Looking for Advice - Possible SWG Convert

[SteveK2]

Hi All,
I am considering the installation of a SWG this spring and would like to get some input on my decision.

It is a given that installing a SWG will be more convenient than adding chlorine to the pool on a regular (daily) basis. So what I am interested in knowing, specifically, is if using an SWG will require longer run times for my pool pump in order to generate enough chlorine for sanitization.

Pool specifics: 20x40 I/G vinyl liner @approximately 30,000 gallons. Over the last 2 summers, I have run my pump/filter for 8 hours per day in 2 four-hour shifts. This and proper chlorine levels has kept the pool sparkling clear. I have usually shocked the pool right after parties or weekly.

As a former Baquacil user who converted 3 seasons ago, I really enjoy the cost savings and cleanliness of the chlorine pool. The chemical maintenance is not really a chore for me since I am usually home anyway. I would appreciate the convenience of a SWG, but I do not want to see my electrical bill skyrocket due to long run times.

Right now, this is the last factor in my decision to go SWG or not.

I'd appreciate hearing any pros or cons on pump run times from SWG users.

TIA,
SteveK

[nater]

Hey SteveK2,

To directly answer your question, I run my pool 8-10 hours per day in summer (4 hours at night, and 4-6 hours during the day). If you find that your Cl output is not keeping up with demand, you can increase the output % to compensate and keep the pump run time the same. (at least on the Autopilot)

Depending on the system you purchase, I'd oversize it. My pool is around 20,000 and I went with the 60 series cell (check ebay). I can maintain 3-6 ppm FC at an output 15-30%, which should lead to longer cell life. I still use bleach if I need to shock (dead animal/big party/small kids) instead of using the "boost" mode on the SWC.

I'd recomend you read this thread a few times to get a better understanding of the ins/outs of SWC's.
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=1226

Here's another in-depth discussion on SWC pools and rising pH. Bottom line is that running lower TA (60-80) in a vinyl pool seems to decreases the pH rise over time. I used much less acid once I used Chem Geeks suggested targets for pH and TA.
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=5379

For winter time operation, you may still need some occasional bleach. I've used 6 gallons so far this winter (Nov-Feb) as the water temp is too cold for the SWC to work, but just warm enough to grow the green stuff. (I keep it open year round.)

Since installing my SWC (and finding this forum :) ) I've only had one "issue" in two years with cloudy water, mostly due to lots of rain and low output on the SWC. A couple gallons of bleach and 8 hours later, problem solved. Much better than the first summer I spent being Pool Stored, spending hundreds of $, and swimming in a green pool. I absolutely love my SWC!!!

[Davenj]

Great response nater. I run my setup a little different. 18x36 vinyl with 2 speed pump. Filter run time is 11 hrs., on low speed I am probably moving about 35 gal/min. I believe on high its not economical or effecient for the SWC. Autopilot also, was well worth the investment.
By the way haven't tried Chem Geeks reccomendations. Have to read some more, I am also running a heater.

[CarlD]

I keep toying with the idea of an SWG because it SO cool to re-gen chlorine, but I just can't get past the cost/benefit analysis. The simplest ones run about $1000--and that's at a minimum 10 seasons' worth of bleach. Plus they DO require weekly maintenance and monitoring. I usually add between a 1/2 gallon and a gallon every other day. If we go away, and the pool isn't being used (I cover it) I simply have whoever is watching the house add the 1/2 gallon every other day and ALWAYS come back to a perfect pool.

Since I try to follow my own motto (see below) I just cannot see enough benefit to justify it.

[CanuckPool]

Hey CarlD, I think the best times to get an SWG is if you are

A) buying a house with a pool and you are new to pool maintenece
B) Getting a new pool
C) a convert from baq
D) if you like the idea of having one less thing (bleach) to buy from the store and maintain.

I don't think you can necessarily look at it as a cost saving item... its more of a "less maintenece" thing. If you are on top of your pool every week.. and enjoy doing so, there should be no reason to change.

[JoshU]

In addition to the benefits mentioned above you also get superior water quality. It eliminates "chlorine skin". When you leave a chlorine pool your skins feels very dry. Whereas when you leave a salt pool your skin will feel rejuvenated.

If you've spent $30,000 or more on building a pool then why wouldn't you want the best and most comfortable water.

Josh

[CanuckPool]

Oh yea! Better water, or what it really is, is more consistant chlorinated water. There is less ups and downs. Having the salt also really helps the water feel softer. The only drawback i have and other people is that some cheaper stainless screws will rust.

Like you mentioned, you're going to drop 30,000+ easily, not including landscaping, whats 1,000? But like I said, its much easier to do when you are building a new pool. If you have had a pool built before they were popular and are used to doing it "the old fashioned way" ;) then I can see how you would have to weigh the costs vs. benefits senario.

[CarlD]

In addition to the benefits mentioned above you also get superior water quality. It eliminates "chlorine skin". When you leave a chlorine pool your skins feels very dry. Whereas when you leave a salt pool your skin will feel rejuvenated.

If you've spent $30,000 or more on building a pool then why wouldn't you want the best and most comfortable water.

Josh

Yeah, I've heard that--it makes a great sales pitch for an expensive add-on. But I've noticed that ocean swimming leaves my skin feeling briney--AND dry. You must keep your salt level between the body's natural salinity level but within the SWG's range for the unit. Too high a salt level and you get sea-water--which IS irritating and drying.

SWGs work at using lower chlorine levels by keeping a very, very constant Free Chlorine level to stay ahead of contaminants. Also, saline is less hospitable to most organics that appear in your pool. But you STILL must do weekly checking of FC and CC levels and shock as necessary.

Chlorine irritation is a myth. Chlorine gets blamed for bad maintenance habits, inadequate testing, and mis-understanding what the 5 basic tests mean (Chlorine FC/CC, pH, Total Alkalinity, Cyanuric Acid/Stabilizer, and Calcium Hardness).

What we seek to do at this forum is help people understand these things, and how to make pool maintenance easy and simple, with no mystery and no magic cures.

I spend 2-5 minutes per day, if that much, on pool maintenance. I run quick OTO test on chlorine and pH. Once a week I run 4 of the 5 tests (since I have a vinyl pool I only check Calcium a few times a season). That takes 15 minutes. But if I find something that is NOT right, I act immediately to counter it.

We never have a problem with "chlorine skin" despite my CONSISTENTLY keeping my FC between 4 and 8ppm. That's because "chlorine skin" is due to high levels of Combined Chloramines, or CCs. Combined Chloramines dry and irritate your skin, burn your eyes, giving you "chlorine eyes". They also smell bad and give the characteristic "chlorine smell". I can have my pool at 8 or even 10ppm and you won't smell chlorine because I have NO Combined Chloramines.

Furthermore, high levels of Combined Chloramines indicates your pool water is fighting something--bacteria, viruses, algae, excess suntan lotion, something. Your Free Chlorine (FC) is being used up metabolizing it, leaving behind irritating CCs, and, whatever is being metabolized may be an irritant as well.

To get rid of those Combined Chloramines you must shock your pool with more chlorine until ALL the CC is gone.

But if you CONSISTENTLY test your water and keep your FC where it belongs the Combined Chloramines will never be a problem. And nobody's skin will be irritated. GENUINE sensitivity to chlorine is a VERY rare condition. Almost all cases that people THINK are chlorine sensitivity are due to improper chemical levels and poor maintenance.

Salt in your water has a HIDDEN problem nobody talks about: People with high blood pressure or other low-sodium diets must be VERY careful not to ingest the water. Even a house-hold water-softener is a risk. My mother-in-law cannot drink our house water because of the softener and must drink salt-free bottled water. I'm not against SWGs--But they are not a cure-all. My maintenance effort is so low I personally won't get much bang for the buck.

Please do not come to this board and tell us that chlorine is responsible for skin irritation. It is not. Poor water maintenance is the cause of that irritation, poor maintenance and ignorance about chlorine. All 4 of the monitors, as well as the board owner use bleach at high levels to keep our pools sweet and sanitary, without problems for any of our swimmers.

[aquarium]

Agree with Carl on this one. We bought a house that came with a pool (first pool we've ever owned) last April and it took me a couple of months to get up to speed. It turned out there were several things wrong with the equipment and previous maintenance. After switching to BBB I looked closely at both SWG and liquid chlorine dosers. I'm now glad I didn't bother with either.

While adding chlorine in the summer can be a bit of a chore, keeping the pool over the last few months has been a breeze with twice a week dosing and very minimal pump runtimes. At this point, I wouldn't want another piece of equipment to maintain, nor another water parameter to test. And, you can always add salt if you just want that feel. :D

[JoshU]

Carl,

Thanks for the feedback. I certainly didn't mean to make it sound like Chlorine will cause "skin irritation". I was just saying that many people who we deal with feel the difference between the two methods.

Thanks,
Josh

[CarlD]

Josh,

I have nothing against SWGs--as I've said I've looked and looked at them but just cannot justify them in MY installation when I do the cost versus the benefit for ME.

In my pool the water feels very soft--I accidentally added about 160 lbs of softener sea salt to it (don't ask...) That "feel" can be gotten with a few bags of sea salt--40lb bags are, what?, $5 each.

If the idea is the "feel", it's STILL a lot less expensive to just add some salt and to stay ahead of your water. There's no compelling reason not to (unless you have a low-sodium swimmer).

The two main advantages I see to SWG is GREATLY reduced chorine purchases (meaning taking the time and effort to buy and carry the stuff home--lots of gallons, jug disposal, handling, etc) and less maintenance--you can pretty much leave your pool for a week if you go away without worry, and if you schedule is SO crazy you can't always get to the pool, it can help to have an SWG.

Of course, the obvious third reason is if you plan on selling your house in the near future an SWG already installed makes a pool FAR more attractive to a novice ("you don't need to add chlorine--it makes its own").

If these reasons are compelling enough for you and your lifestyle, by all means, install an SWG. There are lots of good ones out there.

[SteveK2]

Carl, and everyone else who replied to my original post,

I appreciate everyone's insight and advice. Still haven't decided, but maybe if I look around at the various products and pricing that will help.

Carl,
You mentioned that there are plenty of good models out there.......any recommendations? Anyone else with a recommendation (and why)?

TIA,
SteveK

[nater]

Of course I'm partial to the unit I own, the Autopilot DIG-220. No issues so far, and Poolsean here at the forum is a great and honest source of information and support (he works for Autopilot). The Autopilot has two programmable on/off timers, shows temp and salinity level on a digital display, has freeze protection, controls the pump, has capability of adding an ORP system and automated pH control loop if desired. I scoured eBay for 3 months and finally found a great price on my unit from a priviate party (about the price of a replacement cell).

However, several other forum members (Waterbear) appear to have good luck with other model types. Do lots of homework to compare price/features for your needs and buy from a reputable vendor and I think you'll be happy with any choice.

[waterbear]

However, several other forum members (Waterbear) appear to have good luck with other model types. Do lots of homework to compare price/features for your needs and buy from a reputable vendor and I think you'll be happy with any choice.
I went with the Goldline Aqualogic PS-8 since I wanted the automation also and at the time it was the only automation unit with an integrated salt cell controller. I am not sorry that I did. I LOVE it and it works flawlessly! (Only regret is that I did not upgrade to the PS-16. I now know what I could have used those extra relays for!)
However, IMHO, the PoolPilot Digital has the best bells and whistles. It is not the easest unit to set up for a novice (and DO NOT trust your dealer to get it set up right for you. I have seen just too many improperly set up units installed by very reputable pool builders!) nor is it among the less expensive ones but once you get over the learning curve it is very easy to operate and has some features that make it one of the best choices out there and worth every penny! Bottom line, even some of the less expensive and fancy units like the Resiliance and the Zodiac work quite well at generating chlorine for your pool.

[mas985]

Ditto with what Waterbear said. I was purchasing a controller anyway and the SWG was only $400 more so it was a no brainer for me. I would easily pay for that in chlorine over the life of the cell.

The Aqualogic is pretty a good value and had everything that I needed. But the main reason I went with the unit is because all of my equipment was Hayward and so is Goldline so I got an extended warranty for free.

[alapool]

In my pool the water feels very soft--I accidentally added about 160 lbs of softener sea salt to it (don't ask...) That "feel" can be gotten with a few bags of sea salt--40lb bags are, what?, $5 each.

If the idea is the "feel", it's STILL a lot less expensive to just add some salt and to stay ahead of your water. There's no compelling reason not to (unless you have a low-sodium swimmer).

Carl,

you mentioned that you add sea salt to your BBB pool. I have an IG 27,000 gal. vinyl pool using the BBB method. Can I add sea salt to it and get the soft "feel"? If so how much should I add?

Thanks

[CarlD]

Carl,

you mentioned that you add sea salt to your BBB pool. I have an IG 27,000 gal. vinyl pool using the BBB method. Can I add sea salt to it and get the soft "feel"? If so how much should I add?

Thanks

Um, I did it accidentally. If you WANT it, I would start with one 80 lb bag of sea salt. If you don't notice a difference, add a second. It's going to take time to dissolve--the SWG folks can tell you how long--I don't think you want 80 lb of salt directly on your liner! I'd punch holes in the bag and let it dissolve slowly, and I'd keep it off the bottom.

Slowly add salt this way till it feels the way you like it--if it tastes salty, it's too much and you'll want to drain some and add fresh water. Better still is to get a salt test kit and aim for the low end of the range.

[halefmly]

If you are just looking to improve the "feel" of your water, read this thread: The Great Tetraborate Experiment! (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=4712)

Adding the right amount of Borax (up to 50 ppm) can improve the "feel" and also help control algae.

[SteveK2]

I want to thank everyone who provided recommendations, advice, and information.

But I have one question remaining -- will I need to increase the duration of my pool filtering times? I realize the answer depends to some degree on the 'chlorine demand' of my pool.

I have a 30,000 gallon, vinyl liner, in-ground pool. Since switching from bacquacil to chlorine, I run my filter in 2 shifts, each 4 hours long.

In looking at on-line sellers for products like Aqua-Rite, I see one who has apparent manufacturer's literature that states "no change in filtering times or duration". Yet, when I go to the Goldine/Aqua-Rite website, I see no such claim. That leads me to believe that this is an old marketing claim that proved to be wrong over the last few years, but the seller is still using the old marketing info.

Sorry if I seem paranoid, I just don't want to drop several hundred dollars onto a convenience product and find out that that my filtering times will go way up.

Any additional insights on this?

Thanks!

[tonyl]

I don't believe there's a direct correlation between filtering times and chlorination with or without a SWG. I've had the AquaRite for several years and have not had to adjust my filtering times when using the generator. My pool is 20k,ig, vinyl and in the heat of the summer here in Indiana the timer is set for 8 hours.

One thing you might consider is that the AquaRite runs on a 100 minute cycle. So....if you're running a 4 hour morning cycle and have the Aquarite set for 50% you won't get the full end cycle. In other words, from 1-100 minutes, will run for 50 minutes, 100-200 minutes, 50 minutes, 200-240 minutes will only get you 40 minutes, obviously. Not a big deal but the only example I can think of when you might want to bump up the filtering a few minutes.

Hope this helps, Tony

[SteveK2]

Tony, thanks for the response. It is appreciated.

They way I was looking at things, in a pool without SWG, there is no correlation between chlorination and filter run times. But with an SWG, there must be, since the SWG will be generating chlorine ONLY if there is water flow (isn't that the function of the flow switch -- to ensure that water is flowing through the system otherwise gases may build up in the SWG cell?)

I don't get the significance of the 100 minute cycle you mentioned. (Just me perhaps). BTW, I think the last part of your example (minutes 200-240), there will only be 20 minutes (50% of 40 minutes) of SWG "on-time". Bottomline is this -- if the SWG is set to 50%, then it will only be "on" 50% of the time that water is flowing (filtering) in the system. In doing some more reading on SWGs (the Aquarite in particular), its spec sheet says it will generate up to 1.45 pounds of chlorine per day. That would be @24hours filtering/pumping time. At 8 hours per day (my schedule), one-third of that amount of chlorine would be produced if I set the switch @100%. So the question is -- will 0.48 pounds of generated chlorine be enough to sanitize the pool?

Using the bleach calculator from this site MIGHT be useful in answering this question. So, using bleachcalc, I plugged-in my relevant numbers: 30,000 gallon pool, 6 PPM desired PPM target, 100% bleach strength for generated chlorine (would this be correct?). The result says I need to add 2 cups, 7 ounces to the pool. I don't know how to equate liquid chlorine volume with generated chlorine's "weight".

Am I making a valid comparison here?

Maybe someone who is familiar with that calculator can tell me if

[tonyl]

I didn't explain myself very well with the 100 minute cycle example. It operates as if there will always be 100 minutes to work with. In the last example of 200-240, there will only be 40 minutes of generation because although the generator is set at 50%, it won't know the timer will turn the pump off at the 240 minute mark. It "thinks" there will be a 200-300 minute cycle.

Chlorine demand varies greatly depending on a variety of factors like bather load, number of kids, etc. I have a wife and two young girls and my pump runs 8 hours a day at about 25% setting in the summer and free chlorine level at 2~ and our pool gets full sun. I also keep the salt level at the max. recommended level of 3400 which helps me lower the output setting for efficiency and cell life. CYA gets bumped up to 70-80 as well which also helps the chlorine stick around. So again, there's a few things that have to be considered relative to how much chlorine your pool will need.

Hope this helps, Tony

[chem geek]

1 pound of chlorine gas is equivalent to 15.3 cups of 12.5% (trade) chlorinating liquid or 31.1 cups of 6% (weight; 5.7% available chlorine) bleach.

I doubt that you are adding 6 ppm FC every day -- that is your target number, not your usage number. Your usage may be about half that, or 3 ppm FC. For your 30,000 gallon pool, that would require about 23.3 cups of 6% bleach which is the same as 12 ounces of chlorine gas. That's 12/(16*1.45) = 52% on-time assuming their numbers are correct and that your true FC requirement is 3 ppm per day.

Richard

[SteveK2]

Tony,
OK, thanks. Now I get the 100 minute cycle significance. And thanks for describing your pool environment - it helps quite a bit and is similar to my environment. Can you just let me know the gallonage of your pool? That would help me make a better comparison of the overall environment.

Richard,
Thanks for the info comparing generated chlorine to the liquids. Yes, you are probably right that my chlorine consumption is no where near 6PPM per day. I can't say I know my 'typical' daily consumption, because I haven't really tried to track that. So if I really need to replenish 3PPM every day, then a 52% "on-time" is between12 and 13 hours of filter/pump time with the output set at 100%.

Thanks again to both of you!

[chem geek]

You know, if pump time is the main concern there are a couple of solutions for that. First is to get a more powerful SWG -- even get a second one if you don't want to replace the first with a larger unit. Your 30,000 pool size is on the large size so is why a typical SWG unit has to be on so much. With more SWG power, you can run your pump a shorter period of time.

Another alternative to keep pump costs down is to use a variable speed pump and run at a slower speed. That way, you can have your long run time, but not use as much electricity while still getting the minimum single turnover per day that you need.

Richard

[tonyl]

Steve,
Glad I can help. My pool is right at 20k gallons. (18X36 sport pool, 5.5' in the middle and 3.5' on each end) Anything else I can help you with let me know.
Tony

[SteveK2]

Richard,
Good suggestions and very much appreciated. Although it probably doesn't seem to be the case, filter run time isn't that big of a concern. I am just trying to understand what to expect. My main goal is convenience and not cost savings, but I want to know up front if my costs (like filter run time) will go up.
Thanks again. The info from you and all others will help make a decision (which I expect to make very shortly).

[SteveK2]

Thanks to everyone who provided information on this topic. I have placed an order for an Aquarite SWG. Looking forward to installation followed by relaxation and a summer of enjoyment!
:-)

[PatL34]

Thought I would add my two cents on this particular topic, and also raise a few eyebrows at the same time.

I have been out of the Pool Forum loop since September 2006, owing to medical problems and other things.

As I maintain the pool, it obviously has not received the TLC that many members normally give to their pools.

Why is that? I could have had a pool supply service the pool, but why waste money when I know I can do the job better.:rolleyes:

I have not added the muriatic acid on a regular basis like I should have, so I was waiting for the algae to show up eventually. Remember we were in winter at the time in Central Florida. Water analyses have been done, but only when I was in the mood.:rolleyes:

Now many of you are thinking that I don't give a damn. But I do. I had to have the pool relined with Diamond Brite, because the original plasterer added sand to the mix to make it cheaper.:mad:

The plasterer who finally did the job correctly, has given me a pool that can withstand more abuse than any pool that I have come across.

I am now adding acid on a regular basis, and finding that the pH is the only thing I have to control.

I have not checked the cell in all this time, but feel I may have to one of these days.

The point I am trying to get at, is that SWCGs require a lot less maintenance then people realize.

I have had a SWCG since 1998, which was part of a package including solar panels. I upgraded to a PoolPilot 3 years ago, and have never looked back.

So with apologies to CarlD, SWCGs save an awful lot of trips to the pool store, requiring the use of gasoline, hefting cans of liquid chlorine.

I did a cost analysis of what it would cost to run a SWCG, (ignoring the initial purchase cost of the unit), in this forum a year or more ago. Compare that to what you have to pay in liquid chlorine cans and gasoline, for the same effect as a SWCG.

Pat

[nater]

Welcome back Pat, its good to see your thoughts in the forum again! Best wishes with your health, I hope you'll be able to fully enjoy your new plaster this year ;)

[CarlD]

Pat,
I hope you are finally feeling chipper. Sorry to hear you were sick.

Please don't get me wrong: I have NOTHING against SWGs. In fact I think they are really cool techology.

But everytime I do the cost-benefit for ME I cannot justify it. That's the essence of what I have said all along. If I had to choose between an SWG and a robotic cleaner (like my BlueDiamond) it's a no-brainer...I hate vacuuming and brushing a hundred times more than I hate schlepping jugs of bleach or Liquid Chlorine. Since the price of both is ROUGHLY equivalent (between $800 and $1500) it's a reasonable comparison.
:D

[CanuckPool]

If you have $2500, why not get both!!!

It's hard for me to believe that the number one reason anyone considering an SWG is because its going to save money in the long run. I think its all about less pool maintenece... anything that keeps you (me) from having to drive to the store, heft liquid chlorine around, shocking, storing and keeps me in the water longer or in front of the BBQ longer with a ice cold beer has got to be good in my books. and as just posted, the benefit that a lot of people don't realize is the ability to leave your pool untouched for 2,3,4 even up to a week without any funky things happening.

How many people here have dishwashers vs. hand washing dishes? Sure you're going to save more money hand washing, but isnt the time saved having a dishwasher money well spent?

[tonyl]

2,3,4 even up to a week?

Well actually....there's been several times I've left my pool untouched for TWO weeks since I've had a SWG with no problems whatsoever. The only thing I do when leaving for that long is to close the skimmer valve in case evaporation or a leak takes it down below where it can draw. Main drain only is no problem as long as the pump gasket doesn't leak and I always check it out.

Welcome back Pat! Hope all is well with you.

Tony

[PatL34]

Pat,
I hope you are finally feeling chipper. Sorry to hear you were sick.

Please don't get me wrong: I have NOTHING against SWGs. In fact I think they are really cool techology.

But everytime I do the cost-benefit for ME I cannot justify it. That's the essence of what I have said all along. If I had to choose between an SWG and a robotic cleaner (like my BlueDiamond) it's a no-brainer...I hate vacuuming and brushing a hundred times more than I hate schlepping jugs of bleach or Liquid Chlorine. Since the price of both is ROUGHLY equivalent (between $800 and $1500) it's a reasonable comparison.
:D

CarlD,

Having some difficulty with your logic.

I feel you are comparing apples and oranges. All of us have to vacuum and brush at some time. That is a given! With your Blue Diamond robotic cleaner to do the job for you, it makes it that much easier for you to appreciate your pool.

How your robotic cleaner compares with an SWCG, in terms of cost benefits can only be thought of as initial costs. Then you have to compare the running costs including maintenance of the cleaner against that of the logistical costs of lugging liquid chlorine from the pool store with your car back to your pool. If you feel you would rather lug chlorine, so be it.

Don't get me wrong, I had to lug chlorine jugs while curing the Diamond Brite plaster, so I know of what you speak.

Now let's go a step further. The cost of gasoline will start to go up in a few years. That too is a given! As the cost of gasoline goes up, so does the cost of buying liquid chlorine, as the overall energy costs go up in manufacturing it.

With an SWCG and a viny/linerl pool, the only variable in maintenance and running costs will be the electricity. After 5 years or longer, depending on the bather load and other upsets, you will have to replace the cell.

I did a cost estimate some timeback for running the SWCG including the cell replacement, and it came to about $20/month.

So I am finding it difficult for you not to think more favorably of an SWCG as an alternative source of chlorine.

Hope this helps.

Pat

[adesalvo]

my 2 cents...SWG work well, with a relatively large upfront cost. Some people are not the DIY types, so a $1500 equipment cost discounts the labor. My local PB charges $85 for a visit and $50 to $150/hr. So I would guess that it is not going to happen for less than $2000.

As far as buying bleach, I never make a special trip. I buy it when I am already at Sam's Club (or where ever I see a good price). So, I do not think that everyone needs to include gas when considering costs...

This being said, if cost isn't an issue...SWG are the way to go...but folks like me, with three kids who like to swim (and their friends too)...labor is free for cleaning, testing and adjusting, buying the bleach is no big deal...

[rcabor1]

my 2 cents...SWG work well, with a relatively large upfront cost. Some people are not the DIY types, so a $1500 equipment cost discounts the labor. My local PB charges $85 for a visit and $50 to $150/hr. So I would guess that it is not going to happen for less than $2000.

As far as buying bleach, I never make a special trip. I buy it when I am already at Sam's Club (or where ever I see a good price). So, I do not think that everyone needs to include gas when considering costs...

This being said, if cost isn't an issue...SWG are the way to go...but folks like me, with three kids who like to swim (and their friends too)...labor is free for cleaning, testing and adjusting, buying the bleach is no big deal...


I got my Aquarite off Ebay from a reputable seller, brand new in sealed package for $633 (buy it now). I installed it myself (real easy), but before I tackled it, I checked to see how much an intall in my area (DFW)would cost, and it was about $150. So it can be done much cheaper than you think.


edit:here is who i got it from, its a bit cheaper now http://cgi.ebay.com/HAYWARD-AQUARITE-GOLDLINE-AQUA-RITE-SALT-POOL-AQ-RITE_W0QQitemZ120103814601QQihZ002QQcategoryZ20729 QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[rcabor1]

I just got home to find a Leslies ad, and they have the Swimpure Salt system(repackaged aquarite) for 1099 installed for free.

[CanuckPool]

Hey CarlD, question for you... if the prices of SWG's came down to under $500 would you convert?

[CarlD]

Hey CarlD, question for you... if the prices of SWG's came down to under $500 would you convert?

How far under $500?

ROFLMAO!:D

I see some now as low as $599.! But I don't know how good they are.

Intex now makes one for 12,000 gal and less that's less that $200 and uses no plumbing. I have NO idea if it actually WORKS.

[CanuckPool]

what I am getting at is... if quality units eventually made their way down under $500, you never know, it could happen down the road. And assuming the cost of bleach will stay where it is or even rise a little (not to mention the cost of gasoline), will you consider converting seeing how the SWG cost vs. liquid chlorine would weigh even more on the SWG side.

[CarlD]

what I am getting at is... if quality units eventually made their way down under $500, you never know, it could happen down the road. And assuming the cost of bleach will stay where it is or even rise a little (not to mention the cost of gasoline), will you consider converting seeing how the SWG cost vs. liquid chlorine would weigh even more on the SWG side.


I don't know why people keep saying this: I am NOT opposed to SWGs. Repeat: I AM NOT OPPOSED TO SWGs! They are AMAZING gadgets, and they work, usually VERY well. Plus, they are FULLY compatible with the B-B-B methods of pool maintenance.

I am not on one side or another. It's not a good/bad, yes/no question. It's a question of you and your priorities. If an SWG is right for you and your lifestyle, by all means, get one! I simply do not see, FOR ME, a benefit significant enough to yet offset the cost. FOR ME ONLY! I don't know why it is SO difficult to get this point across!

This is NOT like the Nature2 debate, where I see the N2 system as nothing more than a way to transfer your money to them. I see NO benefit to N2, and, even if it does work as well as they claim, the math is such that it STILL costs far more to use the N2 than you will EVER save on bleach (about twice as much each season).

I would DEFINITELY say if you are considering a Nature2 system and don't have an SWG, BUY THE SWG and SKIP the Nature2! THAT is a cost-benefit analysis that CLEARLY favors the SWG.

[CanuckPool]

ok CarlD, dont get too worked up:rolleyes: have a beer on me!

[CarlD]

ok CarlD, dont get too worked up:rolleyes: have a beer on me!

Deal. You're on the hook for 1 Guinness.

[CanuckPool]

The next time I stop by NJ!

Hey, I was in Princeton waaaay back in 1989, nice town, do you live by there?

[CarlD]

The next time I stop by NJ!

Hey, I was in Princeton waaaay back in 1989, nice town, do you live by there?

It's about an hour & 1/2 away. About 3/4 hr from my office.

I can wait on that beer........

[Poolsean]

No way, you all are being TOO easy on Carl. I think we ought to hound him until he gives in and puts one on his pool! Come on Carl, you're just tooo lazy to put one on right?
; )

[CarlD]

No way, you all are being TOO easy on Carl. I think we ought to hound him until he gives in and puts one on his pool! Come on Carl, you're just tooo lazy to put one on right?
; )


That's me! ;)

[CanuckPool]

maybe we should sneak into his backyard and install one.

[waterbear]

No way...HE has to do the work himself!;)

[CarlD]

No way...HE has to do the work himself!;)

Dang! But it's a freebie, right????:D