zero stabilizer devouring cl?

[tggs]

I have been pouring 1.5 gallons of 6% ultra bleach in the pool in the PM. for the past 3 days. My pool, 12000 gallons fiberglass, readings (wal-mart test kit) each AM prior to sun exposure are:

free cl 1.2
total cl 6
combined cl 4.8
pH 7.8
cya 0

The cl drops to 0 by the late afternoon each day.

I ran out of cya reagent after the initial test, but I'm thinking that the lack of stabilizer is my problem. I need the expert advice of the 'forum' before I put stabilizer in the pool. Where can I purchase some cya reagent? (charleston, SC) If zero stabilizer is the issue, hiow much do I add? Thanks

[CarlD]

No, stabilizer isn't your problem. If your numbers are correct it's clear your problem is there is something you are fighting with your chlorine. That's why your combined chlorine is so high--it's 3x the size of your FC and that's not what you want. Stabilizer isn't the issue, it's whatever you are growing.

Raise FC to 15ppm and keep it there. Check 3x/day to ensure that FC is 15ppm and keep doing that until is doesn't drop. This may take two or three jugs in your pool.

Kill the algae first.

[tggs]

I'm monitoring the pool 3x/day and dosing with bleach I.A.W. with the calculator.

Here are my readings from this AM:

free cl 9
total cl 15
combined cl 6
pH > 15
No CYA reagent

How will I know when the algae is dead ( I can see none in the pool)? I think the answer is when the free cl remains at or about 15 overnight? Then I would need to test for CYA and boost it? Thanks for your help.

[duraleigh]

How are you testing your pool? You've got some numbers that don't seem correct.

I have never seen CC of 6 or pH of 15. Please let us know what you are using to test and I'll bet we can get you fixed up:) :)

[chemicalbalance]

check Ben's FAQ on spring startup problems. Addresses situation with 0 CYA and high chlorine consumption...

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=190

[mwsmith2]

No, stabilizer isn't your problem.

Huh????

I'm not exactly sure why you say this. Stabilizer is obviously a HUGE part of the problem here. Even if this person had absolutely 0 CC, and nothing growing in the pool, the sun would nuke the chlorine residual to absolutely nothing in a very short while. Pouring Cl in at this point is almost pointless as the sun destroys the Cl almost as fast as you put it in. This pool desprately needs some stabilizer to help the Cl last long enough to take care of the CC problem.

tggs: You need to add 3 pounds of CYa to get you to around 40 ppm, which will definitely help out with taking care of your CC problem. Also, get back to us on the pH reading like duraleigh says.

Michael

[tggs]

I was following the directions that I was given initially. This morning's stated pH should have been > 8.2. ( I've must be breathing too much bleach) I'm using a Wal-mart testing kit. I used the 'shot glass' method to arrive at the numbers this AM i.e. 1 shot pool water to 2 shots distilled. The dilution this AM read:
free cl 3 x3=9
total cl 5x3=15
combined 2x3=6 or 15-9=6
pH >8.2

I multiplied all numbers by three (except pH) since I used the shot glass method to arrive at the numbers above. As stated the pH I posted this AM was an error. Are my other numbers being miscalculated as well?

My numbers this PM using the s. glass method are:

free cl 4.5
total cl 9
combined cl 4.5
pH 7.6

I do not have any reagent to measure cya, but it was 0 the first day I took the readings in my initial post of this thread. Please set me straight. Are my numbers correct? Should I add 3 lbs cya? Thanks for your help.

[brent.roberts]

I agree with the posts above that you really need to get some CYA into the water. But this is not an instant fix. CYA takes several days to disolve. You will need to test again so get some more reagent.

But go carefully. Lots of people seem to misinterpret the CYA test results. Then you can be in a bigger mess because the only way to lower CYA is to drain and refill. If you think you might be misinterpretting the test then maybe add a quarter of the CYA dose, wait a few days and test again and should see some reading. You don't need to test every day. This stuff goes in slowly and sticks around forever, so save your reagent and wait a few days before you test again.

Before this, what have you been using to chlorinate the pool ?

[duraleigh]

tggs,

Let's take an issue at a time and see if we can't get you going.:) :)

pH - I'm gonna' disregard that 15 (even the corrected >8.2) and assume your pH is somewhere around 7.6 - 7.8. please confirm that with another test. If so, you're okay for now.

Cl - This is where I think the biggest mix up is occuring. The shot glass method you are using is only applicable to an OTO test and that test measures TC ONLY. I'm not sure how you arrived at the FC and CC but I'm pretty sure those numbers are wrong. Describe your Chlorine test and we'll get that straight.

CYA - I agree completely with your first post....CYA is your primary issue and the reason your Cl reading goes to zero every day. Do not put in 3 lbs. Put in 1.25 lbs. You can get it at Lowe's, Home Depot, or the pool store. It will take a few days to dissolve so don't backwash.

Now, because your CYA will take a while to start protecting your Cl, your Cl will still drop to zero every day. I'd put in one of the .75 gal jugs of Clorox right at Sundown each evening for the next few days. Pretty soon, you'll be able to detect some TC in your pool even after a full day of Sun. That means your CYA is working. You should post up your numbers again at that point.

Keep reading everything you can on this forum. I also like this site for some good info: http://www.deh.enr.state.nc.us/ehs/chem.htm#ta

Stay the course......this will get easy.:)

[mwsmith2]

Good call, Dave. I should have mentioned that it looks like it'll take 3# of stabilizer, but to put half in first, wait 5 days, then test. It takes forever for CYA to dissolve. After the 5 days, test, and then re-evaluate how much you need to put in to get to 40 ppm. You want to do partial additions, mainly because once CYA is in your pool, it's a real bugger to get out.

However, even though your Cl is getting nuked by the sun, don't stop putting it in. I would do your Cl additions at sundown (or when your pool isn't getting direct sun) to maximize the time that your Cl will stay in the pool. Once the CYA starts helping out with the Cl, you should be able to keep some residual.

Michael

[duraleigh]

Hey, Michael,

Actually, I may be all screwed up on that CYA dose. I looked at the chart for CYA dosage on that website I like and it calls for 1.25 lbs to bring 12,000 gal up to 40. It didn't seem like enough to me so I just rechecked and that's what it says. I know your Calc calls for 3 lbs. I've only added CYA twice to my pool ( used the dose off the side of the box ) but 3 lbs seems more reasonable than 1.25.

Here's the website: http://www.deh.enr.state.nc.us/ehs/chem.htm#ta

I'm gonna check some other numbers and try to sort this out.

Well, I just looked more carefully and the chart for CYA on the NC website is bogus. It looks like portions of the table are reversed where they actually call for LESS CYA to increase by 30 than to increase by 40!!. Obviously they transposed some numbers.

As always, trust Michael's calculator

[tggs]

I started learning and using the 3 B's process at the begining of last season and only use bleach to chlorinate now. The pool is a 12000 gal fiberglass with cartridge filter. My water is clear and has been; my cl levels won't hold constatnt i.e. are dropping and that is why I initially asked about the stabilizer. It sounds like I need stabilizer as I suspected. I can not find a source for the stabilizer reagent locally. Leslie's said they'll have it by the middle of next week. I'm inclined to put in 1.5 lbs of stabilizer ( acquired at Wal-Mart) and then check cya next week when I acquire the reagent.

I use a Wal-Mart test kit to calculate my cl. Using the shot glass method gives me free cl when I'm 'shocking' per cya levels on the best guess calculator. Can I read total cl by waiting for two minutes while the color fully develops and then subtract the free cl reading to arrive at combined cl even while using the s. glass method? That is the method that I have been using. Maybe I don't understand the s. galss method, although it seemed to work last year.

[waterbear]

I started learning and using the 3 B's process at the begining of last season and only use bleach to chlorinate now. The pool is a 12000 gal fiberglass with cartridge filter. My water is clear and has been; my cl levels won't hold constatnt i.e. are dropping and that is why I initially asked about the stabilizer. It sounds like I need stabilizer as I suspected. I can not find a source for the stabilizer reagent locally. Leslie's said they'll have it by the middle of next week. I'm inclined to put in 1.5 lbs of stabilizer ( acquired at Wal-Mart) and then check cya next week when I acquire the reagent.

I use a Wal-Mart test kit to calculate my cl. Using the shot glass method gives me free cl when I'm 'shocking' per cya levels on the best guess calculator. Can I read total cl by waiting for two minutes while the color fully develops and then subtract the free cl reading to arrive at combined cl even while using the s. glass method?
In theory, yes. In actual practice using OTO reagent to test for FC is highly inaccurate, 'shotglass method' or not! It is really only a test for TC. DPD is a test for FC. If you don't want to spend the bucks for an FAS-DPD test kit you can get in inexpensive DPD kit to do your FC (both Taylor and LaMotte have them, Lamotte has one that only tests FC--no TC-- and pH for about $12), use the OTO to do your TC and use the 'shot glass method' with both to read higher levels with less accuracy. (necessary with DPD since it will 'bleach out' at chlorine levels > about 10 ppm)
That is the method that I have been using. Maybe I don't understand the s. galss method, although it seemed to work last year.
IMHO, Best thing is to get an FAS-DPD test kit for your chlorine and save the OTO for quick daily (in a perfect world!:rolleyes::D) checks of chlorine levels