Green, Cloudy, Dirty, I got it all in my salt water pool?

[alexhearn@alx1.com]

I'm a big time newbe to salt water system's, and to taking care of my own pool. I'm willing to do all the work to get it going including testing the water, but I have no idea what I can and can't do with a salt water pool. What chemicals can I use, and are there any that I shouldn't use? Can I still use Bleach, Borax and Baking soda? This pool looks very old, but the Salt water system is fairly new lookin and the filter and pump look like they are in ok shape. It has a Haywood H40 salt system, with a large Haywood Sand filter. The pool itself is a oval shaped diving pool, by Master Pools, with a Small Spa in the shallow end. It has a new in May (if I have been told the truth?) Pebbletec finish. I find it hard to believe that a pool could get this dirty since May. We just moved here two weeks ago. I'm trying not complain to the owner's, even though I expected this to all ready be done. I don't think the owner took the time to take care of the pool or to learn how to use the salt water system.
Here in Arizona I consider the pool a necessity. Can any one help me whip it into shape. By whip I'm referring to the work that I will have to do, not the time it will take, I know it's going to take a lot of work and popp.

I'm not sure of the size, I tried to figure it out and came out with any where from 22-30,000 gallons. I have been running the filter for most of the past week, half of the time with a Haywood Navigator pool shark running the rest of the time through the skimmer? The Pool has gotten a little better, I can at least see the bottom in the shallow end. :mad: Where should I start? Does it need to be emptied? Help please...

Alex

[Watermom]

Yes you still can use bleach, borax, and baking soda in your pool. Post some current water testing results from a drops based kit and tell what all you have added to the pool - ingredients. Then somebody here with salt water pool knowledge can help you get this thing straightened out. Welcome to the forum, by the way!

[alexhearn@alx1.com]

Thanks Watermom,

I'm on my way out to get a drop kit right now, I guess I want one that can give me all the readings I'll need? I have not really added anything to the pool yet. Just lots of brushing, vacuming and running the filter.

Alx

[PatL34]

Alex,

Welcome to the forum and the gentle art of using a SWCG.

Once you have posted some test results as Watermom mentioned, we can help you "whip it into shape".

I created a generic post on SWCG operations in the thread below, to help you understand what happens in a salt pool.

http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=1226

There is also a bleach calculator by mwsmith2 that can help adding the correct amount of chemicals.

http://home.earthlink.net/~mwsmith70/data/BleachCalc262.exe

Hopefully this will help to get you started.

Pat

[alexhearn@alx1.com]

I went down to Leslie's and got a pretty good test kit, "The Complete Poolcare DPD Test Kit"

I also stopped at the Safeway and got the BBB's

Here's the readings:

FC=1.5PPM
TC=.5PPM
CC= -1PPM? NEGATIVE 1PPM? COULD THAT BE RIGHT?

BR=4PPM

PH= 8+ OFF THE CHART
ACID DEMAND TEST 4 DROPS TO GET TO 7.6, 5 DROPS TO 7.4

TA=150PPM
CH=250-300PPM

CYA=60-70PPM DID TEST 2 TIMES

SALT GENERATOR IS READING 3300PPM

THE POOL IS 32FT LONG AND 16FT WIDE, 8-9FT DEEP IN THE DEEP END,
3.5 IN THE SHALLOW END WITH ROUNDED SIDES, ALSO IT HAS A SPA.

It looks like I need lots of Bleach and Some Muratic acid, but how much?

Alx

[waterbear]

First thing to do is get some muriatric acid in the pool and get the pH down to about 7.4-7.6. I would add the acid a pint at a time and restest until the pH is in range.

CYA is perfect for a SWG.
TA will probably be fine once the pH is corrected
CH is fine.
Salt level is fine.

What is the output percentage of the salt generator set to?

By the way if you need the manual for your SWG you can download it here
http://www.goldlinecontrols.com/media/092009i.pdf
Here is a link that shows how to clean the cell
http://www.goldlinecontrols.com/Maintenance.aspx

Also, don't use the superchlorinate function to shock, it's not as effective as using bleach to shock and will shorten your cell life!

Explain how you got your FC and TC reading because they make no sense.
Is your test kit DPD (reagent drops added to a color matching tube) or FAS-DPD (titration test...count the drops)?

I suspect that your TC is 1.5 ppm, your FC is .5 ppm and your CC is 1 ppm. that would make more sense.

Second order of buisiness,
Get as much junk as you can out of the pool and then shock the pool with about 7 gallons of Ultra Bleach. run the filter continuously. this should start clearing the water. It's hard to give exact dosing because you are not sure how many gallons the pool is but this should get you in the neighborhood ot 15 -20 ppm chlorine. It's a staring place!;)
Hope this helps.

[alexhearn@alx1.com]

Thanks Water Bear,

Well I got the $47 Leslie's kit that did all the things that I would need? According to what I have read here in the forum, FC, TC, CC. PH, TA, CH, and CYA. I will order the one from the site too, but I figure I needed this in a hurry. They have one for $84, but that did the other test that so far from what I read here is not needed , hopefully that is?
For the FC test it says fill small tube to the 9ml line and add 5 drops DPD Reagent #1, 5 drops DPD Reagent #2, then invert and match to color chart. then it say add 5 drops reagent #3 and invert and match to color chart again, and that's TC? which is lower? then it says to subtract FC (Which is the higher number?) from the TC (which is the lower number?), and that gives you CC, but a larger number from a smaller number always gives you a negative number correct? I guess you just suppose to ignore the negative?

Well I only got 4 gallons of bleach I'm dummy I'll get some more :)

I put it in and now I get reading's of:

FC=5ppm
TC=2ppm
CC= -3ppm which must just be 3ppm, So actually maybe I need like 8 gallons more to pump it up to 10-11 range?

My pool last year (Different house), Was also a Master Pools Pool, of a very similar size and I know that was 22,000 gallons? so this must be around that, I think it might even be a tad bigger?

I just did the Pool gallon estaimater in the link you gave me and came up with 23,175 gallons that's not counting the spa and a little bit if space around the spa that adds to the pool, so I guess 24,000 gallons would be about right, as I say a tad bigger than last years..

I will also get the Acid in the AM too.

Thanks You Guys I appreciate all the help. I should say knowledge. B:-)

This is like going to pool College... Can't wait to post some pic's of some clean water and the kids having fun. Then maybe I'll feel like I got my degree.. :)

The Salt Generator is set to 100%, which I was thinking is not good, But that's where the owner's had it set so I didn't touch it, yet! The Salt Generator is saying to inspect cell, So I suppose the cell needs cleaning? Guess you couldn't have giving me that link at a better time. Are you watching me ;)

Alx

P.S.

I think I'll run down to Super Wallmart right now 12 midnight, and get the Bleach and maybe the Acid too if they have it. I guess I got pools water on the brain.

[Watermom]

In your pool, a half a gallon (2 quarts) will raise your cl a little more than 1ppm.

Ideally, FC and TC are equal which would mean that your CC reading is 0 which is what you want. FC + CC = TC. On your test kit, you should subtract TC - FC to find CC. TC should be the higher number or better yet, equal to FC. Thus, you should never get a negative number for CC.

[duraleigh]

I suggest you accelerate the acid dosage to 1 guart per dose. At a pint per dosage, you may well dose for 3 days before you bump it off that 8+ reading. I believe it would be helpful to get it into a measurable range more quickly......it may take a gallon or more to get you to 7.4.

[waterbear]

Thanks Water Bear,

Well I got the $47 Leslie's kit that did all the things that I would need? According to what I have read here in the forum, FC, TC, CC. PH, TA, CH, and CYA. I will order the one from the site too, but I figure I needed this in a hurry. They have one for $84, but that did the other test that so far from what I read here is not needed , hopefully that is?
For the FC test it says fill small tube to the 9ml line and add 5 drops DPD Reagent #1, 5 drops DPD Reagent #2, then invert and match to color chart.
This is your FC reading
then it say add 5 drops reagent #3 and invert and match to color chart again, and that's TC?
Correct, this will be either the same as your FC reading or higher. (the color will either stay the same or turn a deeper pink.) If your FC reading was 3 ppm and then you add reagent #3 and the color deepens to the 4 ppm reading then your FC is 3 ppm TC is 4 ppm and CC= TC-FC=4-3=1 ppm.
which is lower? then it says to subtract FC (Which is the higher number?) from the TC (which is the lower number?),
There is no way the TC (reading after reagent #3 is added) can be lower than FC (reading after reagents #1 and #2)! The TC reading will always be equal to or greater than the FC! When you add the third reagent to the tube the color will either stay the same or get deeper pink.
and that gives you CC, but a larger number from a smaller number always gives you a negative number correct? I guess you just suppose to ignore the negative?
TC will always be equal to or greater than FC!

[alexhearn@alx1.com]

I'm thinking that maybe my reagent #3, has gone bad then? Even though it's a brand new test kit when I got it home the r#3 had some crusty junk on the outside of the bottle? maybe it had a air leak and went bad? because every time I add R#3, the color gets lighter? I have got the ph down to 7.2-7.4,

Fc= 12-15 right now i guess I can't trust the Tc and CC reading right now? I'll try to run down to Leslie's see if they are still open and have them do a sample and see what they get for reading's then I'll tell them about my test kit? :)

Thank You again Guys and Gals...


Alx

[alexhearn@alx1.com]

Well sure enough I got a bad r#3 they replaced it, re-tested a water sample for me, they actually say that my cya is only 30ppm not 80, so Lillie's says that I need some conditioner? Is there any thing I can get that would be cheaper then the $41.00 Leslie's charges for conditioner? they say I need to use 3/4 of the barrel?

How much and what is Clarifier? The kid there said that if the pool doesn't clear in a couple of days to get some clarifier?

I was good I didn't get any of this stuff.. I wanted to check with the forum first?

Today this is what I did, tested water twice plus once at Leslie's it seems to be holding study for now.. It is still green and still not clear?

I vacuumed the pool manually again, cleaned my salt cell.

I really want to just jump in, but I'm afraid I'll get some weird illness and die?

POPP! I keep telling my self!

Alx

[duraleigh]

POP, POP, POP. There are no "magic bullets" from the pool store.

It's certainly your call but adding bottles of "super duper whatever" only gets you off track from your process.

That said, if you feel you have waaay too much money, it will relieve you of that feeling.

[aylad]

You don't need more conditioner (CYA, stabilizer, same things). And stay away from the clarifier, like Dave said--be patient, keep your Cl up, and your filter running!!


Janet

[waterbear]

I would not trust leslie's CYA testing....there was another thread on here where it was shown that they (most likely) are testing it wrong!
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showpost.php?p=27452&postcount=27
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showpost.php?p=27476&postcount=29

[alexhearn@alx1.com]

Just re-tested all, with my new r#003.

FC=10ppm
TC=10ppm
so TC-FC=CC, 10-10=0.0
CC=0ppm
PH=7.0 is this ok for a salt pool?
CYA=50ppm

TA=150ppm
CH=250ppm

I Cleaned My Salt Cell as per MR, from the link you gave me. Dumped the barrel in the pool as recommended, but that's probably why the drop to 7.0PH from 7.2PH. Any way the cell doesn't say "Inspect cell" any more now it says "high Salt". So I guess I need a Salt testing kit?

Do I want to add more Bleach and get my FC back up to 12-15ppm?

but other then that no real change yet, It's still cloudy and green, I can see to the bottom in the deep end but not good? The Shallow end is a lot better.

Alx

[alexhearn@alx1.com]

With the FC so high I don't know how it could be but there are small creature's living in the water? I think they are a small bugs but they were darting around like fish? 2 or 3 of them around the light at night?

1/2 inch long with Little wings they use like fins in the water? do I need to drain this or will POP be enough?

[waterbear]

Keep your FC up until the pool clears. In the meantime get your salt level tested....you might need to drain some water to dilute it. You want about 3200 ppm. The AquaChek White salt strips are fairly accurate. They should be within a few hundered ppm of you actual salt level.

[alexhearn@alx1.com]

Actually this afternoon the pool was clear? I vacuumed and brushed and now it's a little hard to see the bottom in the deep end clearly, but you can see it. The shallow end and the spa look clear?

FC=12.5-15ppm
TC=12.5-15ppm
CC=0.0

PH=7.2

In the light there are lots of little white specs in the water I'm guessing salt, outside of the occasional bleached white piece off grass that's all there is in the water.

I still have to get a salt test kit, or strips.

How high of a FC reading is safe to swim in? The kids are starting to ask? B:-) I guess I'm on the right track.

Thank You So Much Everyone, but especially you Waterbear, you practically held my hand the whole way.

[waterbear]

Actually this afternoon the pool was clear? I vacuumed and brushed and now it's a little hard to see the bottom in the deep end clearly, but you can see it. The shallow end and the spa look clear?

FC=12.5-15ppm
TC=12.5-15ppm
CC=0.0

PH=7.2

In the light there are lots of little white specs in the water I'm guessing salt, outside of the occasional bleached white piece off grass that's all there is in the water.
Salt, calcium or dead algae most likely
I still have to get a salt test kit, or strips.
very important
How high of a FC reading is safe to swim in? The kids are starting to ask? B:-) I guess I'm on the right track.
Let it drop to about 10 ppm
Thank You So Much Everyone, but especially you Waterbear, you practically held my hand the whole way.
my pleasure!:)

[alexhearn@alx1.com]

Today it was even clearer.

FC=10
TC=10
CC=0

Ph=7.2

Vac'd and the pool stayed pretty clear tonight.

Looks like I'll finally have a weekend were I can enjoy the pool a little.

We've been lucky lately no 110*-115* but now I'm ready bring on the heat. B:-)

I'll still get the Salt test kit this weekend.

Again though thank you Everybody!

Alex