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View Full Version : Success with Baquacil so far



ccr-n-ia
07-24-2006, 04:28 PM
I'm sure that I'll have lots of folks telling me I'm wrong on this - but I chose to stick with Baquacil because I didn't want to manage it so carefully (my wife doesn't want to have to deal with it, and I'm travelling a lot).

This is my 4th season with Baquacil in a 17.5K gal pool. Over that time, I've been reasonably successful with only two major problems:
1) started when I accidentally sucked a rag into the pump and didn't realize it for several days, developed water mold (white milky appearance), couldn't see the bottom of the pool.
2) around 1 year later, I developed water mold, couldn't see the bottom of the pool.

One standard symptom of water mold that I experienced is that you can't keep any level of hydrogen peroxide for long.

Both times, I resolved the problem by replacing the sand in the filter (had lots of strings of growth of this bioslime water mold stuff growing through the sand), keeping the shock level around 100, and treating the the filter through the skimmer with around 8-12 oz of floc.

Also, I tend to put the pool to bed at the end of the season with a high level of hydrogen peroxide (150-250ppm) -- this works out as a happy pool with clear water when I take off the cover in the springtime... after I drain approximately 20% of the water, which does give me some water change each year.

This year, when I picked up my supplies, they "gave" me a "free" bottle of sand filter cleaner; I said "what is this for?". Apparently, Baquacil is trying to get people to start cleaning the sand to head off the kinds of complaints that I've seen posted here. As I pondered this, it finally sank in that the dealer had told me all along to change my sand at least two times a season -- which, of course, solves the problem in a different way. This stuff apparently eats / dissolves this crud in the filter through strong acid action; you then flush out the acid onto the ground somewhere where you have put baking soda to neutralize the acid. Which means that I don't have to pull apart my filter and figure out how to get the sand out more than every couple or three years. Worth a try.

SO for the next couple of seasons, I'm going to use the following protocol:

1) keep the water chemistry in shape (check weekly, or after major storms that dump several inches of water).
2) keep the sanitizer, algecide and shock levels in line.
3) clean the sand filter chemically about every 6 weeks of operation;
4) raise the shock level to 150-250 before closing for the winter.

Currently, I'm using the Taylor Biguanide and Hydrogen Peroxide Test Kit (K-1725) along with the dealer's water testing.

KurtV
07-24-2006, 04:52 PM
Baq,
Glad it's working out for you so far.

One alternative you might consider is a saltwater chlorinator. It would probably save you money over Baquacil (probably not the case for a bleach user considering an SWG) and would certainly save you time and effort.

DavidD
07-24-2006, 05:01 PM
baq,

Welcome to the forum! That is great and I seriously doubt anyone will tell you that you are wrong in using Baquacil. While most of us here are on or have switched to chlorine, most can and respect your decision to stay with the baq. However, the limited experience I have with Baquacil tells me you are definately misinformed when you say "I chose to stick with Baquacil because I didn't want to manage it so carefully" as this is most certainly not the case. I assure you it is far easier and cheaper to use chlorine yet I understand most peoples reasoning for initially wanting the Baquacil. Stick around and maybe you can help others who need help in operating a successful Baquacil pool.

Dave

surfacefeeder
07-24-2006, 05:55 PM
I had baq for 4 years and changed my sand every year and used the sand filter cleaner midway through each season. I dont know where water mold comes form but I dont have to worry about it anymore. I also dont have to double shock my 27 ag pool at the rate of 75 bucks every 3 weeks either.

I watched it like a hawk, always had the proper levels of chemicals and grew more and more frustrated each year and thats how I found this site just over a week ago. My conversion is complete and couldnt be happier.

I think that if you are to sensitive to chlorine its the only way to go. Put you will pay extra for that comfort.

Good Luck
Chris

Watermom
07-24-2006, 10:45 PM
A lot of people are happy with baq for the first few seasons and then they begin to have major problems which equate to major $$$. I hope you have continued success with it.

CarlD
07-24-2006, 11:12 PM
There is nothing I hate worse than someone telling something I'm doing can't possibly be working when it is, or that I GOTTA switch to whatever they are selling.

Annoys the heck out of me.

If you've got Bacquacil licked and are happy with it and your pool is clean and sanitary, then don't let ANYONE tell you that you have to change. Enjoy.

But on the other hand you should know that using the methods of pool care advocated here, you won't do much work either. My fellow mods, Poconos and Watermom were over on Sunday and they can tell you that my pool is crystal clear and the water is clean. And I do VERY little work. I spend lots more time writing about pool care than I spend doing it.

But as long as you've got your pool the way you like it, go with it!

ILHoz
07-25-2006, 06:57 AM
I have just made the switch from baqua to chlorine. We were very happy with Baqua for a couple of years. then we started battling white mold and spending a lot of money. From all of the information I can find white mold is enviromental which means we would continue to battle this problem spending $$$ and not being able to use our pool. We choose chlorine, If Baqua is working for you, thats great continue to use it and be happy. With Baqua we were not happy!:(
Leslie

clayw1963
07-25-2006, 08:44 AM
I am glad that Baquacil works for you. I used it for a year with no problems.
I opened the pool this year with no problems. Then I developed an algae problem, then water mold, and then cloudy water that would not clear up.
I checked all of my levels as I was supposed to, had 2 cartridge filters, that I changed out monthly, brushed the pool every week, etc. etc. and still had problems.
I am new to the BBB method (2 weeks now), but I spend MUCH less time on the pool than I did with Baquacil. I check my ph and chlorine levels each evening, other levels once a week. Put the pool cleaner in as needed and the water has never been so clear. Someone came over this past Sunday and said "oh your pool just sparkles".....the first time I've ever heard that comment about my pool!

ccr-n-ia
07-28-2006, 09:59 AM
I DO have an interesting issue though, that I've not been able to figure out - but I assume these symptoms are related.

1. We have a strange metallic / somewhat bitter / slightly nasty taste in the water.
2. All of our eyes are irritated after 15-30 minutes of swimming in the water (blood-shot eyes, stinging sensation).
3. Our throats and sinuses are irritated if we accidentally inhale choke on the water. Also, I smell the strange smell /taste of the water in my nose and sinuses for several hours after I swim. Last night, I got water up my nose; the burning in my throat and sinuses was so unpleasant, I almost quit right then and there, except that I was too miserable to do anything for several minutes.

I’ve had our local pool dealer test the water repeatedly; all chemical balances are comfortably within range.

I’m pondering if any of the following have any bearing:

- it has been hot, and our pool is heating up to 90 degrees

- I saw a small comment somewhere that suggested that biguanide chemicals build up over time and creates a bad taste (recommending that the pool be 40-60% drained each year – I drain mine 20-25% each year)

- The water is pretty foamy for 10-15 seconds when we jump in and make a big splash


If it were just one of us, I would assume some special sensitivity. But all of my family agree on the problems – but I get pushback saying that chlorine has a smell and eye irritation also. But I thought that Baquacil wasn’t supposed to have these problems!

I'm wondering where can I go to have my water tested to figure out what the problem is? The pool dealer that we are working with has a good local reputation, but they only take it to the first level of testing (standard stuff).

I'm also curious if the taste / irritated eyes are an early indicator of other issues soon to appear that so many others here have testified to - I'm almost convinced to convert to chlorine just because of the certainty of so many others who have done this and are now so glad. You all make it sound so easy... and I thought Baquacil was the easiest.

Watermom
07-28-2006, 10:12 AM
I'm almost convinced to convert to chlorine just because of the certainty of so many others who have done this and are now so glad. You all make it sound so easy...

Not to mention that using bleach instead of baq is SO much cheaper!

duraleigh
07-28-2006, 10:12 AM
Yeah, somethings up with your water. You should not have that unpleasant experience. Go to another pool store that will give you (not test strips) good test results for FC, CC, pH, Alk. Those results posted here may give a clue. Keep reading the "baq" forum.....lot's of really happy (and richer) people there that have swithched to chlorine.

CarlD
07-28-2006, 11:10 AM
If you are having a burning sensation, bad taste, foaming, skin irritation, BAD throat irritation, then you are NOT having success with Bacquacil.

Something is very, VERY wrong with your water and I would strongly advise you not to swim in your pool until it is cleared up.

Your pH may be badly out of balance, or something is not being metabolized.

I just got chills thinking about you swimming in it.

Yeah, chlorine is easy. Once you have everything balanced, if you dump a gallon, more or less, depending on your pool, every other day.

When/if we go away, I find the EASIEST instructions I can give to anyone watching my pool is to dump in 1 gallon of bleach into the skimmer every other day. I come home to a perfect pool everytime, even after two weeks. How much easier can maintenance be than that?

(I DO tell them to turn on the hose if the water level is low, too. And I have an automatic overflow to keep it from getting too full.)

clayw1963
07-28-2006, 03:21 PM
we also had a bad smell/taste and burning red eyes, which is another reason we switched to the BBB method. Our pool store said the same thing, the water was in balance. We never did find out what it was.

surfacefeeder
07-29-2006, 02:14 AM
What is the level of your peroxide (shock) to much of that is can give you those symptoms.


Chris

ccr-n-ia
07-30-2006, 07:36 AM
So first I say that I'm having good success with Baq, except for a couple of bumps with water mold.

Then I admit that my water - sparkling clean and beautiful as can possibly be - irritates our eyes and noses

So I go to my normal pool store - they test the water, it is perfect. No answers, no help, no interest. I go to the OTHER pool store - Central Iowa Pool and Spa in Des Moines, they test the water, it is perfect. But they try harder - they call the manufacturer, but still no ideas. But they have three people working on this problem and they aren't going to rest until they figure this one out. I ask if others are going through shock (hydrogen peroxide) this season. She nods, and asks if I am. I tell her no, I haven't put any in this season, because I put a lot in in the fall and when the store tested the water when I opened, I didn't need to add any. As of now, I am still very good, according to ALL of the tests (two pool stores, plus two separate test kits that I own).

Her face lights up; she tells me to add the shock anyway. I go home and add two gallons of shock. This AM, the bad taste is mostly gone and no one gets irritated eyes. Tonight, the taste is all gone - the water tastes just like my tap water, and we have only very slight irritation, which could be due to the fact that my pH is slightly to the high side.

Lesson? If bad taste and irritated eyes, add shock immediately and IGNORE the test results. But if this is the case, then what is the value of the tests anyway???

Which also causes me to wonder - if the tests show that there is enough but the tests are wrong - then is that possibly the reason that so many folks have problems with Baquacil? Typically, I have always keep my shock much higher than the tests call for - and typically, I don't have the problems that others report.

I'm not a chemistry guy, but I thought I remember that when H2O2 decomposes, it breaks down essentially into water. I'm not sure what the test kits are measuring, but it appears that they are measuring some element of the shock that is essentially ineffective as an oxidizer. But is H202 still H202 if it isn't effective anymore?

waterbear
07-30-2006, 01:08 PM
First I want to say that I am only a little familiar with biguanide chemistry but I suspect a few things...Have you been putting in the algaecide? Linerar quats are the only kind of algaecide that can be used with biguanide and they can cause all the symptoms that you describe. Linear quats are also destroyed by oxidizers, whether chlorine, MPS, H2O2, or sodium percarbonate. H2O2 does decompose to water and oxygen but you have to realize that you are dosing your pool wil H2O2 that is as concentrated as the stuff used for rocket fuel! I don't know how your pool store is testing for it but if they are using a drop based kit for H2O2 such as one from Taylor (K-1725) then the results should be accurate. If they are not then who knows what they are measuring!

ccr-n-ia
08-01-2006, 01:05 PM
...Have you been putting in the algaecide?

...I don't know how your pool store is testing for it but if they are using a drop based kit for H2O2 such as one from Taylor (K-1725) then the results should be accurate.

I put the algaecide in each week as normal.

I don't know what each of the pool stores uses for test kits, but here are the shock level results from all 4 of the tests:
- My LaMott test kit: 150 (drops-based)
- My Taylor test kit: 35 (drops-based)
- First pool store: 127
- second pool store: 45

There seems to be two different methods for calculating hydrogen peroxide shock level. Still, all tests agreed that the shock level was adequate.

Gizmobyte
08-05-2006, 05:11 PM
"DO have an interesting issue though, that I've not been able to figure out - but I assume these symptoms are related.

1. We have a strange metallic / somewhat bitter / slightly nasty taste in the water.
2. All of our eyes are irritated after 15-30 minutes of swimming in the water (blood-shot eyes, stinging sensation).
3. Our throats and sinuses are irritated if we accidentally inhale choke on the water. Also, I smell the strange smell /taste of the water in my nose and sinuses for several hours after I swim. Last night, I got water up my nose; the burning in my throat and sinuses was so unpleasant, I almost quit right then and there, except that I was too miserable to do anything for several minutes."

Hi Baq-n-ia,

We've been running baqacil for 3 years now and for the most part its been staying clear also but we also get the same symptoms, bad taste, eye irritation after 1/2 hour. Our pool is an 18' round with a dome cover so it says pretty clean as far as debris goes. I've only been adding the 1/2 gallon sanitizer and algistat when the water starts getting some algae forming as I thought the taste was from too much of this stuff. Also adding the gallon of oxidizer about once a month. I confess I don't maintain it much. The chemical test strips are very inaccurate as they have a limited shelf live and the local pool's test results vary way too much for me to have any confidence in their results.

I read in your later posts about adding shock which cleared up the taste and burning eyes. This was the issue that brought me here as I was consideriing switching to chlorine. Can you tell me what the name of it is and where it can be purchased?

Btw - I haven't changed my sand at all but did run a bottle of sand cleaner through the filter a year or two ago. Also, when the pool gets hazy, a capful of flucculant helps bind the smaller particles so the filter can remove it.

Patrick

mariner09
08-07-2006, 03:37 PM
Interesting how the pool stores all claim what a rough summer it's been.

I use SoftSwim and the amount of money I've spent on C, the hydrogen peroxide, has been craxy. For a 15000 gallon pool, they tell you about 2 gallons a month and I've been pouring in 2 gallons a week.

The store was out this weekend and one of the boys came out of the pool with such red eyes, I felt bad for him. I drove almost 50 miles to get some more to add before the weekend was out.

With a month and a half left in the season, I'm just going to ride it out and think about making a switch for next season.

They said it was a little more expensive, but this is crazy.

Tom C
08-07-2006, 07:19 PM
I think the ordor/taste/faom issue is likely due to too much algecide. I notice the same things right after adding the algecides (standard and performance). Since the agecide is added on a weekly basis, the levels may be building up too high.

I noticed that when I kept my H2O2 levels high I could not maintain a good sanatizer level without great expense. I believe the H2O2 decomposes the sanatizer.

ShelleyAnn
08-08-2006, 09:00 PM
When I was a surfer (long time ago) the saying went "end your day on a great wave". I can't think of anything better than ending your season on 2 or 3 great weeks of crystal clear, non-irritating, non-foaming, pure water for the trade off of 3-5 days of conversion.

Shelley

ccr-n-ia
05-30-2007, 08:52 PM
I'm doing it. I'm coming up on 24 hours into my conversion to CL. I left the pool open and unattended over the winter. Wow, was it dirty. But apparently the BAQ crap was pretty much gone, because the pool appears to be almost converted. The water is only slightly green now and CL is hanging in there. 17K gal, used only 24 gal of 6% so far.

Why did I do it after claiming good success with BAQ? Mostly because I didn't like the approach of the pool stores, and because I like to experiment (sick mind).

But really, the claims of all of the others about the great success of the BBB approach satisfied me that it was worth a try. And if I don't like CL, I can convert back to BAQ (I hear laughter from future readers who have already switched to CL and liked it).

I wanted to use SGW, but I have a AG pool, SGW not recommeded I guess.

So now I'm configuring a simple tank / pump / timer to squirt 6% in once in a while.

mariner09
05-30-2007, 09:23 PM
I took your approach and let it go at the end of the season.

So far, I'm on day 3 using about 18 gallons. I'm only losing about 3ppm overnight, but the daytime loss is huge.

I have filter cartridges, so it's very difficult to keep up good pump pressure after about 20 minutes.

A ton of vaccuming along with it. I'm hoping to be done by the weekend, we'll see...

waterbear
05-30-2007, 10:22 PM
I wanted to use SGW, but I have a AG pool, SGW not recommeded I guess.

So now I'm configuring a simple tank / pump / timer to squirt 6% in once in a while.

Not true! Goldline Controls makes 4 units specifically for above ground pools. Go to their website and look at the AquaTrol units.