My pool builder just made me ashamed...

[jnorris]

to say I use Bleach to chlorinate! I've seen posts from others here that get that look when they tell pool professionals they use the BBB method, but this is the first time it's happened to me.

The guy just came back to finish up last minute stuff (from 5 months ago!) and I asked him to take the big tub of Cal Hypo he left me (as a consolation prize for having built me a leaky pool!). I told him I didn't use it, and didn't feel comfortable storing it. He said, well what do you use to shock every week? I said, I don't shock every week, but when I do, I use bleach. He says "LAUNDRY BLEACH?" and I just wanted to hide from him. He says that laundry bleach contains lye that will ruin my liner in a couple of years.

I have trusted all of you all these months, and I feel like no one here would have a reason to steer me wrong, so tell me that I'm not going to ruin my liner because of lye! I use plain, unscented, ultra bleach, and use tri-chlor sticks when I go out of town. I've had a couple of short term instances of mustard algae, which went away when I kept the FC level high enough.

I must say, first of all, before the "bleach" part of the conversation, that he complimented me on how good the pool water looked, and said I must not have had any problems because I didn't call him. He tells all his clients to call him when they get mustard algae and he comes and treats it (with copper, of course). That's why I didn't call him when I had it, because I read here that copper causes other problems.

Please, someone reassure me that I'm doing OK. I get the looks in the grocery store too; I even had a clerk ask me once if I was "cooking meth"!

[Poconos]

Judy,
Relax. No lye in bleach. As for the cal hypo...keep it and use it in addition to bleach if you don't have a calcium problem. Keep it covered and dry and it will last a long time. I use bleach, cal hypo, and pucks as necessary.
Al

[JohnT]

Pool chlorine has lye in it too. NaOH or sodium hydroxide. Breaks down into salt and water in your pool and raises your pH a very trivial amount. Nothing to worry about at all.

[jnorris]

Thanks, Poconos and JohnT, I needed the positive reinforcement. My concern with the Cal Hypo was that we keep it sitting outside, and I know it's bad if moisture gets in there, but to keep it covered, it would have to go in my garage and I didn't want it that close to my house. I guess I'd rather buy small amounts of cal hypo to use if I need to, and just use the bleach and the sticks.

By the way, do people really use bleach to "cook meth"? I wouldn't know about that stuff, and it really threw me for a loop when the store clerk asked me that. I think I feel a little insulted!

[Ohm_Boy]

Gee, I didn't know about the bleach for meth deal. I already go through enough trouble just trying to keep pseudofedrine (Sudofed) for a family of five with allergy and sinus issues - I know that is used as a meth thing, and I have to give Drivers License info every time I buy some. I guess it's just a matter of time before the bleach patrol finds out about that and storms the house... I'll have to mke sure that there are no sniffling kids around the pool.

[CarlD]

Judy:
Bleach contains 5.25% to 6% Sodium Hypchlorite--that's the chlorine and the rest is "inert ingredients"--which means LITERALLY salt water.

Liquid Chlorine sold in pool stores is EXACTLY the same stuff, but it's usually either 6% (ultra bleach) or 10% or 12.5%. But otherwise the ONLY difference is the label.

Bleach or Liquid Chlorine (LC) is the BEST chlorinator you can use (other than a chlorine generator). It adds NOTHING to your water but chlorine--nothing else can make that claim. It doesn't change your pH at all (Chem_Geek had a great thread on why that is) because its high pH is perfectly offset by the acidity of the chlorine's action.

Tri-chlor tablets adds TONS of stabilizer and is super-acidic--and will lower your pH drastically.
Di-Chlor powder also adds stabilizer and lowers pH as well, not as dramatically as Tri-chlor, but definitely.
Cal-Hypo adds lots of calcium to your water. At some point, it will turn it cloudy. That's the GOOD stuff (68%)
Cheap Cal-Hypo (HTH in WalMart) is 48%. The rest is all kinds of stuff that has to dissolve in your water and adds NOTHING of value.
Salt Water Generators are great but cost Boo-Coo bucks and many owners complain that they raise pH so they must constantly add Muriatic acid.

Only LC has NONE of those problems.

Remember: You got this useless tidbit from a guy who built you a LEAKING pool. You already know he's less than competent.

Al (Poconos) and I rarely disagree, but I have to say you must store that Cal-Hypo VERY carefully--it must stay cool and dry because Cal-Hypo is the most re-active of the chlorine forms. I would much rather get a rebate from the builder, or some pool tools I need (like an auto-cleaner) than a bucket of Cal-Hypo. Al's not wrong--we just have a different perspective. I'm not likely to EVER use Cal-Hypo--I'll use Di-Chlor occasionally when I'd like to see my CYA go up.

But on this we agree : LC is the best chlorine source, whether its says "Ultra Strength Laundry Bleach!" or Liquid Chlorine, or Liquid Shock, as long as it's sodium hypchlorite solution.

[jnorris]

Thanks for the reassurance. I'll keep doing what I'm doing. By the way, he also told me that the sticks provide just the right amount of stabilizer for the chlorine in them to use up! How can someone who has been in the business of building pools for so many years not understand the chemical stuff? Is that because they believe what the pool chemical manufacturers tell them?

By the way, he said EVERYONE he knows had a terrible problem with mustard algae this year. Guess so, since he's teaching them to run their pools with high CYA/low Chlorine levels. He seemed really skeptical when I told him I had eliminated my little bit of mustard with high Chlorine levels for several days in a row.

[waste]

Thanks for the reassurance. I'll keep doing what I'm doing. By the way, he also told me that the sticks provide just the right amount of stabilizer for the chlorine in them to use up! How can someone who has been in the business of building pools for so many years not understand the chemical stuff? Is that because they believe what the pool chemical manufacturers tell them?

By the way, he said EVERYONE he knows had a terrible problem with mustard algae this year. Guess so, since he's teaching them to run their pools with high CYA/low Chlorine levels. He seemed really skeptical when I told him I had eliminated my little bit of mustard with high Chlorine levels for several days in a row.
Judy, I believe you're right, on both counts. My boss has a pool and he treats it the same way he tells all his cusomers to treat theirs (he's at least intellectually honest). I am a faithful follower of this forum's advice and know he's not caring for his pool as well as he could. However, he checks his water daily and adjusts the chems when needed. (as per Carl's advice)
The 'pool guys' aren't neccessarily selling BS when they give thier advice, it's what they've been taught and what has worked for many people for many years. They aren't chemists nor (usually) college educated (at least with a degree pertenant to pools), they go with what the 'old-timers' told them, or what they learn from the NSPI. What is great about this site is that Ben took a step back and saw that all that info wasn't working and applied himself to finding out what would work. His results are the basis for this forum, a better way to care for a pool, which is also less expensive. I believe that most 'pool dudes' aren't malicious when they give their recommendations, just 'clueless' and acting on 'autopilot' from their experience and what they were taught.
What you may want to do is turn your pool guy onto www.poolsolutions.com and see if he's willing to change his ways.

[joliecharlie]

Hi Judy,
I LOL at the comment the store clerk made...was it at Aldi's in Florence? We went to Aldi's when I was visiting Florence during the summer and my Dad said "they probably think you are making a bomb or Meth" buying 4 cases of bleach...
Wish we had Aldi's here, that .99 ultra bleach is hard to find!

[jnorris]

Hi Judy,
I LOL at the comment the store clerk made...was it at Aldi's in Florence? We went to Aldi's when I was visiting Florence during the summer and my Dad said "they probably think you are making a bomb or Meth" buying 4 cases of bleach...
Wish we had Aldi's here, that .99 ultra bleach is hard to find!

Nope, it was in Bi-Lo. Believe it or not, I've never been in Aldi's. I should check it out though, I usually pay around 1.69 for a jug of Bi-Lo's generic ultra bleach.

[Spensar]

LOL! I never say the word bleach in the presence of any pool store person. If they ask I say liquid chlorine, which is true. Where I get it is not there biz.

I did get a chuckle when checking the price at a pool store that sells you a carboy they refill that when I asked what percentage it was the person said 10% - much higher than 5.25% bleach.

[CarlD]

You can test the strength of the liquid chlorine yourself. Simply add 1 ml of the LC to 10 liters of CLEAR water (5 soda jugs).

Or, if you have Ben's older PS232 kit, there's a 1.8ml measure--add that much to 5 gallons of clear water--a standard bucket.

Use Ben's FAS-DPD to measure the chlorine concentration in the 10 liters or 5 gallons. If you get 12.5ppm, then your LC is 12.5%. If you get 10ppm, it's 10%.

Carboys may be marked 12.5% and be anything from 10% to 14.5%--but if you just got the carboy, and it's below 10% go back to the pool store and complain--they aren't storing it correctly and you aren't getting your money's worth.

I just discovered this season they make a spigot for the carboys.:D But boy, did I feel DUMB that I never noticed it before!:eek: It makes life SO much easier!

[jnorris]

LOL! I never say the word bleach in the presence of any pool store person. If they ask I say liquid chlorine, which is true. Where I get it is not there biz.

.

You know, I tried that. When he said, what do you use, I said "Liquid Chlorine" and he looked at me puzzled and said, from where, and by that time I was intimidated and said in a mumbled voice "bleach" and he said "LAUNDRY BLEACH??" I just wanted to run and hide! Now all I need is for him to make my husband doubt I know what I'm doing. My husband knows nothing about the pool chemistry stuff, but tells me each and every time he swims "the water looks great, no chlorine smell, doesn't hurt my eyes" etc.

[CarlD]

I guess I'm just getting old and ornery. NOBODY in a store intimidates like that.

Just remember: YOU are the customer. THEY want your money. You DON'T have to give it to them.

Rule 1: The Customer is ALWAYS right.
Rule 2: When the Customer is wrong, Rule 1 applies.
Rule 3: If the Customer is wrong, and Rule 1 does not apply, then the Customer will become an EX-Customer.
Rule 4: An EX-Customer is worth 10 current Customers, as in: One "Aw, nuts, these guys are terrible" undoes 10 "Yeah, these guys are great!". (check out eBay--1 neg is actually the equivalent of 100 positives!)

If the clerk doesn't know what Liquid Chlorine is, YOU can say "You mean YOU don't know what liquid chlorine is? I thought ALL better pool stores carried it!":D

[eljefe281]

A phrase you need to add to your repertoire, for dealing with pool store employees and others of similar stripe:

"What are you, ignorant?"

[KurtV]

I guess I'm just getting old and ornery. NOBODY in a store intimidates like that.


...and as Johnny Castle said, "NOBODY puts Baby in the corner."

[tsandershsa]

By the way, do people really use bleach to "cook meth"? I wouldn't know about that stuff, and it really threw me for a loop when the store clerk asked me that. I think I feel a little insulted!

The answer is no... Bleach is not used in any conversion process for manufacturing methamphetamine. It may be used to cleanup the place afterwards though...:)