Replacing liner; Advice needed!

[JenniferB]

We're in the process of replacing our liner on our 20K IG pool, and I've gotten a couple of bids from some local companies. Two companies offer Fort Wayne liners, which I've of heard before. Two of the others use Plastimayd and Premier as their manufacturers.

I was looking at the warranties for all three manufacturers, and basically I think they all amount to the same thing. (Really, the warranties don't cover all that much, in my opinion.) Just wondering what you have heard, good or bad, about any of those three manufacturers.

Also, we have found out that the reason we need a new liner is because we have many small holes in the bottom of our liner. We had a leak detection company come out, and they said that the holes were casued by tiny rough pebbles/gravel that eventually wore through the liner over time from foot traffic and vacuuming.

When we got our last liner installed five years ago, I thought that the floor felt a little rough, and I even called the installer back then. He said there would be some "settling" over time, and it wasn't uncommon to feel that.

The leak detection company said that unless they tear out the liner and look under there, it's hard to say how the gravel got there. They suspect that the installer didn't do a good job of cleaning up before installation. The installer claims the liner probably floated, and gravel got under there somehow. We always keep an adequate amount of water in our pool, even through the winter, and I have never seen any signs of floating, such as a wrinkled liner.

So what do you think? I personally think the installer is giving us a line, but he said he'd be willing to work out a discounted rate on the new liner if indeed it was his fault.

[CarlD]

He's already shown you he doesn't know how to install a liner. You are replacing after 5 years as a result. How is his repeating his screw-ups going to be cheaper?

BTW, since you KNOW where the leaks are, and they are small, why can't you patch the liner instead? Boxer glue and patch material that matches the liner may WELL give you another 5 years of use.

If you want to do it yourself, you'll probably need a wetsuit. I found one on-line, full length, for about $100. Or you could rent it. Plus a mask (snorkle probably won't help). I also suggest a small rubber roller, like tile installers use.

[Poconos]

When the company found the leaks I'm wondering how many pinholes and did they mark them so you can find them again if you decide to patch? I posted an alternative to Carls wetsuit method a while back. Dug up the thread...post #9 if you're interested.
Al

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=101

Edit: Realized there may be a problems viewing the images. For some reason it appears when you click on the above link you have to log in again to view the pics.
Al

[JenniferB]

Thanks for the responses. Here's the full story. We started noticing water loss last July, and I called leak detection company #1. That guy messed around with us for about 2 months without finding anything (another story for another day -- but thank goodness we didn't give him a dime!), so we called leak detection company #2 around the end of August. They came out with scuba gear, and the guy came up after about 15 minutes and said he stopped counting pinholes after number 20. He said we'd have to get a new liner -- and rather than giving us a bid from his company (they also do pool installs and service), he suggested I go after the original installer. He never marked the holes.

In between leak detection companies #1 and #2, I got in there myself and tried using the patching method you guys have used. I had found one hole roughly the size of an eraser head and attempted to patch that. I also found two more in the process and did those, too. Leaking didn't stop. That's when I called leak detection #2.

Then around Thanksgiving time I went out to check the water level to see if there was any more leaking, and I saw the liner had started to come out of the coping on one end. There's roughly about a foot and a half of water in the pool, and our lowest depth is only about 4.5 feet. The liner is not ripped, but it looks like it just made a clean slip from the coping. Is that considered floating? I would think that a foot and a half of water would still be an adequate amount of water to not cause floating.

At this point, I think I'm ready to cut my losses and move on. I spent a lot of time trying to fix this myself and with the help of others, and I'm emotionally drained. I'd just like to learn more about the differences between the liner manufacturers I posted about, or are they all about the same?

And do you think the installer was feeding me a line when he said my liner floated? Don't you think there needs to be some kind of evidence such as wrinkling? I'm just trying to figure if I have some kind of recourse with this guy.

[Poconos]

Yeah...you're better off with a new liner. When a liner floats it lifts off the bottom...typically. You can feel the water under it as it is squishy. The liner popping out of the bead is probably just due to the fact the water level is real low and stressed it. A liner will float if the ground water level is higher than the level in the pool. If it isn't floating now with the low water level, it probably didn't float to cause the damage. You don't say where you live so I don't have any idea what your ground water situation is like.
As for the liner companies I can't help you there...sorry.
Al

[CarlD]

Ok, that makes sense. Get a new liner. And get a reliable installer, not one you know messes up.

[waste]

Jennifer, (welcome to the forum - I see you've been around a while, but few posts, also, sorry for missing your posts from the summer) the only one of your choices for liners that I have experience with is FT Wayne -- my opinion: they are nice liners but a little hard to get in 'just right' (as an installer; they cut them 'just a bit too large' and working the wrinkles is quite an undertaking - but can be done!). I'm not sure that it would be feasible to drop a liner at this time of year, though I haven't been keeping track of the weather in St. Louis. You also haven't said what kind of bottom you have (it makes a difference for reasons that aren't essential right now, but if you'd care to know, just ask, it's got to do with the cause of the problem).

As for the liner comming out of the bead, it usually happens when there isn't sufficient 'downward pressure' on the bead - cause is usually insufficient (ie 1.5' ) water in the pool or the liner floating. I know from your other threads that the area around the pool is 'wet', but whether that's from the leak, natural drainage (or lack thereof), or a sewer pipe - so I don't know if the liner floated- but if it did, there are almost always wrinkles left behind. FWIW - i doubt the liner floated with leaks in it (think hydrostat).

From what I know right now, my best advice is to remove the cover and let Ma Nature keep a little water in the pool until spring when you can have the liner replaced under more optimal conditions. The liner should prevent the winter and early spring from ravaging the bottom too much, and the temps over 65 allow for properly fixing any problems with the bottom and set the new liner correctly.

Others may have a different 'take' on this, but I've proffered the best advice I can for now. If I can clarify or help anymore, please don't hesitate to ask of me - Waste