Filling and liner stretching

[NWMNMom]

It was brought to my attention that there may be issues with the liner stretch and not fitting to the pool until it does. I know that the liner should be allowed to "relax" on a warm day in the pool when filling, but if in fact the only available water source is well water (54 deg F) then won't the effect be the same in that the liner will become rigid, not relaxing to fit until the water warms up? Are we going to experience wall bending/buckle? How much? Being new to this, I wouldn't want to be freaking out thinking we got the wrong sized liner or that we did something wrong in constructing the sides or coving, etc. which caused this. Or is this completely rumor that this will happen??

Is there any benefit to trying to run that fill water through the solar panel sets somehow to warm it up some while filling? We have a J-Hook liner on an 18x33 buttress free.

[vinnygnj]

My installers instructed me not to fill the pool overnight due to the cold night air is making the liner shrink and the water is making the liner stretch - made sense and I turned off the water at night. It took at least 2 full days to fill that thing. As far as water temps - the water out of the hose today was about 59º. I had the pool installed about the same time 5 years ago so I would imagine it was about the same temp.

[NWMNMom]

But is it true that we should expect our liner to not fit right off before filling, be somewhat small and some gap between the bottom/coving until the liner stretches or should it fit right at the time we begin filling, with only minor barely or unnoticable stretching? (we intend to use the shop vac to bring it to the walls before and as we fill) The water out of our hose is ALWAYS no more than 54 degrees being rural well water and ground temp. It would be filled during the day anyway, hate to risk the hose coming out and swamp the yard, wash out the landscaping fill or anything similar. thanks.

[Waterworks]

I would definitly put in any AG liner on any sunny day warmer than 12 celcius (probably 60 fahrerheit, but my conversion may be off.) I would definitly not worry about the temp of the fill water. The warmth of the sun and the shop vac will definitly take care of any stretching you need. Note: I did say sunny day. When the sun is out liners seem to be much stretchier (trust me, thats a word). If you are putting it in on an overcast day I would look for a bit warmer one.

Brad
www.waterworkspools.com

[vinnygnj]

What Waterworks said reminded me that my pool water was definately warmer than the hose water. I think it was due to solar heating. Since I was not dumping 1,000's of gallons in at a time, I believe the blue of the walls and the darker bottom made the water a little warmer (maybe 65 - 70) than the hose temp

[NWMNMom]

Ok, we do plan on putting it in on a sunny day. I appreciate all this help, I am completely stressed about doing this right and my hubby really didn't want a new pool so I want to be sure I don't stress him too! However, IS it supposed to be that way (small with gaps) or is is supposed to be just right to start with? If he sees the wall bend and buckle, I am sure to be blamed for doing or ordering something wrong!

[csevel]

NWMNWmom....I too am putting up a pool in the next couple weeks. My husband also wasn't too keen on this new venture as the costs are adding up. Any good tips on the liner installation will be greatly appreciated. I've read everything I can get my hands on and want to do it right. The liner will be a 18' beaded liner..I only have a small shop vac (5 gallon 1.25hp) Will that be sufficient to suck the liner to the walls??

[hrsdennis]

Hi all, I will answer a couple of questions here. It is the outside temperature and the amount of direct sunlight that allows the liner to stretch, not the temperature of the water. It is very true that if you are losing your sunlight for the day and your liner has more stretching to do it is ok to shut the water off for the night and restart the next day.

As for the amount of stretch, I stretch my liners in over the existing pool framework and let the water smooth the wrinkles out. When the water is just a few inches from the edge of the pool I shut the water off and put the liner into place. That seems to be just the right amount of stretching to assure a wrinkle free installation.

With beaded liners, good luck. Meaning, beaded liners are much more difficult to install. Most of the time they are to big for the pool and leave a lot of extra baggage on the sides. Secondly they are not meant to be stretched in so working the liner into place from inside the pool will usually cause unwanted footprints. My solution for this is to stretch the beaded liner into the pool like I would an overlap liner. When the water is near the edge of the pool I decide how I want to finish it. Most of the time I pull the liner over the wall and use coping to hold it in place, just like an overlap. If I see that it will stretch in nice using the bead receiver I will use that method. This way I know that however I do it, it will turn out nice. As for the shop vac, I don’t use one. That last few inches of stretch on the liner walls eliminates the need for one.

[KesLongwood]

NWMNWmom....I too am putting up a pool in the next couple weeks. My husband also wasn't too keen on this new venture as the costs are adding up. Any good tips on the liner installation will be greatly appreciated. I've read everything I can get my hands on and want to do it right. The liner will be a 18' beaded liner..I only have a small shop vac (5 gallon 1.25hp) Will that be sufficient to suck the liner to the walls??

OK, can you explain to me how the ShopVac come into play?

[hrsdennis]

Hi, Matt does a very good job of explaning the correct way to install a beaded liner in this thread.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=985

It will answer the shop vac question.

Dennis

[The Raddish]

I'm in the process right now of filling my pool after replacing the liner today. I have right at 12" of water in the pool currently, but the sun is setting. The low tonight is 69° F (about 20° C). Should I continue to fill overnight, or wait to start again in the morning? I used Matt's method of installation (mentioned in the post above mine), and there is some air gap between the liner and the wall above the water level.

Tomorrow's forecast is mostly sunny with occasional pop-up summer thunderstorms.

[hrsdennis]

Hi, with 12" of water in the pool you should be fine to let it fill all night. The stretching should be done and the liner tight against the wall. If so, let it go.

Enjoy, Dennis

[The Raddish]

There is some air gap between the liner and the wall in a few areas. Other areas the liner is pretty tight against the wall. If I continue to fill, won't the water just push the liner against the wall in the areas where there is air?

It's not much air, maybe a couple inches between the liner and the wall, most of it near the water level. Oh, and no wrinkles anywhere. We managed to do a very good job of stretching/removing wrinkles with the hot sun and shop vac during the day today. Liner went in around noon and has been baking in the sun all day long.

[hrsdennis]

Great job, I would let it fill.

Dennis

[The Raddish]

I did turn off the water last night because I was just uncomfortable with the two sides of the liner that are still bowed. I have been filling since early light this morning, and the pool is a little over half filled.

The liner seems to be a little stretched, though. What I mean by this is either my pool is not round, or the liner is not round. On the east/west sides of the pool the liner has only about three inches of overlap. On the north/south sides, there is about 8 inches of overlap. I never paid much attention to see if this was also the case with the old liner.

Is this normal?

[hrsdennis]

It could be either, but yes it is very normal. How did it fill up? Are you swimming in the morning?

Later, Dennis

[The Raddish]

It's full to just below the return. I'll cut in the return this evening when I get home from work (it's one of those Aqualuminators).

I can't install the drain yet because I am still missing the gasket. It's a Jacuzzi model that is rubberized, and the damn thing costs $60 for the set. I'll have the gasket Tuesday, so I'll install the drain Tuesday afternoon after work.

In the meantime, I'm considering running a piece of flex hose over the wall so I can run the pump and get some water circulating. The only problem I can see with doing this is that the hose might get stuck suctioning to the wall and put a hole in the liner as well as burn out the pump. I wonder if there might be a good way to do this that wouldn't be so potentially damaging? Any ideas?

I'd really like to get some chemicals in the pool and water circulating this afternoon if at all possible, even though I won't be able to use the drain just yet.

[ShelleyAnn]

Just to give you our experience with the Aqualuminator, we had it installed professionally and he put clear waterproof calking all over the inside of the rubber gasket that comes with it and made us let it cure for 24 hours before filling up. We didn't put calking around the skimmer because we installed it ourselves and the instructions didn't say to, but neither did the instructions for the light. Kinda makes me wish we had since a professional pool man used it.

That was the longest 24 hours ever for the reasons you are experiencing.

Shelley

[matt4x4]

I didn't have to do a thing with my aqualuminator, normal as per instructions install- neve leaked yet.

Liners seem to have that oval tendency - I thought my neighbour's was like that because of the big dip in his pool - a foot deeper in middle - barely stretched over wall at two oposing ends!

[The Raddish]

Yeah, that's how mine is. Barely two inches on two opposing ends. I'm putting on the coping strips this evening, even though I have about a foot of water left to go. I'm waiting on the gaskets for my drain before I install the drain and the return, but I think I can get the liner stretched over the wall tonight and maybe start on part of the beauty ring once I get all the coping strips in place.

I'm going to pour some more bleach in the water after the sun goes down and agitate it as best I can. The filter gaskets should be here tomorrow, so hopefully I can get the filter and return cut in and get some water moving tomorrow evening.

[hrsdennis]

Hi Raddish, sounds like it is all going well. Good luck with the coping and top rails this evening.

I agree Matt on both points. Above ground pool fittings should never need caulking. It just makes a mess when it comes time to change the liner.

There is a trend for oval liners to be short on the ends and wide from side to side. But vinyl stretches so easily it does not have to be a problem.

Later, Dennis

[The Raddish]

Any words of wisdom for dealing with coping strips over the seam on a metal pool? Between the seam and the duct tape and the liner, it's about 3/8" thick there. Should I just shove coping over it as best I can?

[hrsdennis]

Hi, that's all I do. Force it on and then put the rod over it.

[The Raddish]

Well, I tried and tried and tried. Ain't no way in hell that the rod is going over that seam, with or without the coping strip. I did get the coping strip over it, but the rod simply will not go no matter what I do.

The seam is behind one of the vertical supports, and the sheet metal plate thingie easily spans the distance between the two rods, so is it alright to just leave it like that? It's about an inch and a half uncovered by the rod, but covered by a stressed coping strip.

Also, the rods seem to be lower than they were before. When I put them on tonight, they are too low to fit under the uprights. I actually have to raise them about 1/4" so that they rest on the tracks in the uprights. Is that normal?

[hrsdennis]

Nothing wrong with doing it that way. And it is pretty common for the rods to have to come up a touch to fit the uprights.

It all sounds good.

Dennis

[The Raddish]

hrsdennis, I really appreciate all of your reassuring posts. It really makes me feel better about the whole project when all of my little "oops" are pretty much normal to someone who does this for a living.

Thanks for all of your encouragement! I'll post pics when I finally get this thing done. :)

[hrsdennis]

Hi friends, may I suggest checking here first.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=3064

[hrsdennis]

The post I was refering to was rightfully removed but the link will take you to some fun reading in the Hall of Shame.

By all means Raddish, I would love to see the pics.

Dennis