Fiber product versus de

[Pool in Carolina Blue]

Has anyone tried the cellulose fiber based product in lieu of de?

Thanks in advance for your help!

[thepoolman1]

Have used it in my business since 1994. Have never even considered going back to DE. Try it, you'll love it. Just make sure to get all the DE out of your filter with a good cleaning. You may have to do a second filter cleaning (teardown not backwash) if your pool has had a lot of oils get into it.

After that, your backwashes will be more complete and a teardown and clean will ususally not require that the grid cluster be disassembled. Just a good spray from a hose.

The product is completely inert and non-hazardous. Yes, your water will sparkle.

[Pool in Carolina Blue]

Thank you! I am going to try it.

[ChuckD]

Just wondering why it's better than DE?
[edit: yes, I see why that's a stupid question since poolman1 spelled it out already. But the rest of my post stands]

Also I know DE is a naturally occuring substance and harmless if I just dump it off into the lawn and I can't imagine my water being clearer.

What's this fiber made of? And is it (could it possibly be) cheaper than DE?

C.

[Pool in Carolina Blue]

Chuck:

From my understanding, the fiber is 100% biodegradeable (comes from plant walls and is processed from wood pulp, cotton fiber etc.) whereas the DE is not. In fact, my DE filter has a seperation that was required by the municipality where I live. The purpose of the seperation tank is to catch all of the "used" DE during backwash so it does not get into the sanitary sewar. Apparantly, the DE does not break down readily and has caused clogged lines. Also, DE has been known to cause respiratory problems over extended exposure.

The fiber product is much lighter so you only use roughly 1/4 of what you would use in DE. It is supposed to coat the grids more evenly, filter more refinely, and you will not backwash near as often. I think the reason it is not popular is cost. A 3 lb. bag runs roughly $15. However, I have not done any analysis on the seasonal cost as you are not re-charging with it nearly as often as with DE. If cost does not matter, I think it is a better product from the reasearch I have read.

[Spensar]

Is this Zeobrite being discussed?

[tphaggerty]

Its not Zeobrite, that is for sand filters.

What is the brand name of this stuff (or at least one brand). I would like to research further.

[tphaggerty]

OK, found it myself. It is called CF-138 or Fiber Clear.

[ChuckD]

Chuck:

From my understanding, the fiber is 100% biodegradeable (comes from plant walls and is processed from wood pulp, cotton fiber etc.) whereas the DE is not. In fact, my DE filter has a seperation that was required by the municipality where I live. The purpose of the seperation tank is to catch all of the "used" DE during backwash so it does not get into the sanitary sewar. Apparantly, the DE does not break down readily and has caused clogged lines. Also, DE has been known to cause respiratory problems over extended exposure.

The fiber product is much lighter so you only use roughly 1/4 of what you would use in DE. It is supposed to coat the grids more evenly, filter more refinely, and you will not backwash near as often. I think the reason it is not popular is cost. A 3 lb. bag runs roughly $15. However, I have not done any analysis on the seasonal cost as you are not re-charging with it nearly as often as with DE. If cost does not matter, I think it is a better product from the reasearch I have read.

Thanks for that Pool.
I'm out in the country with 4 acres to spread it out and my water's clearer than I deserve so I think I'll stick with the DE.

BTW, I was able to find two interesting things: I found it for $60/25 lb. bag ($52 for quantities of 6 or more), and I found on the Pentaire website FAQ a comment that they found it requires 'many more backwashes'. Google on CF-138.

C.

[Pool in Carolina Blue]

Thanks Chuck. More backwashes would be a problem!

[matt4x4]

Well, if something is filtering properly, you would think it catches more dirt particles faster, meaning you have to backwash more frequently, so it would make sense, however, an earlier post mentioned less backwashing, would that possibly be because less material is used as a filtering agent, allowing for more dirt to be collected per backwash??

[tphaggerty]

If you do a google search on CF-138, you will get to the S.W.I.M. website. On that site, they have a link to a technical paper that they sponsored. It does address the higher requirement for backwashing, primarily (according to the paper) in commercial/public pools because the cellulose absorbs oils. The celluslose can also pick up a calcium "shell" if you have high calcium levels.

They also claim that the filtering is "mini-micron", so the media can filter out smaller particles than DE. The claim is that you will experience an initial period of requiring more backwashes as the stuff that DE left behind is filtered out. After that initial period, backwashing should be less frequent than DE.

I have a fresh 25lb bag of DE, so I'm not trying this out anytime soon, but might consider it as an experiment next season.

[Sumo1]

I switched to powdered cellulose about mid-season last year('05). Initially, backwashes were more frequent but within 4 or 5 backwash cycles, I was going up to 3 weeks between backwashes. Converted to SWG in spring '06 and had outstanding pool water all summer. I won't go back. In a season and a half, I've used about 20lb.

[CarlD]

We've heard good things about the CF rather than DE. The big issue seems to be expense--DE is really cheap and CF is not.

I do not know if you can add CF to a sand filter the way you can add DE to it, but the amount of DE you add is very small (1/3c to 1 cup) per backwash for strikingly good results. After a season and a half I've not quite gone through the first 5 lbs. Since I have another 15 lbs, it will be several seasons before it's worth looking into.

However, one place where CF is the ONLY choice is if you want to improve the filtering on a cartridge-based system. I gather it's safe to use a little bit of CF to improve filter, but you must NOT use DE for that application. It will clog the cart, possibly ruining it.

DE can also be used for ant control, sprinkling it around their nest and where you don't want them.

[Pool in Carolina Blue]

Carl:

I have now used the CF for several weeks and it works exceedingly well. I ordered a 50 lb. bag from rec supply so it was much cheaper than the local pool store!

Mike

[CarlD]

Let us know what your results are!

[Pool in Carolina Blue]

It has been over 6 months with CF and I am very happy with it. Not only does it seem to filter smaller particles than the de, but the cleaning of the filter is much easier (wash off the grids with a hose with no need to disassemble).

[ChuckD]

So how about your backwash rate? Do you feel you had to do more? It was suggested that initially you would, but the rate would decrease as more of the stuff DE missed was removed. Did you experience that?

[Pool in Carolina Blue]

So how about your backwash rate? Do you feel you had to do more? It was suggested that initially you would, but the rate would decrease as more of the stuff DE missed was removed. Did you experience that?

Chuck:

My backwash rate really did not change a bit. My water clarity is superb with a real sparkle. However, I did raise by borate level to 50 ppm for the first time so maybe that helps with the sparkle!