Have a small above ground pool, please help

[rastoma]

I have a small pool for the kids, rated at 3600 gallons (12 ft round and it's nighttime and I can't remember the heighth... 36" I think or maybe 32"). I know this is a kiddie pool compared to everyone elses, but it's big enough that I can't afford to drain it and refill it every other day :)

I've read a lot here but I still can't get a grasp on things.

It's been up about 3 weeks now. The water is starting to get a little cloudy. I'm in a SMALL town and have nothing near me but a Walmart so I have been using this powdered shock they have every few days.

I have a test kit I got from WM too, so this is what I know thus far.

The test tube that's used to measure CL measures from .6 to 5.0. The solution turns the water yellow and has a color chart for each graudation of number. The yellow is off the chart, very dark yellow. If I had to guess at a number due to the graudations, I'm guess 10+. I also have some test strips that show a little darker purple that what's on the bottle and it maxes out at 10.

The PH in the liquid test kit barely registers a color and it starts at 6.8. The test strip shows about 6.8, maybe 7.0.

The alkalinity I believe is about 150 ppm (give or take 10 ppm or so). It was test where I kept putting a drop in the water until it turned clear and the drops were not consistent. Then you multiple the drops by 10. But it was pretty close to 15 drops. (no test strip for this).

The water hardness test showed nothing. A violet color was supposed to have appeared with the first solution but the water remained perfectly clear. I still added several drops of the second solution and still no change.

The stabilizer test showed 50 ppm.



So there is a difference between chlorine and free clorine? If so, I do not know how to test for FCL. The test strips say they test FCL and the solution kit I have says it tests for CL. In either case as stated above they both show a number slightly greater than 10.

I hate to ask for hand holding on this, but I just can't get my mind around this. We just got this pool cause they were on closeout since pool season, according to the retailers, was over about a month ago. But I suppose we won't have much more time for the kids to play in it (3 young kids, 8 and under), but anything you can suggest would be greatly appreciated.

Oh, it does have a filter that came with it. It's an Intex pool. I THINK it's a 500gph pump?

[medvampire]

First off let me say big pool…small pool…same chemistry.
Sounds like you are using the 5 way test kit from WM. The OTO test in that kit measures total chlorine only so you should get a kit that measures free chlorine as well. I would recommend ordering one of Bens (http://www.poolsolutions.com/cart/ps234.php) test kits. Another note is that WM kits don’t do well when testing other than chlorine when the chlorine is above 5 and if I remember correctly it mentions it on the direction card. There is an issue with the TH reagent on these kits witch is similar to the problem you describe. Test strips are not the most accurate. I would retest the chlorine using a dilution method with OTO. Take equal amounts of pool water and distilled water combine in one container and test with OTO multiplying by 2 for your result.
As for the pH…If it is truly that low you need to dose with some 20 Mule Team Borax to bring it back up.
Dont add any more stabilizer (CYA) or stabilized chlorine it will increse your CYA. I would use just bleach for your chlorene source.
Most of all read the forums and its sister site (http://www.poolsolutions.com/sitemap.html). You can dose using bleach calc (http://home.earthlink.net/~mwsmith70/data/BleachCalc262.exe). Get a good test kit (http://www.poolsolutions.com/cart/ps234.php). Put your pool info like size, filter, and general location in your siguture line. If asking chemistry question list your results. Listen to the pros here (I am still a noob) they know their stuff.
Steve

[rastoma]

Thanks for the reply.

CarlD's sticky post in this category says Walmart's 5 way kit is sufficient so that's why I got that one. Money's a little tight right now, I don't think I'll be afford the kit offered through here right away. It was more than I paid for the pool :) But I'm sure we'll be able to use the pool next year too and will definately be able to get one by then.

I already picked up some 20 Mule Team Borax a few days ago after reading here and will be adding it today.

So the method you described of putting half pool water/half distilled water.... do I still use that full amount in my vial as if it were all pool water? The test says use 5 drops of the OTO solution, so still use 5 drops? Is this the same thing as the shot glass method? I keep seeing posts that say search for it but I can't find the actual description anywhere, just more posts saying to search for it :)

Also, the water does have a fairly strong chlorine smell.

Once I do get a more accurate number for chlorine, how do I lower it? I tried draining about 25" of the water and refilling and the chlorine level stayed the same.

[rastoma]

Unrelated.... I just ran the numbers to determine volume and came up with around 2200 gallons instead of 3600. I guess the paper was wrong :)

[GraceByDesign]

So the method you described of putting half pool water/half distilled water.... do I still use that full amount in my vial as if it were all pool water? The test says use 5 drops of the OTO solution, so still use 5 drops? Is this the same thing as the shot glass method? I keep seeing posts that say search for it but I can't find the actual description anywhere, just more posts saying to search for it :)

Use the diluted pool water exactly the way you would use regular pool water. Fill to the line, same # of drops, timing, etc.

Also, the water does have a fairly strong chlorine smell.

Once I do get a more accurate number for chlorine, how do I lower it? I tried draining about 25" of the water and refilling and the chlorine level stayed the same.

If your stabilizer (or CYA) is 50, you need to keep 3-6ppm of Free Chlorine. Your test only measures Total Chlorine, which is Free chlorine (the stuff that is available to work and keep your pool sanitized) plus Combined Chloramines (the stuff that is busy killing off junk) TC=FC+CC. If you are smelling chlorine, you have combined chloramines, and therefore less FC available to sanitize your pool.

Test your chlorine using the shot glass method and postyour results. Then someone can help you further.

Don't drain your pool. You need chlorine to keep your water sanitized, and the sun will destroy the chlorine fast enough.

[waste]

As usual, the advice already given is right on, so I'll only add two things:
1) Make sure the filter is clean, it'll help speed up the clearing.
2)Quit using the packs of granular, wallmart 6% bleach will give you more 'bang for your buck' - speaking of which, use the bleach calc that Steven linked in his response to check both gallonage and bleach dosage (I did a quick calculation [based on 3600 gal] and figure that 3 cups of 6% bleach should put you in your desired range - once the cloudyness and excessive chlorine is gone).
Do as Grace and Steven suggested, follow the methods you learn and taking care of your new pool will be a breeze. Welcome to the forum and congrats on the new pool! :) - Waste

[rastoma]

I will definately start using bleach instead of the powdered shock treatment.

I THINK I did the shot glass test right. It shows what I had previously guessed at, which is 10.

I just added some borax a few mins ago.

The pool is in direct sunlight but the chlorine has never dropped, it's continually increased since the day I started testing.

So what will make it drop?

[waste]

Rastoma, there are ways to rid yourself of excess chlorine in a pool, but I don't think you need to use them. 10 ppm of cl with a cya of 50 is no problem for your kids, thier clothes nor the pool. The combined chlorine is a problem, the best way to get rid of that is to ... add more chlorine :eek: - you've got to chemically 'burn' it out of the water. Ben's best guess chart says to take the ppm to 15 for shocking. Once the cc is gone you can reduce the ppm to ~3.
Having said that, if you want less chlorine in the pool, give it something to attack (sweat, pee, suntan lotion, grass and leaves), but that will raise the cc again and you'll be back where you started (there is a chemical, thiosulphate, that will destroy the chlorine, but it's not cheep). My best advice is to shock until the water is clear and there's no more 'chlorine smell' then let it drift down by itself before adding more bleach to the pool. Just my $.02 :)

[rastoma]

Ok, great. I was thinking along those lines but I wasn't sure.

I thought shocking just meant to get rid of algae. So shocking will get rid of the CC? Cool.

Will do that this evening.

Using bleachcalc, I come up needing to add .7 litres of bleach to reach 15ppm since I'm at 10 now, if my calc was correct that 2200 gal is 8327 litres

[Sully]

If you open up Bleach calc, click on More Calcs...then click on settings..change the setting from metric to imperial. Unless you like using the metric system. :D

[rastoma]

DOH! Thanks!! :) No, I'm much more used to U.S. measurements :)

[rastoma]

I added 6% bleach, best guess amount for shock yesterday.

Using shot glass method, CL is still at 10-11. I added the same amount this morning for shock level, tested this evening and no change in CL.

I also added some borax yesterday, PH is about 7.5 now up from almost 7.0.

Alkalinity has risen to 200ppm.

stablizer is still at 50. No hardness detected.

Should I keep adding bleach? How long should it take the shock to run the CL down?

The water looks a little better. It wasn't super cloudy before, just slightly. Now it's just somewhat hazy.. hard to explain... it's just not sparkling clear like it should be and chlorine is still way high and you can still smell chlorine.

Have been running the filter for 12-14 hours a day.

[medvampire]

With out a free chlorine test its hard to tell. I would continue to run at shock levels untill the pool clears. The strong chlorine smell may be because of combined chlorine. I would run the filter as much as posable cleaning the filter as needed. If you have a pool store see if you can get the water tested. While you are there check to see if they have a free chlorine test kit. Back in the spring I found a kit that was tablet based for about $6 for 20 test. You can use the tablet for free chlorine and OTO for total chlorine. I used that method for a month before I got a better test kit.
Steve

[rastoma]

YEAH!!!!!

Chlorine finally dropped!!

Still a little guess here since my test kit doesn't specifically do FC.

But based on what the test called just CL showed before I started using bleach, it's always been at 10+. Been putting bleach in a best guess shock levels (maybe even a little more) for the last 3 days and this morning CL shows 0, pefectly clear after adding the required 5 drops of OTO to the vial.

I have a 6 way test strip (which I know isn't very accurate but it's close to the numbers for everything compared to my drop tests) and it has a CL and FC reading and FC shows OK/LOW and it too shows CL at 0 or LOW/NONE.

been putting borax in for about a week and alkalinity got pretty high but it's fallen down to 150ppm and PH had been low but is now up to 7.8. I know PH is a little high. Should I worry about dropping it now or do you think it would be ok to let it go a day or so and see if it falls on it's own?

Stabalizer is at 60 now (was 50 previously). Is this too high? And I haven't added anything but bleach and borax. I thought stablizer had to be the only chemical you had to buy a pool store? How did it raise?

So do I need to still add bleach and keep CL at a certain level? I've been too busy reading on how to drop CL from the 10+ range that I need to study on if CL needs to stay 0 and FC needs to be in an acceptible range (have to go back and look what that range is).

Water look very good, but not sparkling still. It's not hazy anymore but seems to lose a little clarity, which I'm judging from looking at the print on the bottom of the liner. Maybe it's my eyes :)

But numbers look better, yes?

[rastoma]

I hope this thread doesn't get lost since it's two pages.

[aylad]

I would stop adding the Borax and give the pool a couple of days for everything to "settle out" and then retest....7.8 is a little high but not enough to cause you any problems.

Stabilizer does have to be added separately...the difference in readings is probably due to difference in testing (different light, different background, letting the water/reagent sit a different length of time, etc.). It is a very subjective test and only really gives you a ballpark, anyway. If you haven't added any more, then just go with 50-60, and that will give you an idea of where your chlorine needs to be. At 60, keep your Chlorine at minimum of 3 and max of 6. You do need to keep adding bleach to keep it at that level--don't let it get below 3.

Janet

[rastoma]

Great, thanks for the continued advice everyone.