Is this possible?

[mccato]

16x32 16,400 gal vinyl pool. CYA has been high because I used dichlor at my pool store's recommendation. On 8/23 their Alex system said CYA was 146; on 8/29 it said 151. When I took a sample yesterday, she told me that Alex can only test to 151, so she added water and tested manually and told me it was 330! I have not put anything except bleach and borax into the pool since 8/23. My chlorinator has always been set to 1;and I turned it off last night. I drained approx. 3 inches of water twice last week and added fresh. Is it possible for CYA to increase that much that fast, with only bleach and borax added to the pool?

I have drained another 2 inches of water today; but if the CYA really is 330, I don't think that's going to help.

How much water can I safely drain from my vinyl pool? It is going to be sunny all weekend and I don't want the liner to shrink.

Thanks!

[larry2338]

Doubtful,
Just looking at your figures, it would make sense to assume that she diluted your water by 50% and then multiplied your CYA result by 100%. If the previous test results were correct??? it would seem more likely that your CYA might be around 165 or half what she told you. If it's possible, I would have another store run the test or have the original store run it again and explain exactly how they are arriving at the 330 number.

[mccato]

Thanks, Larry. She did add water (tap water, not distilled) to the test vial, but she something about multiplying the result by 4. I have ordered a test kit from Ben, but am still waiting for it to arrive. The other pool stores around don't have computerized testing -they usually just test for pH and chlorine. I can't wait to get my kit so I can have accurate results!

[chem geek]

It would take almost 90 pounds of Dichlor to raise your CYA from 0 to 330 (in your 16,400 gallon pool) and this would be adding about 360 ppm FC. Of course, you probably started out with some CYA before using Dichlor, but even so it does seem strange that you got so high. Of course, if you were adding copious amounts of Dichlor regularly, say at a rate to add 2 ppm FC per day, then over 6 months this would be 360 ppm FC cumulatively so one season of dichlor could indeed give you 330 ppm CYA.

Yes, unfortunately you have to drain your pool by much more than a few inches to lower your CYA. There are ways of replacing your pool water safely without lowering your water level. These involve using a large plastic sheet on top of your pool water and then draining from underneath the sheet while adding new water on top of the sheet (letting the sheet get lower in the pool). I can't find the threads that talk about this and related techniques -- perhaps someone else will.

I also agree that it would be good to test the CYA yourself, but even any CYA over 100 is going to require significant drain/refill.

Richard

[mccato]

Thanks, Richard. I used 15 pounds of dichlor when I did use it; so your calculations make me feel better! The idea of using a plastic sheet to add water to the top while draining from underneath sounds good too. I've just not been able to find a sheet of plastic that's big enough!

[chem geek]

Take a look at this thread (http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=5525) especially on the third page and later. Though this looks like a scene out of Cocoon, you could use large plastic garbage bags instead of a plastic sheet (or tarp). If you come up with a creative solution and you think it looks funny, be sure to post some pics if you can so we can all get a good laugh. The technique does work, but it can sure look strange!

Richard

[mccato]

Thanks again, Richard! That's a very entertaining group of posts! Gives me lots of good ideas! I'll be sure to post pics if I think of something worthy!

[mccato]

OK, in my constant search for more information about the CYA beast, I found this - It's $50 per gallon at In The Swim:

Cyanuric Acid Remover

A REVOLUTIONARY SOLUTION TO "OVER-STABILIZATION" IN SWIMMING POOLS & SPAS!

Quickly reduce the level of cyanuric acid to comply with local codes, and avoid costly water problems.

Eliminate the time consuming process of draining and re-filling the pool.

Will not affect the water balance chemistry when used as recommended.

Pool can be open again only 15 minutes after application.


Dosage: One gallon of Cyanuric Acid Remover per 10,000 gallons of pool

Of course the ingredients are not listed anywhere that I can see. Does anyone have any idea what this stuff is?

[doggie]

I don't know. But it seems a bit suspicious that only intheswim and waterwarehouse sells it. All other sites say the only way to reduce your cyanuric acid is by replacing water.

In my opinion, it would be a waste of money. I'd stick to the tried and true.

[hamop78]

I've seen posts on other forums that say it is melamine -- the reagent used in your test. Allegedly, the person who assisted in the development of the product denied that emphatically. I suppose you could demand an MSDS if you buy the product but you should know that the MSDS only shows hazardous materials but even that is not available if it is a trade secret.

If you want to try draining -- an alternative to the sheet method is a Silage Bag, available from a farm supply. These are heavy plastic bags that come in various sizes. A 8'X20' bag will hold in the neighborhood of 7500 gallons.

[mccato]

Thanks to both of you. I wrote to In The Swim and asked for the ingredients, but they say "I cannot divulge the ingredients in the product because the manufacturer does not provide them at this time." I also asked if it's guaranteed to lower CYA, and they said No! So I guess I'll get the Silage Bags and get to work!

[fcfrey]

Silage Bags aren't cheap ---- Maybe you can find a farmer with some leftover. I noticed my neighbor filling his silo today -- next will come the big tubes (he makes 3 or 4 about 12' Diameter by 80' feet long. He said each one cost about $25. He buys bulk (5000' for $175.00). The other alternative is individual bags they put the big bales in --- they come flat but again in a box of 500.

[doggie]

Mccato, have you checked online for plastic sheeting? For instance check this site. They have all sorts of sizes and shapes and don't seem that expensive. Maybe you could find it locally too.

http://www.hectorshardware.biz/shop/product.asp?dept_id=151001&sku=104272&

[chem geek]

The In The Swim page for the Cyanuric Acid Remover (http://www.intheswim.com/Commercial-Pool-Chemicals/Chemicals-Water-Balancers/Cyanuric-Acid-Remover/) shows the brand name on the bottle of Clormor. The www.chlormor.com (http://www.clormor.com/) web page is under construction and also says "Zyme Pool & Spa Chemicals". However, this cached web page (http://72.14.207.104/search?q=cache:Jtrjf2xk2lMJ:www.dailychanges.com/detail/%3Fns%3DWORLDNIC.COM%26date%3D2006-04-05%26net%3D1061%26changes%3D2647%26act%3Da+Clormor&hl=en&gl=ca&ct=clnk&cd=4&client=firefox-a) shows that the chlormor domain was transferred from allchem.com (http://www.allchem.com/) and this company claims they are a distributor of pool chemical products yet their product list (http://www.allchem.com/divisions/performance-products.htm) does not show the Cyanuric Acid Remover product. So I can't find the original manufacturer source, but agree with others that this is just melamine.

Richard

[Simmons99]

I've heard that the "remover" turns your pool milky white by precipitating the CYA out and then you have to hope your filter can clear up the water - I would refill.

[mccato]

Thanks to all of you! I appreciate the link to the sheeting - I had meant to look for some and kept forgetting. I think that will work better for me than big bucks for bags! I'm not touching that "remover" - sounds like a lot of money for nothing; or trouble.

I have a Jacuzzi sand filter - should I drain using the drain setting? And if I do that, I need to stop up the skimmer, right? Or should I do as I've seen others here do and drain through the vacuum hose?

Thanks again to everyone!

[cschnurr]

In the winter, I make a skating rink on the grass in our yard.
I usually pick up a 30x50' tarp in the paint section of Home Depot.
Last year it cost about $80 Cdn.

I drop it into a wood frame and fill it up like an ice cube tray.