Looking to "convert" to BBB? Have questions though. [Archive]

View Full Version : Looking to "convert" to BBB? Have questions though.

troykristoffer

07-27-2006, 06:15 PM

If there's one thing I've learned from my new home's pool, its ask here first, save headaches later.

I am interested in switching from Chlorine Pucks to BBB. Honestly, this is my first season, and aside from the recent algaecide foam nightmare, it has been chrystal clear and easy to maintain with the pucks.

I have noticed my CYA creeping up and realize this is not good, which is why I was looking into the BBB.

My questions are as follows:

1. How do I start? Just shock the pool with 1243 gallons of chlorox? Or do I have to do some dance to prepare the puck-chlorinated water for chlorox?
2. Do I have to empty the pool first to get rid of the CYA?
3. Speaking of CYA, I've read that it doesnt break down and go away. How do I get rid of it then? (Ignore this question if the answer to #2 is yes.)
4. Where the heck do you get all that bleach? My local supermarket doesnt carry more than probably 10 gallons of plain bleach on the shelf...(maybe in back?) how long would that last me?
5. I read about this "formula" that tells me how much bleach to use in my pool. What is it?
6. Would it be better just to continue using the pucks til the end of this season and start out with the BBB next season?
7. I'd rather not convert if its going to put the pool out of commission for a large chunk of the remaining pool season. How long does conversion take? (i.e. How long will it take before I can swim again?)
8. Haha... can I use the scented bleach and have a flowery smelling pool?
9. If I continue using pucks how do you control CYA?
10. What exactly happens when CYA gets too high again? ( I know what its purpose is, but cant remember what the problem it causes is. )

Thank you profuseley to anyone who takes the time to answer my questions. :)

poolmom06

07-27-2006, 06:44 PM

OK I will try to answer as many of your questions as I can...
1. I just started, but my question is how many gallons does your pool hold, I seriously doubt you need that much bleach, if you are not having a problem, and just want to maintain your chlorine level, 1-2 gallons per week would be plenty.
2. If your CYA is extremely high, I would do a partial drain and refill to lower the level.
3.see above
4. I get mine at WalMart, I get the Great Value Ultra bleach, you can get 3/4 gallon for $1.28 or a 1.25 gallon for $2.28(means less bottles)
5. The bleach calc needs to be downloaded, I will find it and post it for you.
6. If you want to switch over this year, there is no reason why you can't, just stop using the pucks, and start using the bleach... that's what I did..
7. it won't put the pool out of commission or at least it didn't mine, it actually put mine into commision( I was dealing with an algae bloom and it took care of it, quick!) Just maintain your chlorine level between 3-6 ppm.
8. I honestly don't know the answer to this question, I have no idea!
9. You can buy it at the pool store, it's also known as stabilizer, it keeps the chlorine from burning off immediately, you need it in your water just not alot of it!
10. The only way to bring CYA is to do a partial drain and refill... sorry!!
I hope this helps just a little, keep reading here, read all the stickies and ask all the questions you have, none is too stupid. When I found this place, I was dealing with a huge algea problem, the BBB method cleared it right up and I have used it religously since. Make sure you get a good test kit, one that measures TC, FC, PH, ALK, CYA and CA... the readings will come in handy here. Welcome to the forum, do your homework and read all the posts, it will take you some time but you will be happy you did it, so will your pocketbook!!
Good Luck to you and be sure to stick around!!

duraleigh

07-27-2006, 06:47 PM

1. Buy a test kit that will test for FC, CC, pH, Alk, and CYA.....then keep reading everything you can on this forum...particularly the stickys

2. Yes

3. Ignored

4. Buy it....they'll get more.

5. "bleachcalc"....downloaded from posts by mwsmith2 on this forum

6. No

7. 3-5 seconds...seriously

8. No

9. You cant

10. Usually, a very green, algae-laden pool

poolmom06

07-27-2006, 06:50 PM

[URL="http://home.earthlink.net/~mwsmith70...achCalc262.exe"[/URL]
there is the bleachcalc link, hope it works!!

sevver

07-27-2006, 07:04 PM

here (http://home.earthlink.net/~mwsmith70...achCalc262.exe)
it is actually.

troykristoffer

07-27-2006, 10:53 PM

waterbear

07-27-2006, 11:13 PM

try this link for bleachcalc
http://home.earthlink.net/~mwsmith70/data/
then click on bleachcalc262.exe to download it. Don't know why it isn't working like it ususally does.

You need to use plain , unscented bleach. the scented bleaches are NOT EPA approved sanitizers. I would get a drop bases test kit ASAP. YOu can get a decent basic one at WalMart for under $20 that will test all paramters except free chlorine (and there is no easy way to test shock levels of chlorine with it) that will get you by for a while but you really should invest in a good kit like the Taylor K-2006 or the PS234 sold on the sister website to this forum www.poolsolutions.com
It is a much better 'bang for the buck' than the Taylor kit!

KurtV

07-27-2006, 11:14 PM

Hehe, thank you all for your help. I really appreciate it. My pool is approximately 25,000 from what I can calculate (35'L x1 6'W x 6'AVD x 7.5 rectangle = 25,200 gal) The bleachcalc program is no longer available at that link, but I certainly appreciate the help!
Search for posts by mwsmith2. There's a link to BleachCalc in every one of his signature lines. Some of the links work and some don't.

Okay... just a couple more questions...

I have expensive test strips...they have the little squares on them that test for all of the things you mentioned...(Hardness (which I think is CC right?) Total Chlor, Free Chlor, pH, Alk, and CYA) is that good enough or do I need to get the chemistry set? (I will if I need to, its just that I Have a whole bottle of these strips already that I just bought... and I'd hate to waste them, since it has all the tests you mentioned anyway.)
Get a good test kit. An FAS-DPD test is best. The Taylor K-2006 is an excellent one but the PS-234 that Ben sells on PoolSolutions.com is even better (Ben's kit is very similar to the Taylor kit but is a much better bang for the buck; he has right-sized the reagents so that you'll get more of those you use more frequently). A distant third place is the 5-way test from Wal-Mart. It's a good stop-gap until you get the Taylor kit or (preferably) Ben's.

So, I just did a reading from the strips.
Harness is low (100ppm) (BTW...is this CC? [Calcium?])
Total Chlorine is low (0.5ppm) (I just put new pucks in exactly 24 hours ago!)
Free Chlorine is low (0.5)
pH is low (6.8)
Alk is low (40)
CYA is IDEAL (30-50)

These readings are very suspect because they're based on guess-strips. Is there a good local pool store you can go to for testing until you get a good test kit? Most do it gratis.

So... heres my question... seeing how this pool test (assuming these test strips are accurate enough.) is reading low on everything, and Ideal on CYA is it safe and advisable to just go ahead with the BBB method without emptying the pool? Cuz I certainly can't do that right now. We have to pay for our water. (As Im sure alot of you do too...) and it would probably take a month to fill my pool! LOL
If your CYA test is accurate, you'll be fine with using bleach as your chlorine source (that's a big if).

Again, thank you for all your help!

Oh...and if I cant use the flowery bleach, can I use the mountain fresh scent?
No. Unscented only. Generic is cheaper and just as effective.
Best of luck.

troykristoffer

07-28-2006, 11:44 AM

Best of luck.

Heehee...I was kidding about the scented bleach :)

Thank you all for your help. I will take some water to my local pool store this weekend and then if I'm lucky, just go buy a truckload of bleach from the store.

Bergerman

07-28-2006, 05:09 PM

you need to get the cl up. ph needs to increase above 7.2 and the alk should come up. Try getting the cl to increase with plain bleach, this sometimes increases the ph in my pool. I would solve 1 problem at a time and keep posting your #s. Get a good test,it is a great investment(my kids love doing the testing).

good luck,
Ed

kjmelak

07-29-2006, 09:00 AM

Were you kidding about the 1243 gallons of bleach?

Mom2Czars

07-29-2006, 09:49 AM

I'm a new pool owner and started out with BBB. I got an FAS/DPD drops based chlorine test kit at Leslie's for a reasonable price and I use it religiously. I'm to a point where I know I'm pretty much going to need to add enough bleach to increase my ppm by 1 each day. For my 13.5k pool, that's about 3 2/3 cups of bleach each day. SO easy. I'm in the process of adding stabilizer so I'll have to adjust a bit accordingly.

I think you only have to do a partial drain/fill if your CYA is astronomically high. Otherwise just refer to the 'best guess' chart and dose the chlorine accordingly.

troykristoffer

07-29-2006, 06:09 PM

Were you kidding about the 1243 gallons of bleach?

What? It won't take that much? :p

Didn't get to the pool store today, but Im not really done reading up yet anyway.

I was looking at the PS234 and I'm very intimidated by it. Any tips? Its a bit out of my price range too, which if its worth it, I'll buy it, but I'm just afraid that I'll hate it cuz it certainly looks very complicated.

Watermom

07-29-2006, 07:01 PM

Very easy to use and well worth the price. If you can read and count, you'll be fine! You won't be sorry if you decide to order the PS234.

waterbear

07-29-2006, 07:05 PM

The ps234 is a much better value than the Taylor K-2006 which is the closest kit to it! The taylor kit gives you a lot less reagents so you have to buy refills much sooner! (The CYA reagent in the Taylor kit is only enough for about 5 tests!)

If you are going to take care of your pool you NEED a good test kit! No way around it!

troykristoffer

07-29-2006, 08:13 PM

Okay :)

I'll get it. The worst that will happen is I have to ask for help on here lol.

I made a spreadsheet in Microsoft Excel for anaylizing my testing. I did a test with the color test strips and used the values on the color chart and now realize why you all say that I cant trust it.

My total Alk is 0 and my CYA is either 0 or ideal at 30, but I cant tell which.

I used bleachcalc to see how much stuff I'd need to raise the Alk to 90ppm (Which the pool guide I bought says is midrange of ideal) and it said 31 pounds! That cant be right can it? Of course, this is all assuming the test strip is accurate which I dont really.

Ordering the PS234 now... :)

BTW... we went to the grocery today to get bleach... and it was only 1.89 a gallon. My partner was like "Lets go to the self-checkout... " cuz he didnt want to get strange looks with us buying 20 gallons of bleach hehe. I thought it was funny. I told him that I've read stories on this forum of people's partners acting the same way and to relax.

BTW, he thinks its great that I found this forum though.

waterbear

07-29-2006, 08:22 PM

Okay :)

I'll get it. The worst that will happen is I have to ask for help on here lol.
That'e exactly what the forum is for!
I made a spreadsheet in Microsoft Excel for anaylizing my testing. I did a test with the color test strips and used the values on the color chart and now realize why you all say that I cant trust it.
Bingo!
My total Alk is 0 and my CYA is either 0 or ideal at 30, but I cant tell which.
Double Bingo!

Ordering the PS234 now... :)
You won't regret it!
BTW... we went to the grocery today to get bleach... and it was only 1.89 a gallon. My partner was like "Lets go to the self-checkout... " cuz he didnt want to get strange looks with us buying 20 gallons of bleach hehe. I thought it was funny. I told him that I've read stories on this forum of people's partners acting the same way and to relax.
You can always tell people you run a meth lab!;)
BTW, he thinks its great that I found this forum though.
We think it's great you found us too...and when you realize how easy and inexpensive your pool will be to take care of you will REALLY think it's great!

troykristoffer

07-29-2006, 10:00 PM

You can always tell people you run a meth lab!

Shhh! Thats a secret! I dont want to have to move again...

troykristoffer

07-30-2006, 04:38 PM

Okay, so in the interest in trying to get my pool swimable before my PS234 gets here, I went to NAMCO and bought their most complicated chemistry set.

Unfortunatley it doesnt test for CYA or Hardness but it does test for FC, TC, pH, and Alk, so Im at least better than the strips, until PS234 gets here.

So... here are my drop based readings from this kit:

FC: 0.4
TC: 0.4
pH: 7.6 (Yay!)
Alk: 190 (Whoa..)

Interestingly my strips still say my Alk is ZERO. Probably cant register it cuz its so high.

If thats not enough to tell me exactly why I shouldnt use strips, I dont know what is.

Are there detrimental effects of swimming with alkalinity this high? I sorta understand that Alk is the stability of your pH level, or how easy or difficult it is to change. What I dont understand is how to lower it...

I read the sticky in the alk forum, but I dont want to lower my pH, I want to lower alkalinity... my pH is at a good level isnt it? Confused on that.

Added a gallon of chlorine which bleachcalc tells me should bring my Chlor to 2.5.

I still have some major suds on top of my pool which wont seem to go away, and some cloudyness after the algeacide nightmare. I tried a anti-foam product and that helped but only temporarily. Tried a clarifier, and that didnt do anything. (The only reason I tried it, is cuz it worked beautifully before.)

I'm hoping the chlorine spike may zap the suds. We'll see.

And the "Conversion" goes on...lol

duraleigh

07-30-2006, 06:05 PM

Hi, Troy,

Reading from your first post to your last, it looks like you decided to get serious. That's great...you will love Ben's kit and love your pool as a result.

1. I can't see where you've posted whether your pool is vinyl or gunite...that's important.

2. Your priorities are a little off.....focus first on getting your Cl level right up in the 3-6ppm range. My thinking is it's gonna drop pretty quickly and you're gonna' have to replenish frequently with bleach. It's important that you keep it at least 3ppm 24/7.....higher won't hurt a bit, it will only help.

3. Stop putting ANYTHING else in your pool. No "magic bullets".....patience, balancing your water, and testing and dosing correctly will clear your pool. Other folks who have used the foamy algaecide report it will go away in a few days. For now, simply run your pump 24/7 and keep your filter clean. Is it sand, cart, or DE?

4. Lastly reread the Alk lowering process when you get all the above done. Your in no harm with the Alk @ 190. It'll be best to address that last.

5. Your probably gonna' need to shock, but we can't tell you how much bleach until we get a trustworthy CYA test result. I suggest going to a pool store (remember, no more "magic bullets") and have them test for you and post the results back up.

Synopsis: Clean your pool up by running the pump 24/7, keeping the Cl at 3+ppm, and giving it some time. May have to shock but a CYA result is in order first. Adress your Alk after everything is cleaned up...you're in no danger.

troykristoffer

07-30-2006, 09:52 PM

Thank you for your advice. I have a gunite pool :)

Sorry, its in my signature now.

Unfortunately, tomorrow's monday, and I work from 9-9 m-f so until next weekend, I cant fiddle with the pool, other than testing with my current kit and keeping the chlorine up. I'll keep it running though and maybe the foam will disappear.

CarlD

07-31-2006, 06:38 AM

Troy,
You've gotten some really sound advice here. There are some stickied posts at the top of this topic group, and the pool chemistry problems group, and the chlorine group that can help.

If you need the test kit RIGHT NOW, then Leslie's on-line site has a "Chlorine FAS-DPD Service Test Kit" that you can probably get drop-shipped overnight and have tomorrow. It's made by Taylor for them, and is basically the same as the Taylor 2006, re-labeled for Leslie's. In terms of the chemistry, these two are the equivalent of the PS-234 and will give you equally accurate readings. No, neither gives you as many refills of reagents, nor as clear a set of instructions, nor as well laid-out a kit--you have to hunt for stuff, nor a good log.

But they are the ONLY kits I know that can give you the readings Ben's kit gives you. If you need it RIGHT NOW, that's the way to go. If you want the best and can wait a little longer, Ben's PS-234 is the way to go.

troykristoffer

07-31-2006, 01:03 PM

Troy,
If you need the test kit RIGHT NOW, then Leslie's on-line site has a "Chlorine FAS-DPD Service Test Kit" that you can probably get drop-shipped overnight and have tomorrow.

Thats really exactly what I've done. I ordered that kit from leslies, and intend on replacing it with Ben's when Im done.

I realized by reading some of the threads in the kit forum that since he is just a guy helping us out that he probably would not be able to get me a kit for at least a couple weeks.

So, I ordered leslies, and when I have used about half of the reagents in that, I'm going to order Ben's.

Great mind's think alike :)

Thank you all for your help. I really appreciate it.