Frustration and Anxiety are getting to me

[webfeet]

My deck has reddish streaks from red sand put in concrete mixture. I called the concrete company the PB used and they said that red sand is all they have. Then I called another local concrete company in town, and they use a light beige sand- what you think of as being a sand color. Shouldn't the builder be responsible for providing me with a solid colored plain concrete deck that is at least all the same color??? I started a thread asking for help with the red streaks, but I don't know if any one has any ideas or not. I am afraid muratic acid may make it worse. I don't know anything about acid wash.

I am very unhappy with the streaky deck. What is more, I still have to deal with PB concerning the unlevel liner issue. I am waiting until he finishes everything else and then I will address liner, and deck, if he has not corrected the problem. He was suppose to have finished two days ago. He hasn't showed up the last 2 days. My bloodpressure is up. Since the PB also does the stamped concrete finishes, I wonder if he thought the red streaks would get me to buy the stamped work? I think he should make the deck all one color at his expense. But I don't want red- its the color of rust.
Am I unreasonable? Please tell me.
Furthermore, I'm worried about the ground settling. He claims the deck is floating on the concrete sand and will not crack. I think the sand will settle. Right now, there are only hairline cracks at the corners of pool, only appear to be surface. But I have nightmares about large cracks that swallow me up!
On a positive note, I still owe him about $6000.00 minus any deducts for the deck and liner. Exasperated ( misspelled?) Web

[wbrady]

A red deck is unacceptable. Luckily you have not made your final payment and have something to hold over the PB head. I would fight for what is right. PB needs to make the corrections at his expense. You are not being unreasonable. Good luck.

[Poconos]

Take a lot of pictures and make sure they are time and date stamped. Even to the extent of photographing newspaper headlines in the scenes, just in case this winds up in front of a judge. Anything to prove the time/date the pics were taken.
Al

[y0manda]

should of acid stained it. might be too late now since the acid will act differently with each shade of the red concrete. Me personally I don't like colored concrete I like natural grey, then acid washed and apply a good sealer.

[webfeet]

Thanks for the responses. I have set the date and time on my camera.

[webfeet]

PB says he is done with job. He is coming back tomorrow or next week with his total bill. We had extra concrete work and he said that he has not calculated sq ft yet. He did remove some of the rough areas behind the liner today. However, after he left, I counted 17 (each one is about the size of a large shelled whole cashew nut) rough spots or rocks about 36 to 38 inches from the top edge of the pool.. They are spread out over about a 5" x 30" area near the bottom of the polymer wall on the deep end.They will not flatten out when I push on them with my thumb.
PB says there is nothing that can be done to remove the stains on the deck- that we'll just have to wait for the stains to fade. Sure, okay, and I'm thinking - you can wait to be paid, too, until the stains fade! We have a concrete specialist coming out tomorrow for a second opinion on stains, hairline cracks, and today I noticed the deck had separated from the steps and spa- just a hairline break of the seal. The deck is less than one week old! PB plans to come back with final bill tomorrow evening, but we may put him off. However, we are waiting to confront him with our complaints until after he presents us his final bill. We don't want him to try to up it- when he gets mad.
Oh yeah, did I mention that our contract specified a side mount 500 lb hayward filter? But we got a top mount. PB claims that Hayward quit making the side mount. We called the distributor that was on the address label, and he said the filter is still available, and that he had 3 in stock! Can't wait to see the look on the PB's face when we tell him that! Distributor informed me that the filter I got cost the PB about 180 bucks less, than the one we had specified in the contract. I could go on and on and on. :mad:

[webfeet]

Well, we met with PB today. He came to get his final draw, or so he thought. We voiced our concern ( dissatisfaction) with the red streaks, uneven liner, wrong filter, and rough poolcrete on walls. PB went home empty handed.
First, however, he tried to insist that there was no fix for the red streaks, and that they would fade in time. So, I said, "Well, if they fade in time, you will get paid in time." (I know I should not have said that, but I have been unable to discuss anything with him during the construction. He always blew me off.) Wow, that got his attention! But he tried to put the blame on the concrete company. I said, "I contracted you to do this job, and you may need to go back on the concrete company, but as far as I'm concerned, the buck stops with you."
Then, all of a sudden, he came up with a fix! He wants to spray a gray colored epoxy finish on the deck. We told him to get us some pictures of what our deck will look like aftewards and tell us exactly what he will be using. We will need some input from you experts on the forum about any of 'his' fixes and products. He is not to do anything to our deck until we approve it first.
Finally, we also told him that he needs to think about what consideration (financial) he can give us for the uneven liner and the wrong filter. We did not suggest or demand any specific amount. Ultimately, we told hime to go home and consider his options. Needless to say, he wasn't a happy camper when he left. But, I feel better!
I will not feel so good, if I end up in court. In my experience no one comes out on top. If we go to court, it wil be an emotional and financial toil on everyone. I'll keep you posted. Webfeet

[webfeet]

PB is threatening to tear pool out and file a lien on our house. He has never paid the $1700.00 he owes the concrete co. We contacted an attorney and he assures us that our complaints are justified. We haven't been able to do our acid stain test yet. We are getting bids from different companies to fix the deck. I can't seem to post any pictures, but if I can, I will post some of unlevel liner and stains on deck. I had some of the stains on another thread, but I have some that are better.

[waste]

Web, congrats on becoming a "senior member" with your last post ! :)
We've 'discussed' your pool in many threads, and I've given you my honest oppinion of what's happened. You know that I know the 'ins and outs' of pool construction, if a notarised letter from me would help your case, let me know (my brother is a lawyer and can help me with the wording, and my boss' wife is a notary public) - however, since I hav'nt personally inspected the pool, I don't know if it would be admissable or helpful.
Please know that I am TRUELY sorry that it's gotten to the point that the legal system is involved. (BTW, PB can not come onto your property and remove anything - I've suggested to 2 of my bosses to just go and take the multiport [on folks that won't pay] and have been told by both that 'it's not legal')
Know that I will continue to help you in any way I can (have you shown your attorny the threads from here?)

Best of luck!!!!!!! - Ted

[No Need]

Post a couple of pics of the concrete and pool. I'd like to see the color.

[webfeet]

here is a link to some pictures. (I hope) Thanks to everyone for their support. At this time, I have not mentioned the poolforum to the attorney. What I need now are quotes for applying something like sundek or another suitable coating, but I am having problems finding contractors in our area.

http://s145.photobucket.com/albums/r237/kjt89/

[CarlD]

I couldn't see where the concrete is separating. If I were you that would be my BIG point. The liner having a few wrinkles, well, that's hard to avoid. The wrong liner? That's either his cost replacement or a big discount.

The stains on the concrete may well fade--they almost look like red clay. It's possible a chlorine wash may clear them, but I don't recommend it at this point.

Concrete separation says to me that a) the ground wasn't prep'ed correctly and will get worse b) the re-bar or wire wasn't done correctly c) the concrete was too wet or too dry and not properly floated in to get out all the air or d) the concrete had the wrong formula. Or all of the above. The concrete specialist was a great idea.

As for tearing out your pool and putting a lien on your house, that's a threat. He CAN put a lien on it but if you've documented everything, and, more importantly, have started the legal process, it won't stand.

Also, if you have decided that he is NOT competent to continue, then you can forbid him to step on your property . Then if he tries to tear out the pool it may be trespassing or even criminal trespassing.

I HATE a contractor who screws up and tries to slime his way out of responsibility. I've had it with a kitchen designer/installer--I held back the last payment, but I had it SO well documented that I was within my contractual rights that I never heard from him. I also had it with a roofer whose brand new install leaked. After a while they wouldn't take my calls.

I'm sorry you are going through this...when a dream becomes a nightmare.

[webfeet]

I hope several of you view the pictures, and let me know what you think. The stains do not show up as well on the computer screen as they do in real life. It does kind of look like red clay, but no clay here, just sand. We've tried power washing, and several concrete cleaners to no avail.
I am sorry if I gave the impression that the concrete is seperating and/or that I have the wrong liner or wrinkles. I do have a few hair line cracks-but everyone seems to think that they are just surface cracks.
On the other hand, I have a stained deck, and an a slightly unlevel pool, just enough to cause part of the liner border on the deep end to be under water, while the same section is above water on the shallow end. At first inspection,it looks like there is a flaw in the border. Upon close inspection, ( see waterline in the closeup pictures of the border) you can see that part of the border is submerged.

I also received a topmount instead of a sidemount filter,which costs quite a bit more than the sidemount..

[Katybug92]

I paid for a color to be added to mine and didn't get it to show. They did add the color, and it looked great when pouring. But the temperature was to be very cold that night and they put heated tarps on it. This was to prevent it from drying and freezing to quickly. What happened was that the heated tarps drawed all the calcium in the concrete to the top. It is very white now. No power washing or scrubbing has helped. We did try a small area of diluted Muratic acid on it to remove the calcium. It worked too good. The area has a peachy color now. The PB refunded my concrete money.

Time has helped somewhat. There are a few places in the high traffic areas that the color is starting to show better.

Yours looks very similiar to what mine does on most of the decking. Did they goof and add some color?

[Tishabiondy@natlmail.com]

I think the red streaks look kind of cool, but if you don't like it you shouldn't have to pay for it.

tisha

[CanuckPool]

Could it be that your liner has stretched in the deep end, thats what happened to ours, to make sure, measure from the top of the water to the deck in the deep end and and compare that to shallow end measurement. If they are the same then your pool is level. It may just be the weight of the water in the deep end has stretched your liner so it looks like its more underwater than the shallow end. You can also measure the border of the liner Shallow vs. deeper to see it the pattern has stretched.

[CarlD]

You can use a laser level or even a water level to ascertain if and how much the pool is out of level--which it should not be. A water level is easy to make--a long piece of clear plastic tubing--3/8" to 1/2" will do fine. Just fill it with water and with a helper, hold the water level in the tube even with the measuring point at the end you think is high, and see how much it measures off at the end you think is low. 1/2" should be the maximum.

If they are simple surface cracks, well, I guess that's probably normal.

[webfeet]

We have used the laser level, and yes the pool is about 3/4 inch out of level, varies a little based on where you shoot the pool level. What the pictures show is:
there is about 3/4 to 1 inch difference in where the water level crosses the border from end to end. If you could see the pool, you would see a gradual decline in the border from about the middle of the pool to the deep end. The border just starts to disappear.
The stains look like rust or red clay. No, there was not any dye in the mix. You wouldn't like it, if you saw it in person. The deck looks dirty.
I'm not ready to consider just a refund on the concrete, because to have it fixed correctly will probably cost more than the concrete did.:eek:

Thanks for the input. I need all that I can get..

[webfeet]

Katybug, I saw some pictures of your pool on another thread. Yours is more blotchy looking, and mine tends to have more streaks.
I like the way your concrete comes up over the edge of the steps and and it looks like it serves as coping, too. I wonder if I could have another layer of concrete poured on top of my deck and made to look like yours? Does anybody know?

[divnkd101]

Web,

My folks had a similar issue with PB/ contractor. IG gunite pool was 1 to 1-1/2" out of whack (level). Furthermore, they also poured the deck wrong. Long story short... They had everything well documented as it appears you do as well. They obtained several quotations to complete the process from other contractors. A formal letter was written to the PB explaining all of the problems including all domcumentation they had and what was expected of the PB to complete the job he was hired to do. Notice was given to the PB that if demands were not met that the next form of communication would be in front of a judge in small claims court. My folks ended up with a level pool and a nice looking deck from the original PB. Not sure if you have reached that breaking point yet but put the stress back on your PB. The build is not correct and you are not satisfied with the outcome. Good luck and keep us posted.

[webfeet]

I haven't posted recently, so I thought I would update anyone that is interested. I have hired an attorney and he will be filing a suit against our PB in the next couple of weeks. The PB would not respond to the BBB or our attorney's letters.

[No Need]

I hate hearing stories like this! I hope the lawyer can get this resolved quickly, Summer will be here before you know it. Good Luck!

Definately post all updates.

[Poconos]

Absolutely all updates will be appreciated. Unfortunately more people over time will run into similar problems and information like this is very helpful. I sincerely hope it works out to your satisfaction.
Al

[Sardian]

an a slightly unlevel pool, just enough to cause part of the liner border on the deep end to be under water, while the same section is above water on the shallow end. At first inspection,it looks like there is a flaw in the border. Upon close inspection, ( see waterline in the closeup pictures of the border) you can see that part of the border is submerged.

..

Looking at your photos I would say your liner has stretched more on the deep end than the shallow, which is quite common. My pool is actually worse than the photos you posted, it doesn't bother me at all and I expected it from other pools I have seen. My pool is level though.

As far as the red streaks, that I wouldn't have, but I don't think I would have him tear it all up and start over. I'd try to work out some sort of coating on the concrete. I actually plan doing some sort of coating to mine anyway.

Russell

[webfeet]

Another update. The suit against the PB was finally filed about 2 weeks ago, and the PB is calling my lawyer (representing himself, I guess) offering to try to settle out of court. I figured when he got slapped with a suit that he would get ready to talk. We're negotiating and I will let everyone know if we reach an agreement. Its been really stressful and I will be glad when it is over with.
In the meanwhile, we have had the yard sodded, and a sprinkler system installed, done some landscaping, and --we built a pool house (very primitive - we call it the pool shack.) My camera is broken, but when I get a new one, I'll try to post some new pictures.

Webfeet

[topnotch]

As a GC for many years Ive been in this stomach turning situation too many times...someone turns out a so-so job and asks for all his money. Usually I am in the middle between him and you and frankly at the end you have to look at what you got and whether it is servicable and what the imperfections are worth to you....29 years I have been negotiating these things and (touch wood) never had to be in court or pay ten cents to a lawyer...no contractor or customer is perfect and no pools are perfect.....you just want to maintain a good relationship with all parties if its possible. If he's talking about coming back to spray epoxy over the deck he sounds like a guy who takes responsibility. He needs to be given every opportunity to remedy his work. You are really not allowed to break the contract and hire someone else to fix it unless he has been negligent and refuses to discuss remedies.

I hope you and he are people of good faith and the couple of things at the end can be worked out. I can really be an SOB on the job when I need to be but building my own pool has been a humbling experience and I am living with some imperfections and still really enjoying my pool. I have to be honest....as a contractor there are so many, so many ways to cheat a customer with poor workmanship that the color of the sand sounds minor if he did an excellent job on everything else. BTW I wonder if down the road you would use cool paint on the concrete anyway? Also it makes me wonder if the references he gave you had any problems or do they still have a cordial relationship with him and continue to refer him? The serviceable life of the pool and the cost of ownership over time are significant issues here.

Best of Luck