Looking to partition IG pool

[ChuckD]

This is a shot-in-the-dark, but here goes. We have a 17x38 vinyl IG and a brave four-year-old girl. In a previous lifetime, I was a lifeguard and Red Cross swimming instructor trainer (meaning, I taught the teachers how to teach) and am now going through the process of teaching her how to swim.
(I'm throwing some other info here because I think it offers something to those with pools and kids and how to handle it. I'd love to see another subject here at PoolForums just on pool safety.)

I've done my best to get my daughter to understand what this pool's about and how you have to respect it, and she's responded very well by demonstrating she understands it can be something very dangerous. She's a smart kid <shameless gloat> and shows a lot of caution around it.

Last year I got her to break away from the steps with the use of 'swimmies' (which I otherwise dispise) but she didn't get comfortable with going underwater. This will probably be the year she does since the swimmies are going to turn up 'missing'. I've whetted (wetted?) her appetite and hopefully inspired her to venture into the 3-1/2' shallow end on her own.

And that's where the dilemma come in. This is a typical pool where the rather slippery deep end comes up quickly and has caught me by surprise on ocassion. What I'd like to have is some kind of barrier to partition the shallow end off into a large kind of playpen for her. Something that would be safe on a vinyl liner as well.
Anyone ever hear about such a thing?

[CanuckPool]

why not ropes and floats, it will act as a visual barrier so that she knows where not to go past. Maybe having a physical barrier will not teach her to respect the deep end as it will be a safety blanket for her (ie. swimmies/arm floaters) And also being an ex-lifeguard and parent ;-), I am sure you don't let her out of your sight when she is around the pool.

[ChuckD]

I almost said 'it goes without saying...', but it can't be stated enough: she is absolutely never out of our sight around the pool. I've seen, many times, how quickly a toddler can get into trouble and it always left me shaken, even long before becoming a parent. I've pulled them out of waterfronts when their parents were within 10 to 15 feet, but briefly distracted by something. When a child's in or near the water, nothing else matters!

Anyway, I'd considered the ropes and floats thing, and still may do it, but what concerns me is how slick the bottom can be. As I mentioned, I've been surprised a couple times by the start of the slope and briefly lost my footing. An adult could probably reach up and grab the rope if needed. not so sure about a child. I'd like to assume myself, or my wife, a borderline swimmer, would always be there to grab her, but this would just be an added layer of protection.

[waste]

Chuck, I'm sorry to say that the rope may be your only choice. What I think you're thinking of would be like a 'baby gate' for use on stairwells, doorframes, etc. but would have to cover ~17' (if you have a Grecian pool, the width is probably 16' 6") and be at least 3' high (a little higher than the gates I have in my house) - also it would have to be constructed of materials which wouldn't be harmed by the pool water (ie, any metal parts would have to be SS - & good grade;) ).

I just had a small brainstorm - it might (!) be possible to make your own with the plastic mesh construction fencing (it should be the diamond style to prevent entrapment, though toes, fingers, hair may still be at risk even with the diamond style) secured to the wall with suction cups (or bathroom plungers) - I could see 3 cups per side attached to 1" pvc pipe to which the fencing is attached(on the sides)
Other possibility is using a safety rope to which said fencing is threaded onto (interspaced with the floats) and wighted on the bottom.
(I realse that there are some flaws with both methods, but the idea is only .5 hrs old - and I'm not an engineer:) ) *

Back to the safety rope - the, now defunct, NSPI required safety ropes to be installed 1' back from the change in grade (presumably to prevent nonswimmers from being able to accidently 'slide' under them) .


* (I know there are a lot of smart, knowledgable and ingenious folks here, let's all get together - design this thing and make some $ while increasing pool safety!! - needless to say the poolforum would get a cut off of the profits - maybe we can we can earn enough to keep it going forever!! :D

[CanuckPool]

you're on the right track waste, but anything that could have the potential of snagging, or getting tangled in seems very dangerous to me. What you almost need is a solid wall that has no holes/loops or anything that can potentially wedge a body part into.

maybe what you need is a floating play pen

http://blog.theavclub.tv/?p=479

[CanuckPool]

or what if you stuck some sort of grip type pad that helped keep your traction at the point that it feels slippery, it would provide warning that you are close to the edge and also allow you the traction to get yourself out... that coupled with the ropes and floats could be effective.

[CanuckPool]

Here you go, stick a whole bunch of these down

http://www.bedbathstore.com/bubblebathmat.html

[waste]

you're on the right track waste, but anything that could have the potential of snagging, or getting tangled in seems very dangerous to me. What you almost need is a solid wall that has no holes/loops or anything that can potentially wedge a body part into.

maybe what you need is a floating play pen

http://blog.theavclub.tv/?p=479
CP, this is similar to something I saw before (the avclub link) but not quite the same, do you know anything about the other?? I's a great idea and think my boss could sell quite a few of them (depending on how well they actually work)

As for the 'solid' barrier, you'd, in effect, create 2 ~separate pools. While I certainly agree that anything which could cause entrapment is a NO (big no ;) ), theere has to be some material (mesh) that will not have the entrapment problem.
Also, a solid barrier would mean customizing it to each pool, which is impractical. Another potential problem is that the 'barrier' shouldn't reach the surface and should be easily cleaned of any debris that it catches. As I said, my 'brainstorm' is to be the begining of creating a 'workable' device. However, I appreciate the input and welcome more (I'm thinking a new topic is in order for this... I'll start one and link it with an edit - no need to take away from ChuckD's thread)

[CanuckPool]

I am not sure how they work or if they work well, here is the link to the actual product.

http://www.walmart.com/catalog/product.do?product_id=4722068#Features+%26+Specifi cations

[ChuckD]

Mon Dieu!
I turn my back to actually get some work done and a brainstorm breaks out!
And not to worry about thread hijack. This is more about getting some general thoughts on the situation and wild ideas are welcome. We can get complacent about the idea that we always keep our eyes on the little ones, but I work in the network and computer security field and we believe in layers of protection.

Thanks for the ideas. Actually I had plastic snow fencing on my mind (for other reasons) but I'm also concerned about entanglement. Borrowing from what's already serving a similar purpose I think of baby cribs and deck/stair railings with their vertical members (no wider than 4"). It would lend itself to rolling, or telescoping for removal/storage. Made out of PVC, it would probably be pretty light and withstand the water pretty well.


Hmmm...

[waste]

I believe that safety should always be the FIRST concern!!!! (I too was a lifeguard and once, thankfully only once, had to recessitate a ~8 yr old girl, water safety is something that CAN'T BE OVERSTRESSED!!!!).

I did start an auxillary thread here, in hopes that this idea might become a reality and make the pools a safer place (sure, I'd upgrade to an 'all wheel drive vehicle'), but I'd hope to support not only the forum, but give a large part of the proceeds to 'swimming education', ie @ the YMCA or other groups that need the funding to educate young swimmers and teach them the 'rules' of water safety and how to swim.

[ivyleager]

Seems to me that any partition would most likely not pass code/safety regs, as legs or arms could be ensnared or tangled in anything that would be under the water surface, such as a pickett fencing or slat idea. Ropes also for that matter. So using that as an assumption, how about putting a board-type barrier ONLY along the bottom of the pool just before the deep end slope, as well as the rope at the water line? So, design would need to be telescoping to stay firm against the sides? I don't know. However, it will need to be aasy on the liner, both at the bottom and along the sides.

Just a brainstorming idea. Throwing it on the wall and seeing what sticks.

CaryB

[CanuckPool]

The pool my kids learned how to swim had a tot dock, it was essentially a metal table, think of a 5'x5' square metal table about 2' tall made of stainless steel that sat at the bottom of the pool. The kids that were too small to keep their heads above water stood on the dock and took turns with the swimming instructor. The top of the docks made of that diamond plate steel so it had some grip. I dunno if this design could be modified into something or maybe not.

[CanuckPool]

oops I should have posted this in the other thread...

but can you tell me why ropes and floats that is set back 1' from the beginning of the slope wouldnt be the ideal solution? Cheap, easy to take off, easy to store, minimal damage to pool. Already is approved by various safety codes.

I assume your child can walk around in the shallow end. If she knows to stay behind the ropes then she should stay relatively far away from the deep end.

Its like the fireplace glass, your kid makes the mistake of touching it once (ouch) and they learn to respect it and never touch it again. I think the number one safety device is the brain. IMHO... I think a solid barrier might a person a little more "casual" in their awareness of what their child is doing... I'm not implying you... but if such a device existed in general.

[Poconos]

Whatever is decided on you will have to keep it on the pool bottom. Perhaps a section of PVC pipe filled with cement and weighted down at the ends with sandbags? The net or whatever can be attached to the pipe and that would keep the net on the bottom and stretched tight.
Al