Where to start? [Archive]

Steve #1

08-23-2006, 11:17 AM

Let me start by saying how happy I am that I found this great forum with such knowledgeable people willing to share information.

Background info - I've been around pools a lot my whole live but never had to deal with the chemicals and such. I've had the pool about 9 months and have been winging it and keeping things pretty much in check until a couple weeks ago when I was super busy with work and my pump died and things went south with a major algae issue. I've been using pucks and the packages of shock. I got the algae killed off but now I have super cloudy water.

After reading the info here, I'm ready to switch over to BBB. I'd been using HTH test strips but went out to Wally-World yesterday and got the HTH 5 way test kit. I just need someone to hold my hand while I do this so I don't make a bigger mess. :)

The pool is an older in ground with cartridge filter. It's an odd shape, and I'm bad at math, but I figure it is around 9000 gal.

Heres what the test's I just did show.

Using the 5 way kit:
Hardness - 460
Total Chlorine - 2
PH - 7.2
Alkalinity - 120
CYA - only made it about half way to the scale that starts at 100

Using the test strips
Hardness - 400
Free Chlorine - 1
PH - 7.2
Alkalinity - 180
CYA - between 130 and 300

Also, I rigged up one of the pool coolers from the how to in the equipment forum (can't find the thread now) is it OK to start using it now, or should I wait until I have the other issues worked out?

Thanks for any help.

Sully

08-23-2006, 11:35 AM

Shock your pool and keep it shocked.....still cloudy , your either on the end of a bloom or just about to start another.

Keep it shocked until your water is clear, then do another test and post those numbers.

GraceByDesign

08-23-2006, 12:27 PM

you need to get a better number for your CYA so you know what your shock level is. Sounds like you might have a pretty high CYA, so seems to me shocking to 20 or 25 would not be out of line. I don't know what "halfway to the scale that starts at 100" means, so until you get better numbers, that's all the advice I have!:rolleyes:

With a TC of 2 and FC of 1, that means CC of 1, so you need to shock until CC is 0

Is the pool plaster, fiberglass or vinyl?

Steve #1

08-23-2006, 12:47 PM

OK, I had a little less than 3 gal of bleach around the house (even stole the one off the washing machine :) ). According to BleachCalc, that should get me close. Not sure how to test for a level this high as my little test kit only goes to 5.

The pool, I believe, is plaster.

keithw

08-23-2006, 01:04 PM

If your CYA is 90+ you will have to permanently maintain your CL above what your current test kits is capable of reading and shock to well above what it can test. And since you have not definite grasp on your total pool volume, bleachcacl.exe can't be considerly wholly reliable for you. I would recommend that you quickly get a test kit that will test CL levels higher than 5ppm. A dpd-fas test kit. The Taylor K-2006 is very affordable $45ish, and readily available most and pool stores. It'll test up to 20PPM.

Steve #1

08-23-2006, 01:20 PM

Is it acceptable to "cut?" the pool water with distiled water to be able to use the test kit I have now untill I get a better one?

GraceByDesign

08-23-2006, 02:00 PM

yes, you may use 2 or 3 parts distilled to one part pool, and multiply your result by 3 or 4, accordingly. You lose some accuracy, but it will get you closer than "well, it looks dark brown"! :D

This is affectionatly known on this forum as "CarlD's shot glass method"

knarf#2

08-23-2006, 02:24 PM

Just curious if you can accomplish the shot gun method by reducing the number of test drops required i.e. for FC my test kit tells me to add 5 drops. What if I only add 1 or 2 drops and multiply accordingly? If this method works it eliminates a step (adding distilled water) and saves on testing liquids.

Steve #1

08-23-2006, 02:38 PM

Well, knarf, sounded like a good enough idea to me so I gave it a shot to see what happened. Used 1 drop instead of 5 and it was darker than 5 which would put me at 25 so I'm probably at about 30....... or this method doesn't work. :o

keithw

08-23-2006, 04:25 PM

Doesn't work. You have to dilute the water with distilled water. But loses accuracy. Better to get a DPD-FAS test kit that test higher than 5PPM.

Steve #1

08-23-2006, 05:08 PM

Thanks for the buzz kill keithw. :)

It appears that the high CYA is the root of my problem and from what I understand, the only way to lower it is to replace the water. With the level of CYA, about how much water am I looking at replacing to get to a more manageable level? I'm guessing this would also help the Harness level?

With this in mind, anyone know the effects of pool water on grass? We're under mandatory water rationing here and it's a $1500 fine if you water your yard any time other than your 12 hours a week you are allowed however usage for pool maintenance is allowed. I could kill two birds with one stone if it wouldn't have ill effects on my sun baked grass.

...... and thanks for all the help so far. :)

Phillbo

08-23-2006, 05:18 PM

Where do you live? Is there a concern with the water table in your area? Given the drought conditions I'd doubt it but it's something to think about so your pool does not heave when empty. Mine sat empty for 3 months here in Az and not even a crack ... If your water is not real salty it may not be a problem on the grass. What kind of grass?

Sounds like the water has been in the pool for a long time.. A drain and refill never hurts in that situation.

Steve #1

08-23-2006, 05:47 PM

I'm in north Texas (Dallas). The only concern with the water table is the lack of one. :) How do I know if the water is salty? The grass is St Augustine so it is pretty sturdy except that it is dry now.

keithw

08-23-2006, 06:02 PM

First you need to get an accurate CYA. The looking at this thread, you say it's "halfway to the scale that starts at 100." The test strip is pretty unreliable so I discount that. Done it small batches the water shouldn't mess up the lawn. I've done partial drains without problem. I too had a high CYA, right around 100. I am letting evaporation and splashy kids lower mine steadily and slowly. I just chlorinate up to 8PPM at night and let it work down to 5PPM and then move it back up to 8.

Phillbo

08-23-2006, 06:03 PM

Get a water sample at a pool store and then go ask a nursery ;)

Sully

08-23-2006, 08:41 PM

St. Augustine will hold up rather well to pool water. Only (always a catch) do not let the water drain in just one spot, try to distribute the water around the yard. The worse case scenario you'll end up with a pretty nasty fungus in that one area. I have St. Augustine on two sides of my deck and from the water being splashed out, the sod around the deck gets a nasty fungus that will turn the blades of grass a rather odd shade of orange.

Simmons99

08-24-2006, 08:36 AM

I am letting evaporation and splashy kids lower mine steadily and slowly. I just chlorinate up to 8PPM at night and let it work down to 5PPM and then move it back up to 8.

Evaporation will not get rid of CYA - it will not leave the pool. Splashing the water out would get rid of the CYA that is in the splashed water - but it is way more effective to do a partial drain/refill.

I think some people here have done a 3-4" drain and refill every couple of days until the CYA level is down to a manageable level. It will also cool down the pool:)

Steve #1

08-24-2006, 11:28 AM

What is the reason for doing a drain and refill over a few days vs doing it all at once? Seems like the latter would be more effective as far as watter usage.

My water is almost clear now. How long after I have it clear should I keep it at shock level? I want to be sure I have the algae under control. It seems like the chlorine isn't lasting long and it is still using quite a bit. Testing using the shot glass method for now.

We also had an odd phenomenon happen here last night where droplets of water were falling out of the sky. I have seen this happen before, I think it's called "ran" or something like that. :D

GraceByDesign

08-24-2006, 11:46 AM

The main reason for doing several smaller drainn/refills is to avoid any potential problem with an empty pool... heaving, cracking, etc. If you drain the pool, there is only the pressure of the ground pushing in on the walls, and no longer pressure from the water pushing back on the walls

ETA: keep it at shock levels until you have O CC, then let it drift back down to 8 or so, if you keep the high CYA

Phillbo

08-24-2006, 12:10 PM

Lets talk him into being our "BIG PLASTIC SHEET" Guinea Pig.... ;)

Ya know you want to try it Steve :D

Steve #1

08-24-2006, 12:15 PM

BIG PLASTIC SHEET? I'm guessing I need a big plastic sheet.... then what do I do with it?

Phillbo

08-24-2006, 12:33 PM

You really don't want to know ... You may be crazy enough to do it. :eek:

The theory is that if you cover your pool with a big plastic tarp and start pumping the water out from the bottom while at the same time, filling with new water on top, You can purge all the old water without risk of cracks...

Steve #1

08-24-2006, 12:39 PM

Now that's just crazy....... but jumbo trashbags filled up and tied off should work right? :)

Simmons99

08-24-2006, 12:59 PM

:eek: OMG - when I heard the plastic sheet idea - I actually thought someone had done it. I was wondering how you would be able to pull the plastic out from under all that water - or if you went underwater and cut it in half or something.

Are you saying no one has pulled it off?

Phillbo

08-24-2006, 12:59 PM

I'm thinking you should give it a shot.. It's the best way to prevent cracking of the plaster...

Phillbo

08-24-2006, 01:01 PM

:eek:

Are you saying no one has pulled it off?

no no no .... plenty have done it .. It's just never been done in Texas before ;) ;) ;)

:D

Steve will update us on his progress .

Sully

08-24-2006, 01:08 PM

And we want pictures! :D

Phillbo

08-24-2006, 01:28 PM

BTW ... welcome to the site Steve :D

now get busy, you have some work to do ..

Make sure the tarp is big enough to cover the sides as the water drops and also that you match the flow of water being pumped out as close as possible to the flow of water being replaced. The 'others' that have done this found that they would have to turn off the pump for a while to let the hose catch up if the pump they rented did not have the variable flow valve.. .

GraceByDesign

08-24-2006, 02:11 PM

:eek: ... I was wondering how you would be able to pull the plastic out from under all that water - ...

After you have finished, you would only need to push the plastic down the wall to let the water on top start to get behind. Then the plastic would just be in the water, imagine a sunken solar cover, and you could haul it out.

GraceByDesign

08-24-2006, 02:13 PM

Now that's just crazy....... but jumbo trashbags filled up and tied off should work right? :)

Like a giant bucket of water balloons!!! :eek:

Steve #1

08-24-2006, 04:58 PM

ETA: keep it at shock levels until you have O CC, then let it drift back down to 8 or so, if you keep the high CYA

And remind me how I get this measurement again.

BTW: My first thought was water balloons, I just scaled it up to trash bags.

I can't find wide enough sheets of plastic.... I'm still liking the trash bag idea. :)

Steve #1

08-25-2006, 03:53 PM

Well I decided to take the plunge and lower my CYA, but alas no BIG PLASTIC SHEET.

In the future, please refer to this as "Steve #1's Trash-bag Method". I thought I had an industrial size box of 33 gal trash bags but they were only 13 gal so I got started with the small box of 33 gal that I had. I'll hit the store for another box later.

I'm not planing on keeping it completely full, but this should be better than just draining it without replacing as I go.

And for those of you that didn't think i was crazy enough to do it......

http://home.comcast.net/~txspazz/PDRM0023lil.jpg

Phillbo

08-25-2006, 04:03 PM

Texans are a strange breed ... and I though the guy with the plywood pool was a little off :D :D

So do you add a bag of water every so often to keep the level at your desired height ? Do you put the bags in the pool to fill ?

keep us posted on your progress.....

Steve #1

08-25-2006, 04:04 PM

So with my CYA of 200ish and hardness of 460, about how much water should I plan on replacing?

Steve #1

08-25-2006, 04:16 PM

Well siphoning with the vacuum hose in to the yard goes faster than the fill hose.

The method is:
1) Remove bag from box.
2) Bundle up open end of bag
3) stick bag in the pool
4) stick hose in open end of bag and fill while still holding the opened end of the bag gartered up and above the water surface.
4.5) CAUTION THIS IS THE HARD PART Tare off a 5" strip of duct tape using only one hand (you didn't think a Texan could pull off something this technical without using duct tape did you).
5) When bag is full enough that the part you have bundled up around the hose starts to pull, take the hose out give the bag a spin, put a goose neck in the end of the bag and tape it closed.

GraceByDesign

08-25-2006, 05:13 PM

Thanks for the laugh! :D
They don't look as much like water balloons as I expected! Mostly looks like you need to skim your pool REAL bad! :eek:

ETA: if you are shooting for 30-50 CYA, that means at least 75% of your pool volume. 75% should get you to 50ppm.
That's a LOT of trash bags!!!

Phillbo

08-25-2006, 05:17 PM

LMAO... Man your killing me over here as well :D

I'd say with a CYA of 200, you'd be best off replacing as much water as possible or at least 3/4 of it and then install a salt system . I'm buying Glade stock as we speak ;)

Steve #1

08-26-2006, 02:39 AM

Well, I ended up only replacing about 1/2 of the water due to a number of factors. After I ran out of bags the water level dropped down to the point that I could no longer siphon. While I could have gotten around this, the big kicker was my son is turning 4 today and when given a bunch of special things he could do for the day, all he wanted was to go swimming. You can't disappoint a little guy on his birthday so I quit draining and topped it off.

While I'm sure my levels didn't get down to where I wanted them (will test everything as soon as I get home this morning) It should be better and I know the water will be cooler, the yard also got a much needed watering (it was so dry not an ounce ran out of the yard)...... and y'all got some entertainment from my redneck engineering.

Thanks for all the help. :D

duraleigh

08-26-2006, 07:06 AM

Hi, Steve,

Nice........clever work. The pic looks like an outtake from "Cocoon".

Jakebear

08-26-2006, 02:44 PM

I know it's a bit late for this thread but for the future for those who need to change the water and can't or do not feel comfortable with draining ----

Here is the answer to your prayers.:D

Silage Tube ---- Yep, those big tubes that farmers blow cattle feed into for storage and feeding in the winter. You can buy them at most farm supply stores and they are available in various sizes -- 6, 8, 10, feet diameter and bigger they come in up to 8mil thick --- the way I figure it you could close one end --- lay it across the water of your pool and fill it with water. A 6' diameter 20' long tube should hold 565 cubic feet (3.1416 X Radius Squared X Length) which is equal to 4237 gallons (7.5 gal per cubic foot).

Water seeks its own level so the excess will go out the overflow or over the edge if you get a tanker to fill it with a big hose.

BTW a 8' X 5000 feet tube costs $175 but you could probably buy a hunk from a farmer somewhere by the foot.

South_Texas_Sun

08-26-2006, 03:57 PM