pump priming above pool

[mizzouguy]

I have a pool that the pump and filter sit about 4 feet above the pool decking because of a retaining wall and it was the best fit for the pump location.

Anyway, it takes forever and is a pain in the rear to get it primed because the water drains back into the pool so easily. I literally have to fill the line going to the main drain and turn off the one to the skimmer to start it. Once that was starts going after a few mintues and then have to slowly start opening the line to the skimmer.

Anyone else have this problem? Any solutions to help? I was thinking about some sort of check valve or something???

thanks for any suggestions!

(33k inground liner SWG)

[Mike_in_NJ]

Yup, check valve between the pump and the pool. Like this one:

http://www.poolplaza.com/P-JDY-56-4084.html

(no endorsement of product, vendor, or pricing one way or the other implied)

[mizzouguy]

Kewl, thanks for the link.

My only question with using a check valve: I usually put the hose in the pipes that go to the drain and skimmer to get them as full of water as I can. Is there going to be a way to do this if I have a check valve in the path? If not, I don't think I'll ever get it primed.

[Poconos]

I pondered your statement in your original post on this thread about filling the pipes wondering how you could do that. Then it hit me...the obvious...you must have valves in the skimmer and MD lines just at the ground surface but still about 4' below the pump. Close them and fill the 4' height of pipe however long it is. Otherwise the water would just flow back into the pool. Is this true? If so the check valve mentioned would have to go at about the same level as your manual valves. I also assume you fill the pipes with a hose in the pump basket? One comment, you have some kind of air leak somewhere if the water eventually drains out of the pump and lines. Didn't say what kind of filter you have but one source of an air leak could be a multi-port valve on a sand filter. A tiny leak (for air) to the waste line under a slight vacuum. If applicable, try capping that line and see if the water still drains out. Simple fix if true, ball valve in the waste line out of the filter. Could even be a tiny leak in the pump strainer cover. When the pump is running the cover is pulled tightly by the suction, when off you lose a lot of that suction and may have a slight leak.
Hope this helps.
Al

[duraleigh]

I pondered your statement in your original post on this thread about filling the pipes wondering how you could do that. Then it hit me...the obvious...you must have valves in the skimmer and MD lines just at the ground surface but still about 4' below the pump. Close them and fill the 4' height of pipe however long it is. Otherwise the water would just flow back into the pool. Is this true? If so the check valve mentioned would have to go at about the same level as your manual valves. I also assume you fill the pipes with a hose in the pump basket? One comment, you have some kind of air leak somewhere if the water eventually drains out of the pump and lines. Didn't say what kind of filter you have but one source of an air leak could be a multi-port valve on a sand filter. A tiny leak (for air) to the waste line under a slight vacuum. If applicable, try capping that line and see if the water still drains out. Simple fix if true, ball valve in the waste line out of the filter. Could even be a tiny leak in the pump strainer cover. When the pump is running the cover is pulled tightly by the suction, when off you lose a lot of that suction and may have a slight leak.
Hope this helps.
Al

Hi, mizzou,

I have almost the exact setup. before I respond, read Al's post carefully. He's saying that without valves in the skimmer and MD lines AT THE WATER LEVEL the water you put into the strainer basket with the hose is simply running back into the pool....doing you no good.......... I agree.

Do you have those valves?:confused:

The second part of his post sort of assumes you can't hold prime with the pump off....that your prime eventually leaks back out...i.e. air in the strainer basket. I am assuming something else....that you only lose prime when you open the strainer basket to empty it. Tell us which is the case.:confused:

Help us clarify those two things.....I might have an answer for you that works reasonably well.:) :)

[mizzouguy]

Thanks for the replies.
Ok, I have two lines coming up out of the ground, each with it's own shutoff valve. The 2 then go up a few inches and combine into 1 which then goes horizontally into the pump. I do NOT have any other valves at the skimmer, etc.... So yes, when I put the hose into the pump basket...the water goes right back into the pool. I shut off the valve going to the skimmer (the one mentioned above) and run the hose for a while and then shut the door to the pump real fast and turn it on. Within 5 mintues I have water coming in and then I slowly open the valve to the skimmer up. Again, this takes several minutes. Finally both of them are flowing.

As far as keeping prime: I have automatic shutoff every night so I'm not losing prime as it is always pumping fine in the morning. I only have the problem if I open the pump basket....and I was told not to shut off the pump when turning it to backwash so I wouldn't have to prime it again. (ALTHOUGH, I'm not really sure that it would actually lose prime....I've never tested it). And yes, the direction on the filter say not to move the lever to backwash, etc unless the pump is off.....

Hopefully, that helps clear it up a little bit. I guess it's really not that big of a deal, I just didn't know if everyone else has the same problem or if there was an easy fix.

thanks again!

[duraleigh]

Mizzou,

First, your original issue.

Try this:

Stop your pump. Then close both suction lines by shutting off the ball valves.

7:10AM CDT...Mizzou, I forgot a very important line last night...you need to close your pressure side valves at this point as well. In other words all pipes to and from the filter (except backwash) are valved closed. Sorry, I forgot this


Next, remove the strainer basket lid. (it might be a little tight...it'll still have a momentary vacuum on it. If you're plumbed like I am, the strainer basket lid should come off but the water shouldn't drain out of the pump.

Remove the basket and clean it. Replace basket and the lid.

Now with the lid back correctly in place, you should be able to open all valves and still retain water in the basket.

Your prime should be almost immediate since the little air that has come into the system is quickly removed from the basket.

Let us know if that works. If not, tell us what happened, I may have another thought. Long primes are very annoying and not beneficial to your pump.

Secondly:


..and I was told not to shut off the pump when turning it to backwash so I wouldn't have to prime it again.

Ouch!!, I wouldn't do that. That can't be good for the multi-port valve. I don't think you'll lose prime if you shut off the pump first.

[Poconos]

On the MP valves, at least Hayward, the gasket sits in channels and is glued there. The spring force on the movable valve part holds it in these grooves too. Problem with switching with the pump on is if the glue has let go in some place then the rush of water can lift the gasket out of the channels and it will be destroyed.
Al

[waste]

Hey all! Wanted to reply last night, but the weekly 'safety meeting' at my boss' house went into extra innings, so I got home late and had limited 'useful consiousness' ;) To aid in the priming of a set up like the one described, close the MD line shove a garden hose (wrapped with a rag - to make a better seal) into the suction port in the skimmer. This will take 2 people; 1 to hold the rag wrapped hose in the line, and the other to start the pump when the water arrives. Then you can open the MD valve slightly until the air is out of the line- this should save you a few minutes. * Trying to do this w/ only 1 person may result in a rag becoming lodged in the skimmer line :)

7:10AM CDT...Mizzou, I forgot a very important line last night...you need to close your pressure side valves at this point as well. In other words all pipes to and from the filter (except backwash) are valved closed. Sorry, I forgot this
Dave, why? You may drain the filter down to the multiport outlet (if there is an air leak, as per AL), but shouldn't syphon the pump's prime with the suction lines closed.

Secondly:
Ouch!!, I wouldn't do that. That can't be good for the multi-port valve. I don't think you'll lose prime if you shut off the pump first.[/QUOTE]

I agree, most certainly a BAD idea, unless you want to keep buying multiports, or the components that will get ruined by changing the valve when it's pressurized.

(If any of this is bad, wrong or stupid - blame it on the hangover) - Waste

[duraleigh]

Hi, Ted,

Long time....no talk!!:)

Well, with the loop open to atmospheric pressure AND the pump and filter ABOVE the pool, the water drains out thru the multiport valve until it gets below that level in the filter. It is, of course, sucking air thru the strainer basket and draining the pump at the same time.

My intake from the pump into the MP valve is located about 3" higher than the MP valve outlet. That means by the time atomospheric pressure is allowed to enter the MP outlet and stop the outflow, the water level in the filter is now below the line from the filter to the pump so the water can no longer flow back to refill the pump and strainer basket.

Man, that was a long-winded explanation!!. And I haven't attended a safety meeting in weeks!!:D :D

Mizzou may not have this same config on his MP but thought I'd include it to cover all the bases. It'll be interesting to see if this solves his issue. It's a pain opening and closing the five valves on mine but better than waiting five minutes to get a prime and then having to wait for the pump to blow the air out of the filter.

[waste]

Dave, always a pleasure to hear from you and get your take on things. Yes, given the set-up you describe, the effluent valves would need to be closed I just learned how to play with size and color - sorry for shouting :)
I keep forgetting that the pools I work on, usually ones my company has built, aren't the 'only' way to do things. I'm sure that many of the pool owners here fail to realize that thier pool system isn't necessarily the only one, and that other people may have a completely different setup' (in my case, I'm usually picturing the last pool I worked on for whichever issue is in question)
Mizzo, if you decide to add the check valve and if you have the room, put a union (some folks call them a 'quick disconnect'), on the pool side of the check valve - it will make 'blowing' the lines in the fall easier.