Chlorine Enhancer ???

[mandylee]

Hello,
We recently bought a home with a 12,000 gallon pool. So far I have not had any problems and I thought I was doing a fairly good job maintaining it. Recently the water was looking cloudy and I noticed what looked like some algae around the edges. It was only a little bit. I took a sample of water the the pool store and they said all my levels were within normal range. They did sell me a chlorine enhancer which is supposed to aid in the control of algae. Well I used it that day and shocked. This was about a week and a half ago and ever since then the chlorine level on strips and drops has been zero. I have shocked several times but it doesn't seem to lock the chlorine in. The water is still cloudy, it comes and goes. Some days it is not as cloudy as others. I also live in Tucson, AZ and right now it is Monsoon season. Lots of rain and wind. Could the weather be contributing? I thought you might be able to help with the chlorine enhancer situation because on the websites Tips actually tip # 44 is says if you've used one of these products and your chlorine has gone AWOL to e mail. So here I am. Please help. Thanks.
Mandy

[aylad]

Hi Mandy,

Chances are good that the chlorine enhancer they sold you was bromine, MPS, or a non-chlorine shock, so now the chlorine you're putting in the pool is fighting the enhancer, not the problem. The only chorine enhancer you need is more chlorine.

If you will please post test results taken with a DROP-BASED kit for Cl, CYA, pH, TA, I'm sure we can help you get your pool clear. Chances are very good that you just have a very high stabilizer level and haven't gotten your Cl up high enough to take care of the algae, but we need to see the numbers to give you any real help. Also, I'm moving this post to the Chlorine forum so you'll get more responses and views.

Welcome to the forum!

Janet

[waterbear]

What is the name of the product you used? It probably contains either inorganic ammonia or sodium bromide. The inorganic ammonia will form monochoramine in the pool, which is effective at killing alage but very short lived. You will have a high chlorine demand until the ammonia is burned off. Keep shocking until your chlorine levels are holding.
If it was sodium bromide it has temporarily converted your chlorine pool to a bromine pool. Bromamines are effective at killing algae also but you will have a huge chlorine demand until all the bromine is gone...once again, keep shocking until your chlorine is holding.

In either case you might need a lot of chlorine and you might need to be adding it a minimum of morning and night (3 times a day is better) to get rid of the ammonia or bromine.

Neither one of these types of products are really necessary for killing algae. All you need is chlorine and POP (Pool Owner Patience).

IMHO, sodium bromide has a place in very special circumstances but should not be used as a first line of attack against algae. Can't comment on the inorganic ammonia ones since I have no experience with them. If you want to use an algecide in conjucntion with chlorine then use Polyquat 60 (a type of algecide, not a brand) and nothing else!

[mandylee]

WOW thank you so much for replying to quickly. I just checked my levels and they were Cl .5 pH 7.5 TA 160 and I am out of drops to test for CYA. A week and a half ago at the pool store they said the CYA was normal.
The product I used is called Green to Clean and it lists the active ingredient as disodiumsalt of ethylendiaminetraaceticiddihydrate,diammonium sulfate
So you think the pool may still be cloudy because of the algae growth. I really can't see any algae at all anymore. But the water is very cloudy I can't even see the main drain on the bottom at 8 ft down. Do you think monsoon season may have anything to do with it?

[aylad]

I doubt the monsoon season has anything to do with it, unless it's dumping lots of stuff in your pool, or it's adding a lot more water and effectively diluting your chlorine--you need to be extra careful about keeping your Cl up during those rainy seasons.

There is no "normal" CYA level at a pool store--if you ask them the appropriate range, they'll tell you it's 20-200. That's a HUGE difference in Cl levels required. However, I can tell you that Cl of .5 isn't high enough, even with a low CYA level. I'm assuming your pool is vinyl liner--I would go ahead and shock the pool, using bleach, to 10 ppm while you're getting an accurate CYA reading. From there, we can adjust your Cl as necessary to get your pool cleared up. I wold also keep the filter running until it clears, and DONT put any more of the algaecide in it!

Janet

[waterbear]

You have used an ammonia based algecide. The pool is probably cloudy beause either you have not killed all the algae or there is dead algae in the water. In either case you need to get the pool to shock level and keep it there until your chlorine is holding overnight. How high you need to bring the chlorine level up depends on your CYA level. See this chart
http://www.poolforum.com/pf2/showthread.php?t=365

There is no such thing as a 'normal' cya level. The recommended level for a manually chlorinated pool is 30-50 ppm. Some pool stores seem to think that levels as high as 200 ppm are ok! (they are NOT). You really need to either post your last test results for CYA or get a new set of tests and post them and we will be able to help you clear your pool!

[mandylee]

Okay I will shock the pool. What kind of bleach? Household bleach. I always buy those 1 lb bags of shock. Also, the pool is plaster. Is is silly to take my water in to the pool store? I need to get a reading for CYA. It seems like they try and sell you stuff you don't need. Also, is it better to shock at night?
Thanks
Mandy

[mandylee]

When adding bleach to the pool should you add it in the deepest end, around the edges, the whole pool surface ????? I've never used bleach and I am not sure how to go about it? How soon afterwards should I check my FC level? I can't believe I've been spending so much on bags of shock when I can use bleach! Should I still use chlorine tablets in the floater???

[aylad]

Yes, we're talking about household bleach, but it needs to be plain, unscented....no added perfumes or "extra whitening ingredients" or anything fancy like that. In a pool your size, 3 cups of 6% bleach will raise your chlorine by 1 ppm. How high you need to go depends on your CYA level, which you need to test for. A pool store can test for it, but make sure they're not using strips--make sure they're using the liquid reagents. It isn't silly to go to the pool store for testing, as long as you don't buy any of the chemicals they try to sell you, right off the bat. For example, pool stores worldwide will convince people that their calcium is WAY too low and they must add some RIGHT NOW!!! but calcium is irrelevant in a vinyl pool. Or they'll try to insist you need to buy 4-5 pounds of alkalinity up, which is the exact same thing as Arm & Hammer baking soda at 5 x the price. So....I strongly encourage you to invest in a good, drop-based test kit and forget the pool store. Taylor carries a good one, but most of us use the one sold by the owner of this site. Cost is $70, but it will test for most anything you need, and pay for itself over and over again in the first year. It'll also keep you from getting "pool-stored"!! :)

Since you referred to the tabs, I'm guessing you've been chlorinating with trichlor, which confirms my suspicion that your CYA is way too high--but have it tested anyway and post back. And when you add bleach to the pool, you can either walk around the perimeter and stir as you pour, or pour it directly into the return stream, it doesn't matter--just make sure it doesn't collect as a "hot spot" around th edges of your liner. It is better to shock at night, so the sun gets as little of your chlorine as possible, and I would stop using the pucks for now until we have a good CYA number.

Janet

[mandylee]

Janet-
Thanks for the info and for being so kind. I am on my way to the store to buy more CYA reagent.I have strips and the drop test kits. What a waste of money on the strips! The drops that I have test for total chlorine, bromine, pH, TA, Total hardness and CYA. I am already out of the CYA, but like I said I will buy more. Is there any other tests I should perform? Also going to pick up a couple of jugs of bleach. I will post my CYA results as soon as I get them. Hopefully you will be able to help me determine how much bleach I need.
Thanks again,

[aylad]

Those are all the tests that you need for now. Ignore the scale for bromine, just read the chlorine side. You also probably need to pick up more like 3 or 4 jugs of bleach. Post your numbers, and we'll be glad to help.

Janet

[Watermom]

Good advice by Janet as always! Another way you can add your bleach is to simply pour it slowly into the skimmer. That is what I always do.

[mandylee]

Well I was able to pick up bleach but the pool store is closed already I guess because it's Sunday.:( I tried WalMart, Loes and KMart and no one sells just the CYA reagent. I hate to spend the money for the whole kit when all I need is the CYA. I guess I will wait until tomorrow to test for it. For the time being should I put in some bleach just to be safe??? If so how much? :confused:

[aylad]

Without knowing your CYA level, it's anybody's guess. I'd just wait until tomorrow, get your test kit, test your water, and go from there. Just pouring bleach in at random is wasting bleach.

Janet

[mandylee]

Okay... I finally have my CYA results.

FAC 0
TAC 0
pH 7.6
TA 130
CYA 0

I know I need to add conditioner, but how much. My pool is a 12,000 gallon plaster IG. The water is clear,but green. It's super hot here in Tucson about 105 degrees today. The pool is at 91 degrees. Once I get this all done how much chlorine should I add, how often and do I still need to put tabs in a floater since I am converting to BBB????
Thanks!!!!!!:)

[aylad]

Follow the directions on the label to get your pool to about 20 ppm CYA to start with. Put it in the skimmer, and don't retest for it or backwash for a week, because it takes a long time to dissolve. Add enough bleach to get your Cl to 15 ppm. In a pool your size starting at zero Cl, it should take about 3 gallons to get to 15. YOu'll need to test 2-3 times daily, if possible, and add whatever amount each time it takes to get back up to 15. The more often you test and add, the quicker your pool will clear. Keep your filter running 24/7, and brush daily while you're clearing your pool.
Janet

[mandylee]

Okay, thanks. So do I wait a week, retest and then add the bleach. Or start adding bleach sooner then that? :confused:

[The Raddish]

I'm confused. You've been using the tri-chlor pucks in a floater, yet your CYA is ZERO??

How did you test for you CYA? If you have been using the tri-chlor pucks for any length of time at all, your CYA level should not be zero.

[mandylee]

Raddish-
Was using pucks from WalMart(not sure what kind of chlorine in them).My water starting looking cloudy right before the 4th. I had my water tested at the pool store and all of my levels were good. I can't remeber the exact numbers but all was good. My CYA was fine too.They sold me Green to Clean because I thought I was getting algae. I shocked used the Green to Clean and shocked again with the powder shock. The water was looking better on the 4th. We had a big bbq for the and lots of pool use. The next day the water was very cloudy,bluish-grey. I kept shocking and leaving the filter running and nothing. My chlorine would not keep. The water is not cloudy anymore, but it is green. Yesterday I had the water tested at the same pool store as before and my CYA was zero. I meant to ask does that seem right. How would I lose my CYA so quickly. We did have A LOT of rain, it's Monsoon Season here in Tucson.Would that cause the CYA do totally diminish?