How To Test for Air Leak? (found - tree root grew into line!)

[mickey4paws]

Is there any procedure for testing the sand filter and pump for air leaks? Would using soapy water be the way? Any help would be greatly appreciated. The pool is not losing water. We are looking specifically for an air leak. Our pool has suddenly become really foamy (a blanket of foam is across the whole pool when the filter is running). All chemicals are in range. Thanks.

One other question: Is it okay to run the sand filter with only one valve open (we would have the pool drain valve open, and the leaf skimmer valve closed)?

[Poconos]

Welcome to the forum.
Leaks on the pressure side (sand filter) of the pump will be obvious by water dribble. Air leaks will be on the suction side. First thing to check is the pump basket cover. Inspect the O-ring for tears or degradation, replace if suspect. Next, lube that ring with silicone lube. Jacks or something equivalent available at pool stores. Little pricey but goes a long way. Sometimes you can find an air leak with a stethoscope with the diaphram removed. Sniff around suspect joints with the open end of the hose. When you get close to a leak the sound will be obvious. Alternative way is wih a piece of small diameter hose stuck in your ear but a cheap stethescope is much better. If things like PVC joints are easily accessable you can temporarily wrap the joint area with cheap electrical tape one at a time. When the bubbles go away, you found the leak then fix it properly. From what you say about a lot of foaming it sounds like you have a big leak. Pump basket have air in it? Best info for now...keep us posted and if you have a PVC joint that's leaking I have an easy way to fix that.
Al

[mickey4paws]

Thanks so much for your reply. Looking at the strainer gasket, it doesn't look great. The pump basket does look a bit foamy. Is replacing the gasket very difficult? How would I replace the old one and install the new one? I do have some silicone stuff from when we changed the o-ring on the filter's dome. Here is a picture of what we have, and it's #4 that we would be replacing:

http://www.haywardnet.com/products/manuals/pdfs/Manual113.pdf

Oh, one other thing- the flapper door between the pool and the leaf skimmer - does it open completely when the filter is running, or just enough so that water comes in?

[waste]

Mickey, does your pump have a clear lid? If so, can you see air bubbles in it? Is the water level high enough to feed the skimmer (is a 'waterfall' in the skimmer the reason you want to only run the main drain)? What kind of valve (s) do you have to isolate the skimmer and drain? Sorry for all the questions, but I'll be able to offer better and more specific advice with these answers. Al has offered good advice (what's new;) ) but I'd like to verify a leak as just a leak shouldn't result in foam across the whole surface. Is there any chance that some detergent got added to the pool? Have you used a 'non-polyquat' algicide?
Welcome to the forum and know that Al, I and all the other members want for you to solve this problem and have nothing but positive experiences with your pool! :) - Waste

I posted 2 min after you did. As it's a superpump, it does have a clear lid and I have LOTS of experience with them. The 'weir' of the skimmer, should move freely but stay ~ at water level (I can tell you why if you're really interested), if something has jammed it so that it stays fully upright, the skimmer could 'waterfall' causing air in the pump and filter.

[mickey4paws]

Thank you, Waste! (interesting name :)
I should have mentioned, but we are using Baquacil. I know Baquacil can be foamy, but we've never had a foam problem with it and we've been using it for 3 years. The water has been tested, twice, and everything is within range.

The water level is definitely high enough. The weir of the skimmer does open enough to let water in and seems to be working okay. Just wondering if perhaps it should be laying completely down or open enough just to let water in.

I'm still thinking the gasket on the strainer basket doesn't look great, and wouldn't that be the easiest thing to replace? I tried Hayward's website but couldn't find instructions for changing the gasket. How do we remove the old one, and install the new one please? Is it very difficult for someone who's never done it before?

Thanks again, your help is greatly appreciated!!

[waste]

Mickey, no problem (BTW the name was given to me by my fraternity brothers, who with great acuracy forsaw my failing out of that college :) ) The SP1600-T gasket should just lift out of it's seat by hand. Getting one back in can be a little tricky, sometimes they try to 'buckle - up' and need to be worked back around. Sometimes you can get away with just turning the original one over and reseating it (if only a small area is bad). I don't know much about Baq but it seems some of their products will foam. (The majority of folks here don't 'like' Baq - for a few reasons, the biggest being that it's simply not as effective as chlorine, and it really costs $$). I would strongly suggest taking a good read through the Baq section of the forum (and see Ben's read on them at poolsolutions.com).
The skimmer 'weir' should only go down enough to allow sufficient water to enter the skimmer body (this helps with entrapping surface debris - the whole idea behind a skimmer) and should float back up to entrap the collected debris when the pump is off.
Your earnest interst in caring for your pool should keep answers comming to you from the various members here. In time you will learn enough to be able to care for your pool and provide answers to others who may experience the same questions that you have! :) (We are a 'give and take' community: learn when you can and help when you can). If I can be of further assistance, never hesitate to ask!!

[mickey4paws]

Well I went out and bought a replacement strainer basket o-ring. What was odd was the one that was in there had the flat edge as the inserted edge, while the new one has the flat edge on the sides. I hope I explained that okay. Anyway, we replaced it. I wanted to clean the clear plastic cover of the strainer basket. As I was cleaning it, I noticed that one of the corners was cracked and ready to break off. Now I don't know if it was like that before I cleaned it, or if I broke it while cleaning it. We also replaced the o-ring on our sand filter (at the top where you bleed air from) because that didn't seem to be really snug.

So we turned the filter back on and we still have foam, but don't know if the foam was already there. We have now turned off the filter to let the foam disappate and then we'll turn it back on and cross fingers that no foam comes back.

Thanks again! I really appreciate the help more than you know. We seriously considered switching to chlorine this year but since we still had quite a bit of Baquacil left, we decided to wait until next summer, maybe get a salt water chlorinator. Are those good?

[waste]

Mickey, did the air in the pump go away?
You installed the new gasket correctly (as long as it went in flat), sounds like the old one was somehow installed sideways :eek: , which may have been the cause for any air in the pump. As for a chip off the corner, as long as it doesn't extend to the 'rib' on the cover you should still be able to fully seal the lid, unless it's a front corner and prevents the locking knobs from creating a full seat. I can't blame you for wanting to use up the Baq you had, that stuff isn't cheep, but do give a read like I said above. If you want to switch to a chlorine pool next year, I think the vast majority of people here would tell you that you are making a GREAT choice. As for salt water systems, I really like them and so do quite a few folks here. What you'll need to do (anytime between now and next spring) is to look into the SWG (SWCG) section of this forum, and see if it will be the right thing for your budget and pool (there should be a few 'cost analysis' of whether the unit actually saves money vs a bleach pool (it has a fairly high 'up-front' cost, some chems are still required to maintain the pool, cells need to be replaced periodicly and it costs electricity to run one) - but even so, the yearly cost will probably be less than a well maintained Baq pool. I've babbled enough for one post - if I can be of any further help, never hesitate to ask! :)

[mickey4paws]

Hi Waste,
Thanks so much for asking about my air leak. I ended up replacing the lid just in case that was it. So I turned on the pool and only had the valve open that feeds off the bottom drain. So far, so good, the water was crystal clear both in the pool and in the strainer basket. Then I very, very slowly started opening up the valve that feeds to the leaf skimmer. I had it about 1/3 of the way open, and everything was still looking good. Then as I opened it more, the water in the strainer basket started getting foamy. So I bled the air from the top of the sand filter. I went and looked in the pool and saw foam, and then just wanted to cry :( We did call the man that rebuilt our pool so I'm hoping he can get out in the next couple of days. Right now I have only the valve open that feeds from the bottom. Is it okay to run the pump like that for a while, with just the one valve open?

Thanks for the info on the Baquacil/Chlorine. I have a friend who has a salt water chlorine generator system and she loves it. I am definitely going to do some serious reading of the forum this winter so we can be ready in the spring. The cost of Baquacil is outrageous. Fortunately at the end of last year a pool store was converting their business from retail to just pool building so we got a decent deal on some Baquacil.

[mickey4paws]

Hi all,
Seems the cause of our air leak problem was a tree root that had grown into the line. I'm so happy that our pool builder was able to track it down and he's fixing it now :D

Thanks again to everyone. I really appreciate the help and support!

[waste]

Congrats! It's always nice to hear the outcome to problems we've adressed :cool:

[mickey4paws]

Thanks so much, Waste
We were told to not use the one valve (the line that he fixed) until this morning because of some adhesive he used. So this morning, I turned on the pump and very slowly started opening that second valve, when all the sudden I started see air - lots of it, and then starting lose the prime on the pump. So I immediately closed that valve, waited for the basket to fill, and then tried again. This time it worked perfectly and the water in the basket is as clear as a bell with NO air bubbles :D I even checked again before I left for work just to make sure.

Thanks again :)