DIY woes!

[sjkader]

Well we decided to do our own inground pool. We went with a 18x36 with 9 foot deep end. Did our research on which excavating crews the pool companies around here use. We contracted the one most of them use. Sat morning one guy shows up to dig this. First thing he askes "where's your crew?" Ok now im sure the dumb founded look on my face answered that question. so for $1500 you get a excavator and an operator. Oh man you could imagine my surprise.
We lucked out. the operator did take the time to help me out on the layout and taught me how to use the laser level. Of course I take the time to smack my hand with the hammer. Injury #1. So he gets this all dug out. I jump in to get the sides of the bottom right. im in there beating the heck out of these walls. nothing is moving. I learned one thing. about four foot down you hit what is called hard pan. Its a clay/dirt mix. Its as hard as concrete!

well this wont work. The excavator tells me to put up the sides and move it over about two inches and that will cut out on the hand digging. Hey great idea! so Sunday morning the little lady and I are moving out these steels panels. we are almost done when I misjudge a step and trip over one of the panels. Injury #2 (four stitches in right leg). Thats it! the little lady says we are calling in help. we call a local pool company recommended by the excavator and of course they cant come out for three weeks. They give us another name and number to call. We call them and explain the whole story. Nothing like explaining how you crippled yourself. :D . they come right out.
They are more then willing to pick up where we left off. They will do all the hand work for 65 an hour. the only thing we could say was. "when can you start!"

they start today. Boy am I happy. all the money we were saving is now going to the emergency room. :rolleyes: The pool company will do the hand work then we will set up the panels. Then they will give us a quote on the hard botoom. sounds like we will have them do that then we will take over again. should be healed up by then.

All in all it has been fun. I dont recommend anyone try to do the dirt work unless you are sure you know what your doing. we gave it our best but it was not good enough and that one thing has to be perfect.

Ill keep you all up todate on this project (medical bills)

[DogPaddle]

:eek:

Sounds like you've managed to maintain your sense of humor!! Keep us posted and try not to sever any limbs. ;)

[sjkader]

It took the pool installers only three hours to fix what mess we have created. we expected an all day event. Since we were expecting to pay for 8 hrs anyways the little lady told them to go ahead and put us the panels. :)
From the sounds of it she has also told them to do the hard bottom. She has been busy ordering all the supplies needed. The crew working on it said it would save us tons if we shopped around and brought our own materials in. They have no problem just charging for thier time. Finally a break in this pool saga!!

[beary]

>>I learned one thing. about four foot down you hit what is called hard pan. Its a clay/dirt mix. Its as hard as concrete! <<

Ahh, you live in central Oklahoma.

[sjkader]

actually I live in South Dakota. Must be imported hard pan:D

[sjkader]

the saga continues. Just found out that because the grade around the pool needs to be brought up we will be to close to a power line that runs to the house next door. is there anything we can do to get this fixed

[b2001]

Just found out that because the grade around the pool needs to be brought up

I'm not exactly sure what you're saying, but I assume that you're getting too close to an underground buried power service line. I'm thinking those lines should be 36" to 39" deep.


is there anything we can do to get this fixed
Yes, you'll have to pay to get it relocated, or you'll have to redo your pool to avoid it.

I don't recall how far you have to be from these lines, if your pool is 5' from buildings and property lines, I wouldn't think you have a problem, unless your neighbor's service is going through your property.


I don't know the particulars of your situation. Typically, your neighbor's service should not run across your property - does the power company have easements as indicated on your property plat for this? Not sure if you might have leverage or not to get the company move it and you not pay for it.

If you mean by "grade around the pool needs to be brought up" that the entire pool is going to be raised and is too close to a sagging overhead line, or is directly under it - the "solution" mentioned above probably still applies, although cheaper than underground, but I suspect still too expensive. I'd still have an issue with a neighbor's service going over my property.

I hope this helps somewhat - it's difficult to answer without more details.

[sjkader]

it is an overhead wire servicing the house next to ours. It cuts across our property. There is no recorded easments and the power company says they will move it off our property. the problem is that the house that it runs to encroaches our property by two foot and the service comes in from that side. so we have two options. first one is to have it moved to the front of the house and then we have to pay to move the meter to the front. second option is to have the power company leave the meter and run the overhead to the corner of the house then they would encase the line in a plastic tube and run it along the house to the meter.

The electrical inspector said in south dakota the line must be 22 feet above the pool. we were in the clear until the dig was done . our backyard slants so to make the pool level they used the highest end of the yard as thier benchmark. Doing so means we have to bring the grade up on the one side and that puts us to close to the line.

When we first started this project we had to move the pool due to our own buried power line. the pool has to be atleast 10 feet away from a buried line.
the real kicker in this whole thing is that the inspector said it would have been cheaper just to move our line. then we could have had the pool where we wanted it in the first place! :mad:

[sjkader]

update on our saga!
Talked to a few people in town and got the name of our local power company rep. Come to find out he is also on planning and zoning board. He comes out and first thing he says is " oh heck will just put a mid span pole here and move the line. no one be the wiser". oh heck yeah. One point for the pool project.
Today the hard bottom gets put in. Then we cut the pool guys loose and take over ourselves.:eek:
Started putting up our six foot fence this weekend. No injuries yet on that project. things seem to be turning around. KNOCK ON WOOD

[georgiapoollover]

My husband and I did all this same stuff 3 years ago. I would never do it again. We chose a pool company and put up with all their stuff to get it done without any injury...except to our egos.

[sjkader]

yet another update!!

The power company came out and moved the line at no charge!!:)
The pool-krete bottom is almost done. all that is left is the shallow end.!!:D
The fence is coming along at a snails pace, funny thing about drinking and putting a fence up. you do more drinking then building :D :eek:

[South_Texas_Sun]

Thanks (sjkader) for a good morning coffee laugh. It's a nice change from all the gloom and doom on the internet news sites. You ought to write a blog or book? as you seem to be a natural comic wit.

Of course, it won't be as funny if there's no more emergency room visits....lol .... JUST KIDDING! :)

STS

[sjkader]

Update!
Still working on the Fence. Its coming along. Not fast enough but is coming along. I dont know what the town is going to do once we get that fence up. Right now we probably have 75 to a hundred cars go by in a day to see whats going on. Used to be on a good day it would be 10 to 20 cars.
Small towns! got to love them. I'm really tempted to put bleachers up and charge 5 dollars per person. Pay for this project real quick:D I started plumbing all my lines. Should finish that tonight. then we will be ready to start putting the liner in. That will be intresting

[haze_1956]

Update!
I'm really tempted to put bleachers up and charge 5 dollars per person.


If you build it, they WILL come !! :D

.

[sjkader]

Update with a question!

Ok this weekend we started to install the liner. Was a piece of cake. Started our fill. We are filling from two garden hoses. City wont let us use a hydrant. (fire plug):mad: Here is my problem. My electrician called (after we started the fill and said he will not be able to come out till friday maybe beginning of next week. I did tell him i at least need the pump running. He said he would stop by tue night and run a temp drop to get the pump running. Ok great, but i cant cut the light out till he is done wiring it. ok so how do i open my returns up? the directions i have for my liner install says not to cut out the returns till the water is right below them. well if i wait to do that then my light will be under water.

The problem is how do i get circulation? should i just have the plumber run a temp return line out of something like sump hose over the side of the pool?

I dont want to fill past the light so i can open the returns just to drop the water back down so i can cut the light out. water runs me around 150 per every 3000 gallons. That is an option i want to avoid.

Also the water from the hoses has been slight green and murky from the get go. Im assuming that i had some algea in my hose already but not sure. What do you pool gods recommend i do to treat the water till i can get some circulation going and can treat the water right?

and on a final note. wet liner makes a dang good slip and slide :D

Steve

ps the pool is an 18 X 36 IG. 9 foot deep end. 3.4 shallow

[mbar]

If you have a vacuum head and hose, you can hook it up to the skimmer and have the water circulate through the vacuum head to the filter until you can get the water up to the skimmer. Just make sure the vacuum head does not come out of the water and get air.

[sjkader]

Getting water to the filter is no problem. I can use the main drains. The problem is returning the water back to the pool.
But thank you for your response.

[waste]

sjk, welcome to the forum, this thread's a hoot! (I love the comment on drinking and putting up the fence, I'm the same way with sheetrock :p )
What you should be able to do is fill the pool to just under 1/2 way up the light, install the faceplate and cut it out so that the electrician can get to what he needs to. At this point, the water should be high enough to do the returns (but not if they are too close to the corners - if the corners are 'loose' ie, liner not tight on them, and the return is within ~5', you could develop a huge wrinkle by putting the faceplate on without the water being all the way up) [there is a way to do it but you'd need 2 people]
As for the green water, put some bleach in there, circulation is a good thing but clean water is more important - just add it to the stream from the hose, it'll mix up enough.
If you think a wet liner is slippery, try it with a nice coating of algae :D
Again welcome to the forum, thanks for the HA-HAs, if I can be of any help, please don't hesitate to ask! - Waste

[Poconos]

Until you open the return lines can you jury rig the waste line from the filter to dump it over the edge of the pool? Would at least get circulation.
Al

[sjkader]

needless to say the returns are by the corners. I have been adding bleach but have not done a reading yet. the water has not hit the break point and i have no desire to try to reach over it and chance sliding in. that stuff is dang cold. I dont think the boys would apprecite the rush of cold water. ( the guys will understand what i mean) :D

[sjkader]

alrighty. Update time. When I got home i had two inches in the shallow end. Had to put the flanges on the stairs. Oh man did that suck. that water is cold!! my toes are pretty pissed at me.:eek: Took forever to get all those screws in. Im telling you all right now. I will never do this again.

on a side note. shop vacs do not like to run for extended periods. :D
would not bother me if it was mine ;)

[sjkader]

ok where to start this update?:confused:

Well we started plumbing in the pump, sand filter, and heater. Sent the little lady into town for some sand and a propane regulator. Told her no matter wat dont buy anything from the pool store but the sand.

While she was getting the regulator she saw that bleach was on sale for 89 cents a 3 quart jug. She could not pass that up. she bought 36 jugs:D
then she heads over to the pool store and as they are loading the sand they see all this bleach and freak out on her. the salesman starts telling her it will destroy her pipes and liner. That in no way could she use bleach. It took me over two weeks to convince her bleach was safe for our pool and 3 mins for him to tell her it was not.

Needless to say she calls me on her way home to tell me all this and that she bought $50 dollars worth of shock and algacide. Of course I was not the least bit amused by this.:mad: I dont blame her, she is just worried about the investment we have put into this project. As soon as she got home I made the call to the salesman. Asked him what gave him the right to tell her it would ruin her pool. he goes on and on how it is not the same ingrediants as pool chlorine. I told him he better read the bottles on both. Then he tells me that i will have so many problems with my ph and that it will cost me lots to keep it balanced.
I told him that i will worry about my pool. I also told him that we were planning on getting a hot tub next but after this crap that the only time i will ever go to his store is to return this stuff. I also told him that I liked how he did not give her a reciept. Nice try on not letting her bring it back. I informed him that i will bring it back myself. He said that was ok and if I want to destroy my pool that was my choice.

he sold her some bioguard burnout 35. its active ingredient is lithium hypochlorite. the little lady wants to know if this would be ok for a one time deal?
also he sold her some bioguard algicide 28-40. active ingredient alkyl(c14 58%, c16 28%, c12 14%) dimethyl benzyl ammonium chloride 40%. what is this?:confused:

now for my other problem. we have a hayward 300lb sand filter. the winter drain leaks. I figuired that maybe something got inbetween the seal. so i went to pull it off and reseat it. well come to find out the cross insert in the drain was put in wrong so it is not flush. now i have a leak and am not sure how to stop it. It is clearly a manufactures defect. the problem is that it is all hard piped in. does anyone know away to stop this leak without sending the tank back in without delaying this project any more?

Steve

[Poconos]

Steve,
Similar issue here with the 300# Hayward installed in 97. Only in my case they left out the short lateral that keeps the sand from dumping out when you drain. What a surprise on the first winterization drain. I'd recommend draining the thing, clean the threads with a scrub brush so no sand is in the threads, then goop the cap with silicone seal and put it back on. Make sure the soft seal, whatever the material is, is inside the cap. Oh, and on my problem, I made a short lateral from a piece of PVC pipe and cut slits in the thing. Quicker and a lot less hassle than dealing with Hayward or the company that redid my pool after I inherited the thing with the house. Don't interpret this as a knock against Hayward...I just did an easier fix that worked.
Al

[sjkader]

ok everything is now at a stand still. The pump is running. I have a temporary return line in. Here is the problem. I cant finish filling till i can cut out the light and have that wired in. the problem is that our electrician can not track down a junction box rated for pools. (wet locations) The state inspector says this is one of the things South Dakota will not budge on. Oh fricken great. so here is how this all works. I cant swim because the water is to cold because the heater is not wired. the heater is not wired because the light wont pass inspection. the light is not wired because my electrician cant find a junction box and some seal crap for the niche. my returns are not running because of the light. And to top it off. WE ARE RUNNING OUT OF NICE DAYS!!!

Would anyone know where i can get this crap from shipped overnight?

Steve

[sjkader]

Never mind! Found one:D

oh and I did manage to get that drain plug sealed with a bunch of thread tape. :)

and one other thing. they set the propane tank for the heater. The little lady decided it was cheaper to have me bury the line. all 35 feet of it!:eek: Her words were " you have a shovel" :rolleyes:

Break out the beer!! should only take me..lets see.... forever :D

[sjkader]

OK folks, I know your on the edge of your seats wondering what kind of progress was made this weekend!! Here it is.

Buried the propane line and then it rained. Oh and it rained. And then it rained some more. :D

Monday it did not rain, but for some reason the little lady thought the jungle should be mowed. Cracked out the mower and got right on that. half way through mowing I found a kid in the jungle. Heck! I knew we were supposed to have three. no wonder it has been so quite in the house this last week! :D

[mbar]

So glad you have a sense of humer:D Hope all goes well with the rest of your install, we are rooting for you all the way:)

[sjkader]

Update!!! WOO! WOO!

pool light installed so i could finish filling the pool. the water is almost to where it needs to be. Returns all in now so i can remove the temp line.:)

Pool Heater installed :D

Now for the fun part. DECKING!!! Might as well call the hospital and have a ER Doc on standby. The little lady says we are doing the decking ourselves.

NEED MORE BEER!!

[RavenNS]

Steve,
you really crack me up! :D

Thanks so much for these terrific updates & keep 'em comming :)

[sjkader]

:mad: update!
The saga for a pool continues.

Where to start? OH yeah, the heater. We fired up the heater. All 300k BTU's of it and it ran for ten mins and then shut off. It shut off everything. the display, the propane. Just dead!. Had the electrician come check it out. Still getting power so he dont know whats wrong. Called the plumber and he is not sure. Then it fired back up for five mins and shut down again. HMMMM.
Call Hayward tech support and they say sounds like a propane problem.

Ok Ill check into that. Start following the lines back and I find that the line is ice could at the tank. HMMM! this cant be right. Called the plumber and he says check your manual for a two stage high pressure propane system. Ah HA! there is the problem.

Seems the propane company ( who has installed pool heaters before) dropped a 3/8 inch line from the first regulator to the second. It should have been a 1/2 inch line. Call the propane company and of course the installer is on vacation. talk to the general manager and he does not even know how to install the lines. I'm telling you guys. This general manger is one heck of a winner. Im pretty sure his family tree dont branch. I got so fed up talking to him that i decided to unleash the bulldog on him. Oh thats right! He will regret this! I'm having the little lady call today! he is the walking dead right now and doesnt even know it!:D

Update later after the brawl

[KurtV]

...talk to the general manager and he does not even know how to install the lines. I'm telling you guys. This general manger is one heck of a winner. Im pretty sure his family tree dont branch. I got so fed up talking to him that i decided to unleash the bulldog on him. Oh thats right! He will regret this! I'm having the little lady call today! he is the walking dead right now and doesnt even know it!:D

Update later after the brawl
His name isn't Buck Strickland, is it?

[sjkader]

ok the propane company fought tooth (only has one I'm sure) and nail, but have decided to come out and change the line out. We will pay the diff. from the 3/8 to 1/2. they have already been out and replaced it and they will come out mon to dig up the old line and trench in the new one.

score one for the home team!!:D

[sjkader]

Here is the update for the weekend!

WE pretty much did not get anything accomplished. Friday we fired up the heater after the propane guys left. It now works the way it should. Spent from 10pm to 3:30 AM in the pool. Had it set to 95 degrees just to see how nice that is one time. The kids were all gone so it was Alone time :D

Saturday all kids were home. left the heat up to 95 so thay could at least feel it that high once. Wow what a blast.

now that the week is here again time to get that deck done. I also have one return line that leaks that i need to cut out and replace. Should get to that this week. Plan on keeping the pool heated at about 87 degrees for a couple weeks then close it down. its been in the 60's here but when you hit that 87 degree water its like swimming in the bath tub.

more to follow.

Im also trying to figuire out approx. how many gallons it is. it is an 18 X 36 rect. the shallow end is 3'4" and extends nine feet then the breakpoint starts and runs to a nine foot deep end. I have run the numbers different ways and come up with something different each time. Any help would be appreciated.

ps. cut my little toe open running to the pool. No stitches needed this time :)

[waste]

Thanks for keeping us up to date, I know I'm only one of many that have truely enjoyed this thread!! With reguards to the volume of your pool, I'd guess ~23,000 gal without 'crunching' any numbers. I've said before (but I'm too incompetent with the computer to save myself time by linking) that unless you hook up a watermeter while filling, you'll only have a good guess as to the actual gallonage. The real trouble with the computation is the 'average depth' and that # is a 'guestimate' (and the multiplier - I've always used 7.5, but it's actually closer to 7.49), so unless you can break the pool down into simple solids, who's volume can be easily figured, and add them all up, you end up with a 'fairly' approximat estimate. The real point here is that, it really doesn't matter. As long as you are 'in the ballpark', the recommended chem levels are forgiving enough so you can safely dose your pool. When dosing the pool always 'lowball' your estimated volume, you can always add a little more of whatever, but getting some of them back out can require other chems and some work. In practical, for you, terms, treat your pool as if it were 20,000 gal and shoot for the lowest increase or decrease you can - with a little experience with your pool, you'll learn what a gallon of bleach does or what 2 lbs of baking soda will do. :D Best of luck with the deck - and thanks for the giggles! - Waste

[sjkader]

Not sure how many are still following this thread but here is an update!

Not much is getting finished. every time we go out to work on it we end up swimming:)

Have been getting quotes on the decking. we are going a min amount on concrete then next year will do decrotive brick around the concrete. I just want the diving board in before we have a giant ice cube in the backyard.

The electrician came out and made all the temp lines permanent. while doing so he managed to break off the heater ignition module. Did he notice it? Heck no! or he did and did not say anything. either way i rigged it so it will work for the time being. I dont know if any of you have ever been to South Dakota but right now is not ideal swim season without a heater. Went through our first tank of propane. We will go through one more before I give up the battle and close it down. :D

Have had the pool up to 95 a couple of times. Its like swimming in your bath tub. have to love that.

The only real bad thing is getting out and covering the pool. man oh man is that dang cold. pretty sure i keep freezing something important :eek:

Thats the update as it stands now!

[mbar]

So glad that you are taking the time to enjoy the pool:) I am closing mine tomorrow:(:(. You will get the rest finished in time, but at least you didn't miss out on the fun now - Keep a big fluffy towel nearby to keep you warm when covering the pool - or get one of the swimmers to heat your towel before you get out:D, after all if you are the one who has to freeze, it's the least they should do!;)

[sjkader]

Update!!

Called a few concrete companies to come out and give quotes on the decking. Right now we are just going with a standard concrete deck. Min of 5' all the way around except where the diving board is. That section will be 8' as required in the directions. We fig if we do this atleast we have some barrier between the dirt and our crystal clear water.

Most of the companies we talked to said they would not even deal with it. they are afraid to spill concrete in the pool. OK no big deal. If they dont want my money, Ill just have to get over it ;) One company quoted 3500 to form and pour. Oh man sticker shock. Then A friend told us to call this other company. This other guy comes out. we tell him what we want. he says no problem ill write you a quote right now. goes out to his truck comes back in about ten mins with a quote. 2300:D then proceeds to tell me what that will get me. first he will finish the grade. then form and set rebar. next day he will come out and do the pour. where we need about a foot retaining wall, he said he will just pour a concrete step down. then he says since he will have his bobcat here, he will finish moving our top soil and get it ready for us to seed. All this for 2300. The only question the little lady had for him was "WHEN CAN YOU START?".

He starts wednesday.:)

It will be so nice to stop looking at p-rock and dirt.

Ill try to get some pics of the yard. Before, during, and after posted sometime this week.

[sjkader]

here is some pics. I hope!