Need Pump Advice, Please

[PopcornGirl]

Hey, I just realized we can play with the font on this board!

Sorry, back to my questions...:o

Ok, I have a 12,000 gallon, in-ground, gunite pool that is almost 6 years old.
My pool pump is (was?) a Pac Fab Challenger 1 HP -- also about 6 years old.
Tonight, suddenly, my pump stopped pulling water.
Obviously, this seems like a blockage of some sort as it happened rather suddenly and I am going to get that ruled out.
We tried inserting a hose (wrapped with a towel) into the pipe from the pump end (reverse flow direction) and turned it on full-blast to see if that would dislodge anything. A few leaves came out of the skimmer, but that's all. water flow from the hose, out of the skimmer was pretty decent considering our water pressure here is not wonderful.
However, even though some water came through BOTH the skimmer and the main drains, when we tried to restart the pump, NO water came through!
Not even a trickle!
I tried switching fully to skimmer, fully to main drain, and various levels in between. All to no avail. :(
My pump "sounds" the same -- there is no difference in noise -- but it is not pulling anything!
YES, I cleared the pump basket of debris & YES, my filter cartridges are clean. We took them out last weekend and soaked them and sprayed them till they were almost white again, so it can't be my filter, can it???

My questions are these:
1) What do YOU think is going on?
2) Any suggestions??
3) If I do need a new pump, how much (ballpark) should I expect to pay for pump and installation?
I still consider myself a bit of a novice at all this pool stuff and I do not want to get ripped off. Money is tight and I need to go into this as well-informed as I can!
Thanks so much in advance for any help you can give!

[mas985]

If the pump is not pulling any water, it is not pushing it either. It could be a return side blockage. What is the PSI of the filter? If it is high, then it is a return side blockage, if it is very low, then the problem could be with the pump, assuming you have ruled out the a suction side blockage. Also, is there air in the pump skimmer basket?

As for a new pump, that will depend on what you need it to do. I assume since it is a 1 HP pump that you are not running a spa or water feature with it. What about a automatic cleaner, suction or pressure? If the answer to all is no, then I would go with as small a pump as possible to save a bit on electricity. A 3/4 HP is probably all you need and two speed will offer even more savings.

[PopcornGirl]

The PSI on the filter is reading "0," so I don't think that's it.

Yes, there is air in the pump skimmer basket. The only water is what is backwashing into the basket from the pump when I shut it off (about 3 inches?). Otherwise, the pump basket is completely empty. I'm not even getting a trickle!

I don't have a spa or any water features and the only automatic cleaner I have is a Kreepy Krauly which simply runs off the pull from the skimmer line. I have not felt the 1 HP to be a particularly large drain on my energy bill; there really doesn't seem to be much difference in our bills when it's running a lot or not. The prices I am seeing online are around 300-350 dollars; does that sound about right? What can I expect to pay for installation (ball park)?
Thanks again!
PS: I had JUST opened my pool and spent all last week getting it perfectly balanced. It is clear & sparkling! So I REALLY don't want to wait too long to get this taken care of! ;)

[Poconos]

Just possibly enough crud got past the pump basket to goop up the impeller. Hair can wreak havoc with impellers. Make absolutely sure the pump cannot power up and reach into the impeller area with your finger(s). Open all switches including the circuit breaker for the pump. With the basket removed you will see the hole leading to the pump chamber. The impeller should be right on the other side of the basket housing and the vanes should be clean and free of debris.
Best guess for now.
Al

[PopcornGirl]

UPDATE:
Ok, we pulled out the cartridges and closed the filter back up and powered it on again to see if we had bad cartridges -- STILL no pull AT ALL.

Then, we carefully removed the housing around the impeller (I tried to reach into it with my fingers, but my hand was too large for the opening). I really believed that it could be a clogged impeller -- it made perfect sense! -- but it was totally clear! :(

So, I guess I am looking at a new pump. I have seen several models that are comparable, price-wise, but I don't know the reputations of these brands.
Do any of you have an opinion or preference between these:

* HAYWARD 1 HP NORTHSTAR SWIMMING POOL PUMP SP4007X10NS
* Waterway Champion 1 HP CHAMPS-110
* Hayward Super Pump 1 HP ( #SP2607X10)
* Pentair Super Flo 1 HP Pool Pump
OR can you suggest another one????

[Poconos]

One other thing to try is to fire up the pump and dump water in the pump basket with a garden hose. See if it pumps out. If it does then you probably have a suction side air leak since you already ruled out a suction side blockage. Pumps are pretty simple. If they run, they will pump. May be noisy, may leak, may get hot, but they pump.
Al

[PopcornGirl]

Poconos,
I *think* I have already done that, but let me run it by you...
When you say to put water in the pump basket with a hose, do I need to leave the lid off and keep pouring water in WHILE I turn on the pump?
The reason why I ask is because I thought the lid HAD to be on the pump basket before I started it. Last night, I poured a pitcher of water into the pump basket, replaced the lid, and then turned on the pump. But even before I switched the pump on, the water had drained away -- presumably to the filter line??? -- so when I started the pump up, there was only about 3 inches of water in the pump basket.
Are you suggesting (and can I?) to leave the lid OFF of the pump basket and start it up with the hose pouring water in? If so, I have not done that.
I WILL say that every time I turn the pump on, it sucks the 3 inches of water out and when I shut it off, the same 3 inches of water back-flows back into the pump basket.
Does this make any sense?
I really appreciate your help!

[CanuckPool]

I'm no expert, but can't you shut off your suction valve from your pool to your pump and then fill the basket with hose water, that should prevent your water from rushing back out of the pump. Then, as you turn your pump on open the suction valve. Maybe you can even open the valve slowly to see if your pump will pull and continue pulling as you open it all the way. Sounds like it can't get a prime due to air in the system. OR maybe there is some sort of disconnect between the motor and the impeller.

[CanuckPool]

or what if you shut off your main drain and leave your skimmer line open, then try running your hose into your skimmer pushing water into your pump, hopefully keeping the pump basket filled enough to get you pump to pull anything.

[Poconos]

Yes...leave the basket lid off and just dump garden hose water into the pump. See what happens. The most likely scenario is the pump will suck the basket dry faster than the garden hose can supply water. That's OK. Says the pump is working fine. Next step to solve the problem. I really don't think it's a major...i.e. $$$ issue.
Al

[nater]

Can you break the line between the pump and filter? If you can, and then the pump runs and spews water all over the place at the line break, you may have a blockage after the pump (I wouldn't think that very likely though).

If you have to cut the line, you can easily glue a union fitting or use a radiator hose in the place where you had to cut, that way you'll have a disconnect for future use.

From your description, it sounds like the pump is working, it either can't maintain prime to draw water from the pool, or there's a blockage after the pump.

[mas985]

If your PSI is 0 and you have air in the pump basket, the impeller and pump should be ok because it is pulling water out of the basket and air into it. This usually a good indication of a blockage on the suction side.

I know you said that you tried to clear it but perhaps your first try was not successful. Although a rag around the hose to try and clear but this does not always work well. I would get a drain king from the hardware store for your pipe size and try that. It allows for higher back pressure than the hose and rag trick.