I need a pump lesson please

[gordonhyde]

Besides price and warranty, what are the pros and cons of each? Is the NorthStar worth the extra money? How efficent are these diffrent pumps?


NorthStar Pump by Hayward
The NorthStar features a 1 year warranty on the pump housing and a 3 year warranty on the motor.
NorthStar 1 1/2h.p. # Haysp4015ns 220v $429.95

TriStar High Performance Pump
Warranty?
Hayward 1.5hp 115/230v EE TriStar Pump $394.95

Hayward Super 2 pump
Super2 has a 1 year warranty on the pump housing and a 2 year warranty on the motor.
Super 2 Pump, 1 1/2 H.P. #SP-3015EEAZ 115/230 $399.95

Hayward Super Pump
The warranty is 1 year on the pump housing and 2 years on the motor.
Super Pump 1 1/2 h.p. # SP2610X15 115/230 $322.95

Hayward Max-Flo Inground Pool Pump
The warranty is 1 year on the pump housing and 2 years on the motor.
Max-Flo 1 1/2 H.P. Pump #SP-2810X15 115/230 $249.95

[gordonhyde]

my pool specs (we start digging in 3 weeks)
38k gals
2" pipe

Full rated vs max rated? humm

[mas985]

The easiest way to compare pump efficiencies is to look at each pump's head curve. You will notice that for a given head, the Northstar will have the highest flow of any of the pumps listed which also means the shortest run time for a given turnover. The extra money spent on the Northstar will probably pay for itself in the first year.

Also, for an 8 hour turnover, you only need 80 GPM so 1 1/2 HP may be too much pump. 80 GPM for the Northstar is over 70 feet of head which is very unlikely if you are using at least 2" pipes.

To learn more about pumps, head, turnover and other issues, I recommend this site as a primer.

http://poolplaza.com/pool-pump-sizing-2.shtml
http://www.poolplaza.com/pump-ratings.shtml

[tphaggerty]

The Hayward SuperPump is very LOUD. I am replacing mine (only one year old! - you want to buy it??) with a super high efficiency Ikeric multi-speed pump. Very expensive to buy, but much cheaper to run and supposedly very quiet.

The Ikeric is a rebuilt, rebranded Sta-rite Dura-Max II (I believe), so that pump might be quiet as well. Since you are already replacing a pump, I would consider the environmental apects.

I would also recommend looking at a 2 speed pump. The price delta is small, but the cost savings can be substantial, and if you run your pump while you are swimming, low speed can be MUCH quieter.

[Simmons99]

I also have the Hayward Super 2 pump - but it doesn't seem noisy to me - maybe the sound is drowned out by the kids screaming and jumping in the pool:p .

But seriously - I don't notice the noise at all.

[markphin]

a noisey pump may be because of a clogged impeller.

[tphaggerty]

Nope. Brand new pump, not clogged. It is fairly close to the pool and has been (relatively) noisy since day 1. I live in a very rural suburban neighborhood that is very quiet. We notice the noise primarily when NOT swimming.

Like I said, I have the original Superpump, not the Superpump II, which may well be much quieter. The original is basically 15 year old technology, still sold today!

[mas985]

Nope. Brand new pump, not clogged. It is fairly close to the pool and has been (relatively) noisy since day 1. I live in a very rural suburban neighborhood that is very quiet. We notice the noise primarily when NOT swimming.

Like I said, I have the original Superpump, not the Superpump II, which may well be much quieter. The original is basically 15 year old technology, still sold today!

What is your filter PSI reading? You mentioned that the pump is close to the pool so I would expect a low PSI reading and thus low head loss.

One thing that can increase the noise of any pump is when the plumbing has very little head loss. The water flow is high so it tends to create more noise. For example, I notice this when my solar is on and pump noise is less.

[gordonhyde]

The easiest way to compare pump efficiencies is to look at each pump's head curve. You will notice that for a given head, the Northstar will have the highest flow of any of the pumps listed which also means the shortest run time for a given turnover. The extra money spent on the Northstar will probably pay for itself in the first year.

Also, for an 8 hour turnover, you only need 80 GPM so 1 1/2 HP may be too much pump. 80 GPM for the Northstar is over 70 feet of head which is very unlikely if you are using at least 2" pipes.

To learn more about pumps, head, turnover and other issues, I recommend this site as a primer.

http://poolplaza.com/pool-pump-sizing-2.shtml
http://www.poolplaza.com/pump-ratings.shtml

Mark:

Thanks for the great info. The link above is perfect!!

Where do you live? Your pool setup up is almost what I am getting?
I live in the Phoenix area.

THX again..

[tphaggerty]

I have solar as well. I will have to check the head loss.

But, the Superpump (2 HP uprated) (again, this is not a Superpump 2, just a plain old Superpump) is just noisy, compared to many other pumps. The pump motor itself is whiny, with lots of harmonics, has been from day 1. The pump part doesn't really seem to make much noise. In any case, it is being replaced with a multi-speed motor. The Ikeric will run at low speed when the solar is not on, but kick up to a higher speed/higher pressure/higher flow when the solar kicks on in order to meet the higher head of the 2nd story solar. The Ikeric speed/head settings are adjustable, so they aren't actually set until everything is installed and running (unlike a regular 2 speed motor/pump, where high speed is normally something like 3300/rpm and low speed is 1650 hard set).

Anyway, the Ikeric (1.5 HP full rated) is supposed to be close to inaudible running on low speed and much quieter than the "average" pump when running at high speed, plus it is supposed to be much more energy efficient all around. Not installed yet, so I can't confirm.

[mas985]

Mark:

Thanks for the great info. The link above is perfect!!

Where do you live? Your pool setup up is almost what I am getting?
I live in the Phoenix area.

THX again..


I am in Northern California, SF bay area.

[mas985]

I have solar as well. I will have to check the head loss.

But, the Superpump (2 HP uprated) (again, this is not a Superpump 2, just a plain old Superpump) is just noisy, compared to many other pumps. The pump motor itself is whiny, with lots of harmonics, has been from day 1. The pump part doesn't really seem to make much noise. In any case, it is being replaced with a multi-speed motor. The Ikeric will run at low speed when the solar is not on, but kick up to a higher speed/higher pressure/higher flow when the solar kicks on in order to meet the higher head of the 2nd story solar. The Ikeric speed/head settings are adjustable, so they aren't actually set until everything is installed and running (unlike a regular 2 speed motor/pump, where high speed is normally something like 3300/rpm and low speed is 1650 hard set).

Anyway, the Ikeric (1.5 HP full rated) is supposed to be close to inaudible running on low speed and much quieter than the "average" pump when running at high speed, plus it is supposed to be much more energy efficient all around. Not installed yet, so I can't confirm.

If you are so inclined, you should be able to run the solar on low speed as well after the panels are primed. Once the pipes are filled with water, the head loss going up is negated by the head gain going down. Most controllers will take care of this by running at high speed for a few minutes and the downshifting to low speed for the remander of the cycle.

[tphaggerty]

Most controllers will take care of this by running at high speed for a few minutes and the downshifting to low speed for the remander of the cycle.

The Ikeric has a flow switch that governs when it goes into high speed mode (it doesn't use relays but a separate computerized motor controller of some sort). I'm not sure if it can be programmed to throttle back after a delay. I am using the Gold Line GL135 solar controller, which is a really simple unit. I'm not sure yet if I'm going to use the Ikeric flow switch or the 220V relay built into the GL135, I have to talk to the Ikeric guys.

I'm not really sure I want it to do that anyway, right now I have 8 panels (4x14) and am probably going to add more. The 8 can handle (max) 80GPM, more likely about 65GPM. If I add another bank of 5 (or even 8 maybe!!), I would need to pump somewhere between 65 to 100GPM through the panels (5 to 8GPM per panel), so that is going to take "high speed", even with 2" lines. The nice thing about the Ikeric is that "high speed" is adjustable, so I can dial it in to get exactly the flow I want and no more.