Steve's pool project 1-24-07

[skamp]

I am very close to pulling the trigger on a new pool and I am looking for some comments and/or suggestions. The pool builder is an established builder in NW Houston (The Pool Man). I am really looking for any and all suggestions to make to save me pain in the long run on my design or choices.

In this quote there are a few things that I am changing.

1. Change filter to DE
2. Remove infloor cleaning system.
3. Remove the Ozonator. I have read here they are not really worth the money.
3. Change from sundeck to peagravel (this was my wifes choice. She likes the look better. I know it is hotter then sundeck but I may have to go with the boss on this one)
4. Move the spa to the other side of the pool. I have a 2 year old and having it in front blocks my view. I am also having them enlarge the upper right side a bit to make the tanning ledge larger once the spa gets moved.

Here is a picture of the initial design

http://www.lanability.com/images/Image0011l.jpg

Here are the specs:

GENERAL SPECIFICATIONS
Pool Area: 515 Sq. Ft.
Perimeter: 95 Ln. Ft.
Dimensions: 19’W x 34’L
Depth: 3’6” to 7’
Pool/Spa Capacity: 20,200 Gallons
Spa: 7’ Round 12” Raised Spa w/ 18” Spillover

Waterfeature: 3 ton Moss Rock Waterfall w/ 16’ of Moss Rock Beam

Benches: 6’ Deep-end Bench and Spa Wrap Around Bench

Tanning Shelf: 4’ x 8’ 1st Step Tanning Shelf w/ Umbrella Sleeve

STRUCTURAL SPECIFICATIONS
100% Gunite:
Beam: 12” x 12”
Walls & Floor: 6”
Steps, bench & spa bench: Per Plan
Steel: Beam: (4) Bars of ½” Rebar
Walls/Floor: 3/8” Rebar on 8. Centers

MECHANICAL EQUIPMENT
Equipment Pad: Gunite
Filter: Sta Rite Modular System 3, Cartridge Filter 400 Sq. Ft.
Pool/Spa Pump: Sta Rite 2 HP
Waterfall Pump: Sta Rite 2 HP
Paramount Pump: Sta Rite 1 HP
Blower: Polaris QT 1/5 HP
Automatic Cleaner: PCC-2000 Cleaning & Circulation System w/MDX Main Drain and Debris Canister
Controller: Easy Touch 8 Function Wireless Control System
Sanitizer: Salt System w/ Beginnings and Renewals
Ozonator: Paramount Clear 03 Ozone System
Lights: Pool: One (1) Pentair Amerlite 500 Watt
Spa: One (1) Pentair Aqualite 100 Watt
Heater: Sta Rite Max-E-Therm 400,000 BTU Nat

COPING, TILE & INTERIOR SPECIFICATIONS
Coping: Flagstone
Tile: Flagtsone
Interior Finish: Pebble Tec Category 2
Overflow: One
PIPING
1. PVC Schedule 40
2. CPVC at pump connections
3. Jandy never lube valves
4. Fill line (1) ¾” Sch. 40 Under the Coping w/Valve & Vac Breaker
5. Main drain: Pool - Paramount MDX Main Drain Assembly
6. Spa - Paramount MDX Main Drain Assembly
7. Pool Return inlets: Per Paramount PCC2000
8. Spa Jets: Six (6) w/ Directional Eyeballs
9. Spa/Commons: Two (2) w/ Directional Eyeballs
10. Skimmers: Two (2) Pentair Bermuda w/Equalizer Lines

Note: Standard plumbing package includes 2” direct piping from each skimmer and main drain assembly to the equipment with independent valves. Spas have 2.5” return and suction piping.

DECK SPECIFICATIONS
Area: 1,020 Sq. Ft.
Concrete: 4” Thick
Type: Sundek
Steel Schedule: 3/8” Rebar on 12” Centers
Expansion joints: Plastic
Dec-o-seal: Lightly sanded
Drainage: 4” Area Drains to Street
Concrete Removal: 120 Sq. Ft. of Patio

POOL MAINTENANCE EQUIPMENT
1. One (1) 8’ x 16” Telescopic Pole
2. One (1) Vacuum head
3. One (1) Nylon wall brush
4. One (1) Leaf net
5. One (1) Vacuum hose
6. One(1) 4inl Testkit
7. One (1) Chemical Start-Up Kit w/Bio-Guard Brand Chemicals

UTILITIES
The Pool Man, Inc. will provide gas to the heater if applicable. Heater installation may require a meter upgrade. This must be done by the local gas provider and will be at the customers’ expense.
Note: The Pool Man, Inc. will not be responsible for the expense to move any electrical, gas, sewer, telephone lines, or sprinkler systems to construct the pool.

Note: The construction price does not reflect tree removal. This does include a Sub-panel and Fence Removal and Replacement.

Total: $54,815.00

My real total is lower due to removing the cleaning system, ozonator and moving to pea gravel. The real total is $48,210.

OPTIONAL

1. PCC-2000 Cleaning & Circulation System wIMDX Main
Drain and Debris Canister -$4,250.00
2. Interior Finish to Marble White Plaster -$3,900.00
3. Water-feature -$5,000.00
4. Salt System w/ Beginnings & Renewal -$1,200.00
5. Ozonator -$540.00
6. Wireless Control System -$1,690.00
7. Deck to Pea-gravel -$1,815.00
8. Fire Pit wI Gas Line Stub, Fire Brick Lining, Flagstone Finish +2,400.00

[26theone]

Steve I am also in Houston and currently reviewing pool bids. Your pool design looks great and is very similar to what we are looking at doing. Your pricing looks very competitive. So much so that I am probably going to call your builder for a quote.

Are you keeping the flagstone inlays with the pea gravel? We are also contemplating flagstone inlays in sundek. I hadnt thought about flagstone in pea gravel. That is a pretty significant cost savings switching to pea gravel.

You should also think about keeping the MDX drains and canister even without the infloor cleaning system. That way you can sweep leaves to the drain and have it go to the cannister. One of my potential builders will do that even without the PPC-2000.

Also you might consider switching the single 500w light to 2 300w lights to provide some better lighting. The cost difference should only be a couple hundred dollars

Great looking pool!

[jrouse1]

Hi Steve. I just wanted to comment on The Pool Man. They are doing a renovation on our 36 year old pool right now. They are fantastic! We had a bad experience with a bigger Houston company when we installed a new deck last year. The Pool Man is everything (so far) that the other builder wasn't.

The thing I've appreciated the most is they use their own people for stuff a lot of big companies sub out, and a supervisor comes to the job site every day and stays a while helping out if needed. We're having both of our ancient skimmers replaced, and it's not an easy job. Just watching the guys work I'm confident they know what they're doing and the job will be done correctly.

Communication to this point has been excellent (one of my biggest gripes last year). Everybody I've had contact with at The Pool Man seems to really know pools and has been in the business a long time. I hope you also have a good experience!

Your design looks fantastic! Alas, my pool will still be a plain, older pool, but it will look shiny and new with new tile and Pebble Tec. We're going with the Pebble Tec finish because we have a lot of oak trees and it seems like the pebbled bottom will hide some of the annoying stains we get from the seeds, leaves, twigs, etc. that are always falling in the pool. We do have the Kool Deck topping and like it very much...easy on the feet and easy to clean.

Good Luck!:)

[JohnT]

Seems like your equipment is a long way from the pool. Is that a bathroom/poolhouse in the upper left? That might be a better location for the pump/filter.

2HP pump seems excessive since the waterfall has its own pump.

[skamp]

Steve I am also in Houston and currently reviewing pool bids. Your pool design looks great and is very similar to what we are looking at doing. Your pricing looks very competitive. So much so that I am probably going to call your builder for a quote.

Are you keeping the flagstone inlays with the pea gravel? We are also contemplating flagstone inlays in sundek. I hadnt thought about flagstone in pea gravel. That is a pretty significant cost savings switching to pea gravel.

You should also think about keeping the MDX drains and canister even without the infloor cleaning system. That way you can sweep leaves to the drain and have it go to the cannister. One of my potential builders will do that even without the PPC-2000.

Also you might consider switching the single 500w light to 2 300w lights to provide some better lighting. The cost difference should only be a couple hundred dollars

Great looking pool!

Yes it would be pea gravel with flagstone inlay. I am not worried about the cost as much as the fact that my wife just does not love the way it looks. She grew up using a pea gravel pool and I think there is some nostalgia there. The problem is that was in NY and the deck gets a bit hotter here! They use the MDX drains even without the cleaning system. I don't think they keep the canister so I may add that. I forgot that I am going with 2 lights instead of the single. Thanks for the input and complements!


Steve

[skamp]

Hi Steve. I just wanted to comment on The Pool Man. They are doing a renovation on our 36 year old pool right now. They are fantastic! We had a bad experience with a bigger Houston company when we installed a new deck last year. The Pool Man is everything (so far) that the other builder wasn't.

The thing I've appreciated the most is they use their own people for stuff a lot of big companies sub out, and a supervisor comes to the job site every day and stays a while helping out if needed. We're having both of our ancient skimmers replaced, and it's not an easy job. Just watching the guys work I'm confident they know what they're doing and the job will be done correctly.

Communication to this point has been excellent (one of my biggest gripes last year). Everybody I've had contact with at The Pool Man seems to really know pools and has been in the business a long time. I hope you also have a good experience!

Your design looks fantastic! Alas, my pool will still be a plain, older pool, but it will look shiny and new with new tile and Pebble Tec. We're going with the Pebble Tec finish because we have a lot of oak trees and it seems like the pebbled bottom will hide some of the annoying stains we get from the seeds, leaves, twigs, etc. that are always falling in the pool. We do have the Kool Deck topping and like it very much...easy on the feet and easy to clean.

Good Luck!:)

I am glad to hear that. I know a bunch of people that have used them and have been very happy. Thanks!

Steve

[skamp]

Seems like your equipment is a long way from the pool. Is that a bathroom/poolhouse in the upper left? That might be a better location for the pump/filter.

2HP pump seems excessive since the waterfall has its own pump.

No that is a shed but I built it to look like a house. The equiptment is on that side becuase that is where the gas and electric are located. It is only about 30-40 feet from the spa. If I move it back by the shed it would be a fortune for the gas line and electric. It seems like the best location given the concerns. Thanks!

Steve

[JohnT]

No that is a shed but I built it to look like a house. The equiptment is on that side becuase that is where the gas and electric are located. It is only about 30-40 feet from the spa. If I move it back by the shed it would be a fortune for the gas line and electric. It seems like the best location given the concerns. Thanks!

Steve

Make sure they don't butt the slab for the equipment against the foundation wall without an expansion joint or something to keep noise from being transmitted.

Make sure to go ahead and plan any fences or gates if required now so you'll notice any problems before you dig.

I highly recommend a poolhouse/cabana/changing room with a bathroom in the pool area. Traipsing through the house in wet clothes won't make mama happy, and you'll be going more than you think. At least plan for it if it's something you might ever want.

Looks like a beautiful pool.

[skamp]

Make sure they don't butt the slab for the equipment against the foundation wall without an expansion joint or something to keep noise from being transmitted.

Make sure to go ahead and plan any fences or gates if required now so you'll notice any problems before you dig.

I highly recommend a poolhouse/cabana/changing room with a bathroom in the pool area. Traipsing through the house in wet clothes won't make mama happy, and you'll be going more than you think. At least plan for it if it's something you might ever want.

Looks like a beautiful pool.

I will make sure they add an expansion joint between the equiptment pad and the house. I would love to have a pool house but my backyard is too small and the budget is just not there. Thanks!

Steve

[26theone]

I called your PB and the lady that answered said they dont build pools in my area. Odd, less that 40 miles from their offices? When you see your PB next you may want to ask if they build in Kingwood. I could throw a referral your way! Thanks

[skamp]

I called your PB and the lady that answered said they dont build pools in my area. Odd, less that 40 miles from their offices? When you see your PB next you may want to ask if they build in Kingwood. I could throw a referral your way! Thanks

That is odd. I know they build a lot of pools and maybe they just stay in this area. I will ask them next time I speak with them. Thanks!

Steve

[mmcguire]

A 2HP pump for a waterfall can be overkill and expensive. Then again if the waterfall is large and you want a lot of water then 2HP may be needed. When I did mine I installed a valve to route some water back to the pool. I also did a dual speed 2HP pump. This gives me the ability to run on low most of the time because it is cheaper and on high when I want a lot of water. On high I also can adjust the valve to get exactly the amount of water I want. Just some random thoughts.

Also did I miss the autofill? I would always do an autofill.

[skamp]

A 2HP pump for a waterfall can be overkill and expensive. Then again if the waterfall is large and you want a lot of water then 2HP may be needed. When I did mine I installed a valve to route some water back to the pool. I also did a dual speed 2HP pump. This gives me the ability to run on low most of the time because it is cheaper and on high when I want a lot of water. On high I also can adjust the valve to get exactly the amount of water I want. Just some random thoughts.

Also did I miss the autofill? I would always do an autofill.

I am getting a 3 ton waterfall with about 1.5-2 tons of border rock that will have some weeping water. I will ask about how they valve it. As far as the autofill a lot of the builders do not want to do them because of problems. Have people here seen a lot of problems with autofills?

Steve

[26theone]

I am getting a 3 ton waterfall with about 1.5-2 tons of border rock that will have some weeping water. I will ask about how they valve it. As far as the autofill a lot of the builders do not want to do them because of problems. Have people here seen a lot of problems with autofills?

Steve

I am interested in the same info. One builder I am considering includes an autofill. The other says he doesnt like them because they can mask potential leaks.

[mmcguire]

I would say get the autofill. Even if you just turn it on while you are on vacation it would be worth it. My .02

[ehorn]

I have a comment on the 2HP pump for the waterfall, I seriously doubt it needs to be that big. I have a 3/4HP pump on mine and it flows a lot of water. I can adjust the flow to the waterfall as it's got two outputs, one to the waterfall and one back to the pool. You can lower the waterfall output by diverting more water back to the pool. So far I can make it run like it's got a high flow stream by diverting half the flow back to the pool.

As for the autofill they installed one on my pool. The only danger I can see is that it has a valve on it that can be prone to cracking due to freezing temperatures. I have to put a towel over it if the temperature gets too low. It does have a bleed valve for this but a towel is quicker and more effective. You can turn the water source off to the autofill and then this way only fill it when you want to. The mechanism is very basic works like a toilet, just a float valve.

What I wish I would have done differently is watched the plumbing of the spa better. They didn't put any return lines to the spa so I have to run the jets to get the spillover.

[skamp]

I have a comment on the 2HP pump for the waterfall, I seriously doubt it needs to be that big. I have a 3/4HP pump on mine and it flows a lot of water. I can adjust the flow to the waterfall as it's got two outputs, one to the waterfall and one back to the pool. You can lower the waterfall output by diverting more water back to the pool. So far I can make it run like it's got a high flow stream by diverting half the flow back to the pool.

As for the autofill they installed one on my pool. The only danger I can see is that it has a valve on it that can be prone to cracking due to freezing temperatures. I have to put a towel over it if the temperature gets too low. It does have a bleed valve for this but a towel is quicker and more effective. You can turn the water source off to the autofill and then this way only fill it when you want to. The mechanism is very basic works like a toilet, just a float valve.


What I wish I would have done differently is watched the plumbing of the spa better. They didn't put any return lines to the spa so I have to run the jets to get the spillover.

I will have to ask about that larger pump. I am really on the fence with the autofill. It does not seem like that big of a hassle to turn the water on when needed. They do plumb a fill like but you have manually turn it on and off. I also though about hooking the fill line to an extra sprinkler actuator and run that zone from the pool control. I will have an extra zone now due to the pool taking up a good portion of the backyard. As far as the spa I am 99% sure they have separate returns so you don't have to run the jets. Thanks!

Steve

[Ready2swim]

I know it seems small but I would consider 2 lights in your pool...we had our pool built this year and it is strikingly similar to your design. In the beginning our builder said one light was enough...just before they sprayed the gunite I changed it to 2 lights and in the end I was very glad that I did. I put both lights on a dimmer because the builder said it would be too bright but so far I have never touched the dimmer.

One other point that I saw someone else make was an auto filler/drain. I opted to not do this and it has been the largest pain with my pool. I also live in the Houston area and you know how much rain we have had lately...i have had to drain the pool several times in the last few weeks just to keep the water from overflowing...likewise last summer I was adding to the pool every other week. All it takes is one time to forget that you are dumping or adding water and the investment of an auto filler would have been paid for several times over.

[skamp]

I know it seems small but I would consider 2 lights in your pool...we had our pool built this year and it is strikingly similar to your design. In the beginning our builder said one light was enough...just before they sprayed the gunite I changed it to 2 lights and in the end I was very glad that I did. I put both lights on a dimmer because the builder said it would be too bright but so far I have never touched the dimmer.

One other point that I saw someone else make was an auto filler/drain. I opted to not do this and it has been the largest pain with my pool. I also live in the Houston area and you know how much rain we have had lately...i have had to drain the pool several times in the last few weeks just to keep the water from overflowing...likewise last summer I was adding to the pool every other week. All it takes is one time to forget that you are dumping or adding water and the investment of an auto filler would have been paid for several times over.

I forgot to mention in my original change list that I am going with 2 lights instead of the single.

They are going to add an overflow so the pool will never overflow. I am still on the fence about the autofill. The PB I am using says the only one they trust is a digital one and it costs a lot of money. It seems like a lot of people here have not had problems but I have had a number of PB's tell me they are a lot of trouble. Thanks!

Steve

[RocKKer]

I am very happy with my autofill. It is a sump with a float in it, not digital, never had issues with it, 3 years now (other than the recent freeze in CA, but that was my fault).

The only problem was when I first got it running, plumber used alot of silicone on joints and they didn't flush anything and the filler valve was clogged with bits of silicone. No problems after I cleaned it out.

I also have autodrain. Both of these low-tech solutions IMHO are well worth the costs. I got these because I wanted to make my pool as low maintenance as possible.

You don't need anything digital for the autofill - autofill uses a float like your toilet, do u need a digital autofill for your toilet?

[skamp]

I am very happy with my autofill. It is a sump with a float in it, not digital, never had issues with it, 3 years now (other than the recent freeze in CA, but that was my fault).

The only problem was when I first got it running, plumber used alot of silicone on joints and they didn't flush anything and the filler valve was clogged with bits of silicone. No problems after I cleaned it out.

I also have autodrain. Both of these low-tech solutions IMHO are well worth the costs. I got these because I wanted to make my pool as low maintenance as possible.

You don't need anything digital for the autofill - autofill uses a float like your toilet, do u need a digital autofill for your toilet?

I talked with my builder and they said they have not problem installing one. They told me that they are not too happy about using them as they also do a lot of maintenance and find that they fix them a lot. I am very handy so if I have to fix a float every few years then no big deal. Thanks!

Steve

[huskyrider]

Steve your pool plan is AWESOME!!!
Your choice of pool builders is equally awesome, these guys are great.
If all of my competitors were as stand up as The Pool Man I'd be in Hawg Heaven. They'll make you proud of your choice.

On your design I'll give you my .02

Ask for the credit on the Paramount Infloor cleaning system and take a Polaris 280 or a Pentair/Letro Legend with a booster pump. Take the credit and subtract the cost of the pool sweep (900 to 1000) Total credit 3300+-
Ask for the credit on the Ozonator (540)
Ask for the credit on Sundek (1815) and change to peagravel.
Apply this 5600 credit towards landscaping around the new pool.
I'd definitely leave the spa in its current location. On the right flank where it's located it won't block your view at all. It's positioned perfectly for minimal encroachment into the pool area and it allows gracious steps into the pool too.

Thanks for supporting the industry with your new pool purchase. You'll soon find out what all the hoopla of pool ownership is all about. Everything from having a cup of coffee in the morning, reading a book in the afternoon, to entertaining friends for dinner in the evening is greatly enhanced when conducted poolside. I promise you this, it's a lot more than just the swimming!!!

See ya,
Kelly

[skamp]

Steve your pool plan is AWESOME!!!
Your choice of pool builders is equally awesome, these guys are great.
If all of my competitors were as stand up as The Pool Man I'd be in Hawg Heaven. They'll make you proud of your choice.

On your design I'll give you my .02

Ask for the credit on the Paramount Infloor cleaning system and take a Polaris 280 or a Pentair/Letro Legend with a booster pump. Take the credit and subtract the cost of the pool sweep (900 to 1000) Total credit 3300+-
Ask for the credit on the Ozonator (540)
Ask for the credit on Sundek (1815) and change to peagravel.
Apply this 5600 credit towards landscaping around the new pool.
I'd definitely leave the spa in its current location. On the right flank where it's located it won't block your view at all. It's positioned perfectly for minimal encroachment into the pool area and it allows gracious steps into the pool too.

Thanks for supporting the industry with your new pool purchase. You'll soon find out what all the hoopla of pool ownership is all about. Everything from having a cup of coffee in the morning, reading a book in the afternoon, to entertaining friends for dinner in the evening is greatly enhanced when conducted poolside. I promise you this, it's a lot more than just the swimming!!!

See ya,
Kelly

Kelly,
First off, I appreciate the good things you have to say about The Pool Man. I did try to talk with you about giving me a quote. I left a voicemail and email but never got a response. I know you are very active here and have great insight into a lot of things.

I was planning on deleting the infloor and getting getting the Polaris 280 with the booster pump for no additonal cost. They will be using the Paramount drain and they are going to install the Paramount basket in the skimmer so I can sweep into the drain. I think it is a good comprise. What do you mean by the pool sweep?

I was also going to ditch the ozonator and Sundeck.

As far as the spa, I need to move it to the other side of the tanning ledge for two reasons. It is a 12" raised spa and I think it will block the view a little bit but the main reason is I am going to screen in my porch as I will not have enough space to walk between the spa and the screened patio. I could move the entire pool back but that is more decking, etc. I am going to enlarge the tanning ledge a bit so my 2 year old and soon to be 2nd girl have a nice place to play. Thanks for all the comments!

Steve

[26theone]

We are also having similar decisions to make on our design. We want a raised spa with a stacked stone spillover as a focal point but dont want it between the house and the pool. We will probably put it on the far side of the pool but your design looks good on putting on the other side of your steps/tanning ledge.

Our builder also includes the Paramount ozonator and with negotiating it is basically not costing me anything extra. I wonder if I should just tell him to leave it out altogether?

It will be good to see pix of your flagstone inlays in pea gravel. Initially we think we want flagstone inlays with sundek but may switch to pea gravel.

Is your project starting soon? Assuming the rain ever stops down here?

[skamp]

We are also having similar decisions to make on our design. We want a raised spa with a stacked stone spillover as a focal point but dont want it between the house and the pool. We will probably put it on the far side of the pool but your design looks good on putting on the other side of your steps/tanning ledge.

Our builder also includes the Paramount ozonator and with negotiating it is basically not costing me anything extra. I wonder if I should just tell him to leave it out altogether?

It will be good to see pix of your flagstone inlays in pea gravel. Initially we think we want flagstone inlays with sundek but may switch to pea gravel.

Is your project starting soon? Assuming the rain ever stops down here?

I will post a picture tomorrow with the new design. It is not final as I am going to have them push the spa back a bit to increase the tanning ledge area. I don't have any picture of the pea gravel with flagstone but they showed me a bunch of pools with it and it looked great. Very natural looking. I was going to go with Sundeck but my wife really does not like the way it looks. Also I hear Sundeck is more maintenance. I hear it only lasts 7-10 years before a respray. My only concern with the pea gravel is it can get hot.

I am hoping to get it stated soon. I have to get my HOA approval which will take a few weeks but I hope to get it started in Feb. My wife is due with out 2nd child in May and all this needs to get done before then!

Steve

[skamp]

Here is an updated design. I am going to meet with them on Saturday to make some changes. I plan on moving the spa back a bit to increase the tanning ledge. We may have to change the lines on the back wall a bit. I am also going to increase the bench size in the deep end a bit.

http://www.lanability.com/images/Image001.jpg

Let me know what you think. Thanks!

Steve

[26theone]

That looks great! Now you dont have to walk around the spa to get to your main steps/tanning ledge. Good idea putting the umbrella sleeve in your tanning shelf. Are you going to do a 7ft or 8ft spa? I will be working on our design tonight.

[skamp]

That looks great! Now you dont have to walk around the spa to get to your main steps/tanning ledge. Good idea putting the umbrella sleeve in your tanning shelf. Are you going to do a 7ft or 8ft spa? I will be working on our design tonight.

It is spec'ed as a 7' but I am going to have them angle the walls back 4-6" so the spa will increase to about 7' 6". Thanks!

Steve

[divnkd101]

Skamp,

Love the design. Your pool layout looks very similar to what I built last year. We love the tanning ledge and the wrap-around bench around the spa. Feel free to take a look at my build previously posted. It should give you a since of what your shallow end will look like.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=5975

My only advise is to push the spa out of the pool as far as you can. It truly does take a lot of space from your pool. Good luck on your build and keep us posted.:) :)

[skamp]

Skamp,

Love the design. Your pool layout looks very similar to what I built last year. We love the tanning ledge and the wrap-around bench around the spa. Feel free to take a look at my build previously posted. It should give you a since of what your shallow end will look like.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=5975

My only advise is to push the spa out of the pool as far as you can. It truly does take a lot of space from your pool. Good luck on your build and keep us posted.:) :)

I have looked at your thread in the past and you pool is great! I really like the LED lights. I talked to my PB about them and they said the effect is not so great with PebbleTec. I am planning on tweaking the design and pushing the spa out quite a bit to open up the tanning ledge quite a bit. I hope to get my approval in a week or so and then they can start. I plan on taking lots of pictures and keep posting updates here. Thanks!

Steve

[huskyrider]

quote" I did try to talk with you about giving me a quote. I left a voicemail and email but never got a response. "quote

Thanks for the opportunity, I'm sorry nobody within my organization got back with you. I hear this type of info all to often. It really makes me sick to hear it. When I bring it up in a sales meeting it's always "Oh, it was to far out of pocket from The Woodlands, or it wasn't a direct referral"
All I can express is that I had to make a decision a long time ago as to what was more important. Working the job at hand, or running the sales lead at hand. I've always been a hands on guy and the decision came easily to me, give up on the marketing and let your hands run the leads.
I've busted my chops over many years to build a company that builds a lot of pools every year without direct advertising. We build quite a lot of pools on both the direct referrals and indirect referrals like these pool forums generate.
I won't say that I come to the forums expressly to generate sales leads because it isn't true. But I do generate leads due to my interaction with members like yourself and get very frustrated when I hear about stuff like this. your call should have been given equal importance as any other lead.

I'm glad that you signed with a good contractor, I know you'll be pleased.

See Ya,
Kelly

[skamp]

quote" I did try to talk with you about giving me a quote. I left a voicemail and email but never got a response. "quote

Thanks for the opportunity, I'm sorry nobody within my organization got back with you. I hear this type of info all to often. It really makes me sick to hear it. When I bring it up in a sales meeting it's always "Oh, it was to far out of pocket from The Woodlands, or it wasn't a direct referral"
All I can express is that I had to make a decision a long time ago as to what was more important. Working the job at hand, or running the sales lead at hand. I've always been a hands on guy and the decision came easily to me, give up on the marketing and let your hands run the leads.
I've busted my chops over many years to build a company that builds a lot of pools every year without direct advertising. We build quite a lot of pools on both the direct referrals and indirect referrals like these pool forums generate.
I won't say that I come to the forums expressly to generate sales leads because it isn't true. But I do generate leads due to my interaction with members like yourself and get very frustrated when I hear about stuff like this. your call should have been given equal importance as any other lead.

I'm glad that you signed with a good contractor, I know you'll be pleased.

See Ya,
Kelly

Kelly,
I fully understand and sometimes things fall through the cracks. I really do appreciate all your knowledge and insight and looks forward to seeing your comments in the future! Thanks!

Steve

[skamp]

Here is a picture of my final design. I enlarged the tanning ledge and added bubblers. I also changed to 2 lights and some other stuff. I also signed the contract so hopefully they will start in a few weeks. I will post updates and pictures as they become available. Thanks!

Steve

http://www.lanability.com/images/poolfinal.jpg

[huskyrider]

The new pool design looks great.
I didn't realize that screening the existing covered porch was something you were considering. The original design does not work at all with that in mind.

I'll give you a little insight to my thought on the new design.
Have the builder drop your waterfall flanks to weeping rock level and let the one on the right slip in slightly below the level of the spa coping.
I find that moss rocks placed over the top of a 12" raised spa like they have the drawing makes that particular rock and those adjacent to it look to top heavy.

just my .02

See ya,
Kelly

[skamp]

The new pool design looks great.
I didn't realize that screening the existing covered porch was something you were considering. The original design does not work at all with that in mind.

I'll give you a little insight to my thought on the new design.
Have the builder drop your waterfall flanks to weeping rock level and let the one on the right slip in slightly below the level of the spa coping.
I find that moss rocks placed over the top of a 12" raised spa like they have the drawing makes that particular rock and those adjacent to it look to top heavy.

just my .02

See ya,
Kelly

Kelly,
It shows like that on the layout but what the plan was is to have the spa spillway dump water on that rock and not the other way around. At the right side it is already a low weeping wall and the spa is raised 12" so the spillway will be above the rock. The spillway is going to be 6' long starting from the weeping wall. I think the program my PB used did not layer the rock under the spillway correctly. Thanks!

Steve

[26theone]

Has your PB talked about using multi speed pumps for you project? Just curious as all the PB's I talked to just quoted single speed pumps. I know the initial cost on a single speed pump is less but am wondering if I should go the multi speed route such as the pentair intelliflo pumps.

Currently I am planning to have a single pump to handle both the pool/spa circulation, a blower for the spa and a booster pump for the legend pool cleaner.

[skamp]

Has your PB talked about using multi speed pumps for you project? Just curious as all the PB's I talked to just quoted single speed pumps. I know the initial cost on a single speed pump is less but am wondering if I should go the multi speed route such as the pentair intelliflo pumps.

Currently I am planning to have a single pump to handle both the pool/spa circulation, a blower for the spa and a booster pump for the legend pool cleaner.

No they never mentioned anything thing but sta-rite does make them in the pro series. I need to ask about it.

Steve

[divnkd101]

Here is a picture of my final design. I enlarged the tanning ledge and added bubblers. I also changed to 2 lights and some other stuff. I also signed the contract so hopefully they will start in a few weeks. I will post updates and pictures as they become available. Thanks!

Steve

Steve,

Addition of the bubblers, a great idea. I have one on my ledge. However, make sure the plumbers plumb those things with enough spacing to where they will not cause a disruption in water feature. What I mean is, one will tend to be dominant over the other if they are too close together. It has nothing to do with water flow out of the pipes but the ripples in the water they create. One will tend to distort the effect of the other. I looked at 3 different pools from several builders with this existing problem. That is why I decided on one bubbler over two. Hope that makes sense.

Based on your updated plan, have you considered moving one of the pool lights into the deep end? I think you and I think alike. I did not want to see the lights (mounted in the pool) from where I am sitting by the pool or from inside the house. However, with your aggregate finish, you are going to need as much light spread through that pool as possible. Your light will be very muted towards the back. Just my 2 cents worth. Again, the design looks great. Keep us posted. :) :cool:

[skamp]

Steve,

Addition of the bubblers, a great idea. I have one on my ledge. However, make sure the plumbers plumb those things with enough spacing to where they will not cause a disruption in water feature. What I mean is, one will tend to be dominant over the other if they are too close together. It has nothing to do with water flow out of the pipes but the ripples in the water they create. One will tend to distort the effect of the other. I looked at 3 different pools from several builders with this existing problem. That is why I decided on one bubbler over two. Hope that makes sense.

Based on your updated plan, have you considered moving one of the pool lights into the deep end? I think you and I think alike. I did not want to see the lights (mounted in the pool) from where I am sitting by the pool or from inside the house. However, with your aggregate finish, you are going to need as much light spread through that pool as possible. Your light will be very muted towards the back. Just my 2 cents worth. Again, the design looks great. Keep us posted. :) :cool:

I never even thought that the bubbles would cause a problem. The ledge is about 8' long so I would guess the spacing will be 3-4 feet. Do you think that is enough to prevent the issue you are talking about?

This is my first pool so I am not sure how well lights work but I did want to have light without seeing them and that why we moved them to where they are. It would seem like there should be plenty of light as one points right in the deep end and the other towards the shallow. If I move one to the deep end it seems like the lighting would be more uneven. Should I ask the builder to make them both 500 Watt lights instead of 300 and install a dimmer? Thanks!

Steve

[divnkd101]

I never even thought that the bubbles would cause a problem. The ledge is about 8' long so I would guess the spacing will be 3-4 feet. Do you think that is enough to prevent the issue you are talking about?

This is my first pool so I am not sure how well lights work but I did want to have light without seeing them and that why we moved them to where they are. It would seem like there should be plenty of light as one points right in the deep end and the other towards the shallow. If I move one to the deep end it seems like the lighting would be more uneven. Should I ask the builder to make them both 500 Watt lights instead of 300 and install a dimmer? Thanks!

Steve,
This is where you put yourself in the trick bag. The bubblers I looked at were probably spaced 24-36 inches apart. Without taking away from the look you are going for, I would say the wider the better.

As for lights, I am probably not the one to ask that question. There are several individuals in this forum that can better answer that question. I will tell you that my PB talked me out of spacing my lights too close and I am glad he did. I truly like how the light is dispersed in mine. Obviously, your PB is going to do what you ask him to do but hopefully he is also willing to offer his opinion as well. My advice to you is to ask him to take a look at pools he has constructed (same aggregate finish, lights, etc.) and go look at them in the day and at night. That should help you in your decision making process. Good Luck.

[skamp]

Steve,
This is where you put yourself in the trick bag. The bubblers I looked at were probably spaced 24-36 inches apart. Without taking away from the look you are going for, I would say the wider the better.

As for lights, I am probably not the one to ask that question. There are several individuals in this forum that can better answer that question. I will tell you that my PB talked me out of spacing my lights too close and I am glad he did. I truly like how the light is dispersed in mine. Obviously, your PB is going to do what you ask him to do but hopefully he is also willing to offer his opinion as well. My advice to you is to ask him to take a look at pools he has constructed (same aggregate finish, lights, etc.) and go look at them in the day and at night. That should help you in your decision making process. Good Luck.

I will see how wide we can get them. One of my neighbors has 2 bubblers as well. I will go measure how far apart they are. Also these bubblers are going to be in 6" of water so I am not sure if the problem would be better or worse in deeper water.

I will take a look at some pools at night to see how the lighting looks. Thanks!

Steve

[huskyrider]

Water oscillation most affects pool return eyeball fountains as opposed to foaming fountain jets by a Mfg such as Crystal Fountains.
Do you know which type your pool builder has spec'd in.
My guess is that it's pool returns eyeballs. I say this because if I'm tossing them in to close a deal they're very affordably installed.

I'm curious, how much of an allowance have you been allocated for the fountains?

On another note, I think two 300 lamps placed where they are now will do fine, you could even drop down to two 250's.

See ya,
Kelly

[skamp]

Water oscillation most affects pool return eyeball fountains as opposed to foaming fountain jets by a Mfg such as Crystal Fountains.
Do you know which type your pool builder has spec'd in.
My guess is that it's pool returns eyeballs. I say this because if I'm tossing them in to close a deal they're very affordably installed.

I'm curious, how much of an allowance have you been allocated for the fountains?

On another note, I think two 300 lamps placed where they are now will do fine, you could even drop down to two 250's.

See ya,
Kelly

I will find out about the bubblers. I just looked at the foam jet from crystal and that is exactly the effect I want. He said the bubblers were like $200.00 so I hope they are more then just eyeballs.

I think I am going to go with LED lighting for the pool lights. I think the 2 LED lights in that location will give a nice effect. Thanks!

Steve

[huskyrider]

Try the Hayward Colorlogic lamps. You'll find them to be awesome.

See ya,
Kelly

[skamp]

Try the Hayward Colorlogic lamps. You'll find them to be awesome.

See ya,
Kelly

Kelly,
My PB says they use the intellibrite (http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/lighting/lighting.pdf) from Pentair and claims they are very similar. Do you or anyone else here have any experience with them? Thanks!

Steve

[skamp]

They started today! They are digging the hole and doing the steel. I will post pictures later.

Steve

[skamp]

Kelly,
My PB says they use the intellibrite (http://www.pentairpool.com/pdfs/lighting/lighting.pdf) from Pentair and claims they are very similar. Do you or anyone else here have any experience with them? Thanks!

Steve

I talked with them and they are going to use the color logic LED's lights as per my request.

Steve

[huskyrider]

Congrats on getting started.

You'll find that although any time of year is a good time to start a pool, this is absolutely the best time to do it. We're not that far away from swim season and spring fever purchases are just starting for pool buyers. Right now the scheduling board is very receptive and moving the projects forward is much easier than when things start backing up with scheduling. You'll be swimming in no time at all!!!
Post some pic's for us to enjoy and make sure to try to be home for a little bit of the gunite. You'll find the process to be very exciting.

Although I've never seen the Pentair lights in person all I'd have to say is that they'd have to be very good to compare with the Colorlogics. I've used more different illuminators constructing pools than you could ever imagine. I've found it to be more than just brilliant illumination that makes a great pool lamp. The speed in color changes I've observed from these are unparalleled.

If I can get the MFG to comp some for my pool I'm going to switch out my current SAM lamps. I'm such a dog when it comes to my house, although I can get anything I want for the wholesale cost I refuse to pay their asking prices. I figure with the sum of all my invoices that the minimum courtesy they can extend is to give me stuff for my pool for free!!!
It's one of the perks of the game.

See ya,
Kelly

[skamp]

I was wondering if you guys could weigh in on a pump question/concern. I may cross post this in the equipment forum as well. I talked with by PB them about getting a 2 speed pump and they seemed reluctant but will do it I want to.

I wanted to do this so I could run it on low at night for chlorine generation, etc. The pump they have spec'ed is a 2HP and that is the other reason I want a 2 speed. They also have a 1.5-2HP spec'ed for the water features. I asked about doing a 2 speed on that as well to run the waterfall at a lower rate as opposed to reducing flow via the valve. I have 2 of the foam jet bubbler from crystal fountains and I need a good amount of GPM for those. What would you do in this situation? They use all sta-rite pump so it would be the 2 speed sta-rite controller by either a Pentair EasyTouch or Jandy RS8 (I still have not made up my mind). I really appreciate any help on this!

Steve

[aylad]

This thread has gotten very, very long, and since this question has been posted with several answers in the other forum, I'm going to lock this thread down and ask that any future replies to this thread be done in the other forum. It can be found at http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=6479

Skamp, just as a matter of housekeeping, please don't cross-post the same question in different forums...this forum is already big and hard to keep organized, and it helps your responders get the information they need to answer your questions without repeating information. Thanks!

Janet