you have a FAS-DPD test kit for chlorine. Your calcium will still be high but it may come down as you do backwashing and replacing of water.

But if FAC is your chlorine level you are about to get in big trouble. You need to shock your pool NOW. I would add 4 gallons of regular bleach--5.25% ( just to get your chlorine to 12 or 13, at a minimum--which is your maintenance level. But I would seriously suggest you add 8 gallons of regular bleach to actually shock it.

IMHO

[waterbear]

He's right. Unbelievable that I'm saying that but it's true.


IMHO

Carl, It not the first time you've agreed with a pool store guy!:D

Sammm,
Carl is, as usual, right on the money. Listen to him!:)

[sammm]

Thanks for the replies. Carl, you are correct that my chlorinator uses the pucks. Not a SWG.

Just so I've got this straight, once I drain the pool I should stop using the pucks permanently and switch to bleach. Correct?

You also said if I decide not to drain and refill. What are the pros/cons (I'm guessing mostly cons) in that method?

Thanks very much for the help, I really appreciate it!

[CarlD]

If it were me, I'd drain half the water and refill. You can also drain 1/4 of the water and refill--your CYA should come to 80 then.

Aylad lives 'way down South and she finds she needs to run her CYA at 80. Otherwise the sunshine and other stuff eats her residual chlorine too fast. So by running 80ppm and her FC in the 8-10ppm range for normal swimming, she doesn't have to keep adding excessive chlorine.

OTOH, she has to test to a higher level, but that trade-off works for her. I'm in a cooler climate and the sun is less intense so I prefer to run CYA in the 30-50 range, no higher.

[sammm]

I should stop using the pucks permanently and switch to bleach.


way down South and she finds she needs to run her CYA at 80. Otherwise the sunshine and other stuff eats her residual chlorine too fast. So by running 80ppm and her FC in the 8-10ppm range for normal swimming, she doesn't have to keep adding excessive chlorine.


I'm starting to understand now. But back to one of my questions (shown above). You suggest to ditch the pucks totally (after I drain) and switch to bleach, right? Thanks again Carl!

[CarlD]

Yes. Pucks are NOT a permanent chlorination solution, despite installations of in-line chlorinators. They will ALWAYS add lots of stabilizer (I think Chem_Geek computes that for each 1ppm of FC they add .6ppm of CYA). They will ALWAYS add lots of acid, driving your pH down.

Bleach adds NOTHING and is pH-neutral. Pool store guys will tell you "Liquid Chlorine raises your TDS and that's really bad." Nonsense. Bleach adds saltwater to your pool, and after YEARS of using it your salt level will STILL be far, FAR below what is required for a salt-water chlorinator.

BTW, TDS (total dissolved solids) should ONLY be a concern when you have a water problem AND you have exhausted all the usually solutions. That almost never happens here.

[sammm]

I've finally had it with granular shock and chlorine pucks and the like. After getting some green algae growing I've decided to make the switch to the BBB method.

I have just about drained off 12" of water at this point (since my CYA and Calcium levels were high - see earlier posts). Should I refill to normal levels first before I add some bleach the kill off the algae? I'm guessing the correct thing to do is refill, test the water and act accordingly.

[GraceByDesign]

Get some bleach in there as you are refilling. Otherwise you are just going to get into a worse mess. CarlD suggested 4 or even 8 gallons (to shock) of regular bleach and it sounds like you need to shock now!
You are going to need to shock to kill the algae anyway, might as well do it as you are filling.

It sounds like you are also in need of a GOOD test kit. The Taylor K-2006 is one option, or Leslies sells their own brand with Taylor reagents. There are a couple other good ones out there, too. Take charge of your pool! :)

[sammm]

Get some bleach in there as you are refilling. Otherwise you are just going to get into a worse mess. CarlD suggested 4 or even 8 gallons (to shock) of regular bleach and it sounds like you need to shock now!


Should I dump in 4 gallons of bleach to the existing water while refilling? Will it hurt if I pour in the pool directly, since my water level is below my skimmers right now. A good test kit is on my immediate to-get list. I have an un-opened box of shock to return and will swap for a test kit then!

[Watermom]

In your pool, each 3 quart jug of 6% bleach is going to raise your chlorine level by 2.5 ppm. It is OK to add bleach while you are filling, but just be sure to have some way to circulate it like stirring it around with a clean broom or something. Or maybe pouring it slowly in front of your hose as you are filling. After you refill and get things circulating, we'll need an updated cya reading to better advise you.

[sammm]

After draining 12" of water (approx. 1/4), my CYA readings are still off the charts. (I bought a good test kit at my LPS) My calcium has dropped to ~220 or so. The rest of my readings look great (as does the water). I have turned-off the in-line chlorinator and using the BBB method.

FC - 3
TC - 3
PH - 7.4
TA - 120
Calcium - 220
CYA - >100
Water Temp - ~80F

I guess the answer is to drain some more and try again. What are the downsides to a high CYA? I realize I would need to maintain a higher level of FC. Will the pool use more chlorine as well? More frequent maintenance?

Thanks to everyone for their help! I am learning, slowly but surely.

[Watermom]

Actually, some people run a high cya pool on purpose. One of my co-moderators, Aylad, does. I'll ask her to take a look at this thread.

[aylad]

What are the downsides to a high CYA? I realize I would need to maintain a higher level of FC. Will the pool use more chlorine as well? More frequent maintenance?



I run a high CYA pool, as mentioned before. I live in Louisiana, and have no shade at all on my pool. I find that by running my CYA at 80-90ppm, I actually have LESS pool maintenance to do. While a CYA level that high requires a higher level of residual chlorine to be effective, I find that I lose a LOT less chlorine to the sun daily. With lower CYA levels, I have to add bleach daily and still have a problem maintaining a good base level. With higher CYA levels, even in the hottest part of the summer I only add chlorine about twice a week.

There are other places on this forum where CYA levels have been debated, and one of the major negative arguments is the possibility that CYA causes cancer. May be true, may not be true. My hamburger meat, plastic wrap, children's sippy cups, the sun, soda, and many other things I use are supposed to cause cancer, too. I figure if I'm destined to have it, it'll happen. Until then, I'm enjoying my pool!!

Janet

[sammm]

I run a high CYA pool, as mentioned before. I live in Louisiana, and have no shade at all on my pool.

Thanks for the info Janet, I appreciate it. Living in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, I know all about sunshine and heat. My pool is on the east side of my house and only sees shade in the late afternoon.
I'll monitor my chlorine usage and see how it goes. With your CYA being between 80-90ppm, do you keep your FC between 5-10ppm (using the Best Guess CYA Chart) ?

[aylad]

Thanks for the info Janet, I appreciate it. Living in the Dallas/Ft. Worth area, I know all about sunshine and heat. My pool is on the east side of my house and only sees shade in the late afternoon.
I'll monitor my chlorine usage and see how it goes. With your CYA being between 80-90ppm, do you keep your FC between 5-10ppm (using the Best Guess CYA Chart) ?

Your weather conditions are very similar to mine, as we are about 2-3 hours apart in distance (although I think you get more rain than we do). I chlorinate up to the 8-10 range, but I don't let it fall below 5 before I add more. Usually is every 3 days or so, barring anything out of the ordinary in the pool.

Janet