Do you insure your AG Pool?

[NWMNMom]

Wondering if anyone insures their pool for damages (tree falling on it or hail or ???) I would assume any company would exclude damage to the liner as that is an assumed risk, but I worry about a tornado or tree falling or something like that causing structural damage. I think if it is not specifically listed in the homeowner policy, it is not covered. Does anyone know anything about this topic?

[matt4x4]

Mine's covered automatically, not sure if that's through contents coverage or my outbuilding coverage, but it's covered.

[CarlD]

If you have homeowner's insurance and you followed the building rules of your town, you should be insured. If you skipped getting a building and electrical permit, and you were required to, your insurance company is probably not obligated to pay you for the damages.

That's why when putting up ANY pool, you should be sure to following the building regs for your town.

[sevver]

Not only did I put it up without a permit, but I ran electric and gas without one. :eek: And put in a brick sidewalk too.:eek: :eek:

[CarlD]

Yup. And if ANYTHING happens, your H/O insurance may well deny your claim, especially damage--they can do that if it's not a compliant structure. I don't know if that includes personal injury insurance.

[CoffeeBean]

This gives me something new to think about since our pool and decking is surrounded by trees.

Maybe this is a dumb question but...We did have a permit to build but that was 3 years ago and I've tossed the thing since it was completed. How would anyone know if you had one or not?

Our town doesn't have any regs for building an AG pool other than to have a fencing system which we have.

CoffeeBean

[CarlD]

Your town will have your permit on record. You can get a copy of it if you need it.

[NWMNMom]

We live out in the country and there are no building permits for this sort of thing out here. We don't even have to get one to build a house out here! Unbelievable but true. We do have to have a licensed electrician working for the electric company hook up electricity from the roadside pole to the pole in the yard intially for a new yard setup or the electric company will not turn on the juice but other than that, we are on our own. Scary thought that anyone can build anything out here, but pretty much true. The insurance company requires a licensed electrician to certify that our pole to house and circuit setup in the house wiring meets state standards and thats it.

I know that certain things are required to be "listed" on some insurance policies and I just looked at ours, there are a lot of things listed separately like tools, snowmobiles, etc., so I wonder if this needs to be too? I guess I should call them.....Big wind and a tree falls on it, we are soooo screwed. I'm betting it won't be covered unless we have them list it.

[CoffeeBean]

Thanks CarlD. Guess I should contact my insurance company about this one. After all the sweat and worry - not to mention expense - we've put into our pool, I'd hate to have it wiped out by a falling tree.

[ivyleager]

We live in NC, and were told by our insurance company that if we did not have a (minimum) 4 foot fence around the pool, that our pool would not be covered; and they have the option of dropping or terminating our coverage if their reg's were not followed. They did not care if it was an IG or AG pool. They didn't care if it was built with permits or by regulations. Their policy is that it is a LIABILITY on your property, and needs to be dealt with accordingly. They even didn't care if it had a diving board, believe it or not. However, if that changes, I'm on their list to be called. Anyway, our insuance went up a whoppping $24/year! However, our boat trailer raised our homeowners's premium $56/year.

We've been using the same insurance company for +10 years and have a pretty good relationship with the agent. When we have a question, whether it is on an automobile or one of our various homes, I always start the conversation with: "now hypothetically speaking", and always receive sound advice. You may want to speak candidly to your agent.

[AnnaK]

I think if it is not specifically listed in the homeowner policy, it is not covered. Does anyone know anything about this topic?

I know a little. I was an insurance company exec in a former life. Your HO policy has an automatic coverage extension for detached structures; the amount is a percentage of the main dwelling coverage and varies by company and type of policy, i.e., a standard fire policy will have a lower coverage extension than a package policy. Most HO policies are package policies.

The presence or absence of a building permit does not negate coverage but it will impact the amount you can recover in case of loss. If, for instance, you have replacement cost coverage and want to invoke that, you will have to replace or repair the damages under current building codes. If you don't invoke replacement cost, the insurance company will depreciate the structure based on its age, materials used, and workmanship, and you may come in at under your deductible.

Look at the declarations page on your last renewal notice. It will show the amount of coverage for 'outbuildings' or 'detached structures'. That's the amount available, in theory, to replace or repair anything that's not physically attached to the main dwelling. If you have a deck attached to the house and the pool is connected to the deck, then all of this is considered the main dwelling. Make sure the amount of coverage is appropriate for what you have.

Most insurance companies require that a pool is fenced or that the property containing the pool is fenced, and that the gate has a locking mechanism. While this may not be spelled out in the contract per se you will have received an endorsement with one of your renewal notices which amends the contract. Insurance companies tend to slip these things in and they always limit your coverage.

However, swimming pools are an 'attractive nuisance' which present an absolute liability. Fenced or not, if you have a serious bodily injury to a third party (not a resident of the premises) your liability coverage will pay. They'll try to deny and they'll give you grief but they will have to pay.

Hope this helps.

[matt4x4]

Yes, Anna is correct, and there's a BIG difference between liability and replacement coverage, one can have one, but not the other, a tree falling on the pool had NOTHING to do with Liability, and everything to do with replacement coverage.
Not having a fence around the pool will have nothing to do with replacement coverage, however it can affect liability insurance coverage.

[AnnaK]

[snip] . . . a tree falling on the pool had NOTHING to do with Liability, and everything to do with replacement coverage.


That depends on whose tree and whose pool it is.

If your tree falls on the neighbor's pool, it's property damage under the liability portion of the HO and is covered for full replacement cost under the tree owner's policy. Ditto if the neighbor's tree falls on your pool.

If your tree falls on your pool, coverage MAY exist under the dwelling portion of your own policy, depending on what caused the tree to fall. Damage subsequent to wind and hail is covered because wind and hail are covered perils. If the soil softened from excessive rain and the tree uproots as a result, it's not covered. Any loss resulting from poor maintenance of the trees (inadequate pruning, for instance) is not covered.

Sigh . . . someone stop me :)

[ivyleager]

That depends on whose tree and whose pool it is.

Sigh . . . someone stop me :)


If it falls and no one hears??????????????

[CoffeeBean]

Thanks to everyone on this thread I contacted my insurance company, USAA, and updated my policies to reflect the existence of the pool. I noted on one of AnnaK's recent posts that soem insurance companies feel that if the deck is connected to the pool it's considered part of the structure. Our AG pool is surrounded by a deck which is the third and lowest tier of our back decking system. Yet USAA considers the deck as part of the house structure but not the pool itself. (If the pool wasnt' there I'd have a big deck with a big hole in the middle.) I thought this was interesting. We do have it fenced but lets face it, if some juvenile delinquent is determined to get in, only 6' chain link and concertina wire may deter them. I'm not ready to go that route yet.

[NWMNMom]

Well I did contact my insurance and it would NOT have been automatically covered as a detached structure because AG pools are not considered permanent structures. We did add it for wind/hail yada yada coverage and guess where it is covered under? INLAND MARINE. Ha!!! lol. Only cost another $12.63 per year. We already have mucho liability coverage. We do have a locking ladder entrance on it and under the state law, AG pools have to be at least 48" AND have other entrance prevention (locking ladder/step entrance) OR have a fence around them, she said we are good to go on the locking ladder.

Now I feel better. Just in case......

[ElleM]

I just recently spoke with State Farm insurance in Pennsylvania and they told me that State Farm no longer covers any kind of above ground pool damage. Her wording to me was, "there's an exclusion clause."

[scsteven]

Our pool is automatically covered in our policy also. However, we had a situation similar to Ivyleager in that we were told that we had to have a fence around our pool. We live in the country and our property is surrounded by fencing, some of it decorative. Our agent found a clause that said if the nearest neighbor is 1200 feet away, then the pool can be exempt from fencing on the pool itself. We have a deck on one side of the pool and it has a gate with a latch on it that can be locked if need be. Didn't count. He came out with a wheel and sure enough, our neighbor is more than 2000 feet away! We were able to keep our coverage with no problems! We pay approx. $850/yr. for a small farm policy.

[badutahboy]

I know a little. I was an insurance company exec in a former life. Your HO policy has an automatic coverage extension for detached structures; the amount is a percentage of the main dwelling coverage and varies by company and type of policy, i.e., a standard fire policy will have a lower coverage extension than a package policy. Most HO policies are package policies.

The presence or absence of a building permit does not negate coverage but it will impact the amount you can recover in case of loss. If, for instance, you have replacement cost coverage and want to invoke that, you will have to replace or repair the damages under current building codes. If you don't invoke replacement cost, the insurance company will depreciate the structure based on its age, materials used, and workmanship, and you may come in at under your deductible.

Look at the declarations page on your last renewal notice. It will show the amount of coverage for 'outbuildings' or 'detached structures'. That's the amount available, in theory, to replace or repair anything that's not physically attached to the main dwelling. If you have a deck attached to the house and the pool is connected to the deck, then all of this is considered the main dwelling. Make sure the amount of coverage is appropriate for what you have.

Most insurance companies require that a pool is fenced or that the property containing the pool is fenced, and that the gate has a locking mechanism. While this may not be spelled out in the contract per se you will have received an endorsement with one of your renewal notices which amends the contract. Insurance companies tend to slip these things in and they always limit your coverage.

However, swimming pools are an 'attractive nuisance' which present an absolute liability. Fenced or not, if you have a serious bodily injury to a third party (not a resident of the premises) your liability coverage will pay. They'll try to deny and they'll give you grief but they will have to pay.

Hope this helps.



A couple of additions to what Anna said:

1. You can eliminate the insurance company's depreciation of your pool by making sure you add two coverages to your policy... you want to add "replacement cost coverage" and "code update coverage". If you don't you if you have these, contact your insurance agent TODAY. you'll be so glad you listened to me when you have a claim!

The coverages do the following:

Replacement cost coverage: As Anna said, the insurance company will depreciate every item you own, based on age and condition, and will pay based on that depreciation. For example, electronics are generally depreciated 30%, even if they're less than a year old. That means the insurance company would only pay you $1400 for that $2000 big screen you bought in january to watch the super bowl on. With replacement cost coverage, they pay you the depreciated value, but when you replace it, you submit your receipts and they pay you the difference. This can absolutely work out in your favor. I had a 13 year old big screen, which I bought from my mom for $200, and the insurance company paid me $2700 towards a new TV.

Code update coverage: It does exactly what it implies. If your house was built to an outdated code, your insurance will only rebuild it to it's prior condition. If there have been updates to the code, you will have to pay for them out of pocket. My basement had been framed with 2x2's, and code now requires 2x4 framing in basements. This update alone would have cost me about $10,000 out of my pocket, had I not had these coverages.

I had a fire in my house 2 years ago, $260,000 claim. We did the math after moving back into the house, and these two coverages saved me approximately $75,000 out of pocket.


Also, FWIW, I contacted my agent yesterday and he said Farmer's Insurance automatically covers your pool on your policy, but your yard has to be completely secure from the street. As long as your back yard is surrounded by a 6 foot fence, you have no issues.

[mohawk]

As far as I know, our pool is not covered. 2 years ago we had a tornado come through our area and it picked up our trampoline and threw it into the neighbors house. Their homeowners covered their house but when I submitted the tramp as part of our claim, the insurance company (ours) said they'ed pay for it, but if I replaced it they would drop our insurance. Since then I haven't wanted to rock the boat.:(

[ElleM]

Ours isn't covered, either. State Farm (in Pennsylvania at least) will not cover any damage to above ground pools. They'll cover if someone gets hurt, but not the pool itself. I went round and round with them just a month or so ago. They suggested I ask a pool dealer if they offer any insurance that can be purchased, lol.

[badutahboy]

Ours isn't covered, either. State Farm (in Pennsylvania at least) will not cover any damage to above ground pools. They'll cover if someone gets hurt, but not the pool itself. I went round and round with them just a month or so ago. They suggested I ask a pool dealer if they offer any insurance that can be purchased, lol.


Suggest to your agent that it'd be easier to find a new insurance company than it will be to find a third party policy just for the pool. They'll work to make exceptions pretty quickly when faced with a loss of business.. at least, if you have enough stuff insured with them.

[ElleM]

Suggest to your agent that it'd be easier to find a new insurance company than it will be to find a third party policy just for the pool. They'll work to make exceptions pretty quickly when faced with a loss of business.. at least, if you have enough stuff insured with them.

Doubtful. State Farm hasn't even settled all it's New Orleans claims under threat of huge lawsuits. I doubt they'd feel threatened by little old me threatening to leave, lol, even though I do have a lot insured with them. The agent can't change corporate policy, anyway. He can't give me something he doesn't have.

[badutahboy]

Doubtful. State Farm hasn't even settled all it's New Orleans claims under threat of huge lawsuits. I doubt they'd feel threatened by little old me threatening to leave, lol, even though I do have a lot insured with them. The agent can't change corporate policy, anyway. He can't give me something he doesn't have.





Heheheeh I'm not trying to flame you or anything... but given the facts you stated, why are you still with state farm?

[JETTA]

When my former pool failed due to ice damage, it was not covered. If a tree had fallen on it or the pool failed due to vandalism, it would be covered.

[NWMNMom]

Well, we know ice damage won't be covered - but we really were concerned about trees falling due to high winds or tornado or other debri hitting it. We had a deer come running full bore out of the woods to sweve away at the last second. If he had hit the pool - mucho damage. Our carrier said, oh that would be covered. We have pretty good coverage, but its a local company and not a big franchised type like our car ins (State Farm) We had dropped them for home coverage and switched to local when they refused to cover lightening strike damages some years back.

[ElleM]

Heheheeh I'm not trying to flame you or anything... but given the facts you stated, why are you still with state farm?


Lol, you're not flaming.

A couple of reasons we're still with them, really. First one, is because I have two teen drivers and we get a huge discount for carrying both our home and auto insurance together. Second, because I've never really had a problem with them before. They've always been very good in paying in my experience (Katrina is whole 'nother matter, yikes). Last year, my father in law drove our lawn tractor over some gravel with the blade down and pelted our house and SUV. The SUV looked like it was riddled with machine gun fire. State Farm paid every penny of the several thousand dollar repair bill and that was off the homeowners insurance.