Aquarite and the Flow switch

[bethsg]

I opened my pool on Sunday, and had it clear in a few hours... a little CYA, calcium, muratic acid and baking soda later, and I am all my numbers are ready to turn on my SWC.... don't you know I slide the button to on... and I get NO FLOW.... so I stop my pump and remove the flow switch, and check it out... looks good to me, reinstall and still no flow... so I call the 800 #. They immediately told me I needed a new flow switch... this is 4th season for pool, so it's still under warranty... so it's $50... and its in the mail. But what I did learn was while we removed so much during winterization... for some stupid reason, we left the flow switch in place... and that cold/snow freeze isn't apparently good for the phone wire on the flow switch... so I have learned... remove the flow switch.... THanks for listening.. its back to bleach until the new one arrives...

[mrmrk49]

I don't know how the flow "sensor" works, but IF it is just a pressure sensitive micro switch, simply attaching a wire across the terminals would fool the controller.

If anyone reading this can disconnect their flow sensor and ohm it out with/without pump running, that would answer the question.

Is your controller run off the timer controlled pump power (like their manual says it should be)?
That would make the flow switch somewhat academic, except for total pump failure (that doesn't blow the circuit breaker)

Mike K

[Poolsean]

The flow switch has a major safety purpose, it is a precaution to detect proper flow. Without it, or if not properly installed, you can accumulate hazardous hydrogen gasses.
You can jumper the flow switch for the purpose of checking it, but never bypass it for normal operation.

[Poolsean]

Hey Mike,

Do you know where the Saki factory is? I think my sales rep will be taking me there tomorrow (Monday), then some Sushi place called Mikuni. If you're familiar with these places, what am I looking forward to? Good or bad?

[mrmrk49]

The flow switch has a major safety purpose, it is a precaution to detect proper flow. Without it, or if not properly installed, you can accumulate hazardous hydrogen gasses.
You can jumper the flow switch for the purpose of checking it, but never bypass it for normal operation.

Good point about the hydrogen. Although if the flow has stopped, the H2 generation will soon stop also. Restricted flow might let H2 accumulate in pipe/cell though.

But this makes me curious why all the manufacturers use in-line cells instead of the wall mounted like the old "Pure&Clear". I've heard that inline chlorine generators also degrade the pipes . Wall mounted cells is also much easier to clean, and to replace. Only down side is it is subject to damage from kids, etc.

ps if the saki post was to me - wrong Mike

Mike K

[Poolsean]

There's suppose to be a Sake Factory in Sacramento. Probably not too big a factory, I guess.

[Poolsean]

"But this makes me curious why all the manufacturers use in-line cells instead of the wall mounted like the old "Pure&Clear". I've heard that inline chlorine generators also degrade the pipes . Wall mounted cells is also much easier to clean, and to replace. Only down side is it is subject to damage from kids, etc."
In-line cells are the standard. Wall Mounted cells directly in the pool, are called convection cells. Basically running independent of the pump circulation. This is a much more efficient design, but no way to safely install the cell and still maintain an efficient system. AutoPilot had an Indeck convection system with a small power supply that was capable of controlling up to 30,000 gallons for less than $500. But the amount of maintainance needed to ensure proper circulation caused some premature cell failures. IF the indeck canister in which the cell was located in, was maintain weekly, this system would have been perfect. Very similar to the Kreepy Klear, but no cell in the pool to worry about.

Regarding in line systems dedgrading the pipes.... poppycock! Well, unless it is old copper pipes. PVC pipes do have any problems with salt systems, or else 90% of Australian Pools and up to 40 - 60% of pool built last year would be in some sort of disaray.
There is nothing associated with a salt system that would cause any plumbing problems. High chlorine levels will do more damage to the equipment than high salt levels.

[mrmrk49]

Poolsean,

the old Pure&Clear "wall mounted" was actually mounted over a pump return outlet , so it did have flow thru it. One problem was that it had to have a limited flow - my system has a valve to control flow out that particular outlet. It has a pump sensor (magnetic, I think) and looks to have had an option for a flow sensor as well.

Regarding plastic piping - I was referring to the chlorine itself, in somewhat "high" concentrations downstream of the cell, degrading the pipe, resulting in "stuff" coming out into the pool

[Poolsean]

The Pure N CLear was designed to operate when the pump was on utilizing a noise sensor. This sensor was mounted on the pipe by the equipment. This was prone to false signals, such as lawnmowers.
This system did not really require the flow for it to operate.
The stuff that you may see coming back to the pool and looks like white flakes, which I can see may look like the inside of pipe deteriorating. It is calcium scale coming off the cell.

[mrmrk49]

The Pure N CLear was designed to operate when the pump was on utilizing a noise sensor. This sensor was mounted on the pipe by the equipment. This was prone to false signals, such as lawnmowers.
This system did not really require the flow for it to operate.
The stuff that you may see coming back to the pool and looks like white flakes, which I can see may look like the inside of pipe deteriorating. It is calcium scale coming off the cell.

Noise sensor ? I think this one is magnetic:. sensor is glued on to the pump itself, seems to work very good: a few mVAC with pump off, 100m VAC @60Hz with pump on. Doesn't have any voltage applied to it, 1 side capacitively coupled to comparator circuit, other tied to local ground.

I did notice that the unit operates whether the pump is on or not, and was trying to troubleshoot that problem. I don't have the schematics, but I've traced out the relevent portion of the circuitry. Looks like a bad IC6 (LM2903), but even if I replace that, I don't see how the circuit will work - it looks like a basic desing error - needs a diode in signal path.

re pipes: yeah, that makes sense

MikeK

[bethsg]

In follow up to my flow switch problem... the new one came in the mail this week... quick removal of old and installation of new.. and its works perfectly... I think the problem was with the cord which runs from the flow switch to the electronic unit... we were stupid and left it out over winter and it got wet froze, etc... even the directions say to remove both the cell and the flow switch during winterization... we only removed the cell. Aquarite was wonderful on the phone.. it was actually still under warranty, so we paid a pro rata amount for new flow switch. Interestly enough.. the new flow switch has a different type of wire now, than the flat phone type wire on the previous flow switch.